Mike H Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Michelle. Yes I have spoken to Andy, thanks. Shaun. Yes, my clutch was burning and smoking like hell and also juddering like hell when I tried to reverse up a friends' drive. You didn't experience any judder? What revs were you using? Fiat say upwards of 1300 and as high as 3000. But if you are going up a short drive, you don't want to let the clutch right out with revs that high, you're likely to over shoot your drive, into or onto whatever is behind. Mike H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Mike, I don't know what revs I was using, but they would have been quite high. As you say, in order to control speed, the clutch has to be ridden. So, using the clutch as my brake and plenty of revs to actually move up the incline, the van went up without any judder, but with plenty of clutch burn. As I say, though, I had exactly the same stench with a loaded hire van recently. Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Shaun. I would report it the dealer, if the previous owner had problems like you there might not be much clutch left, and you do that every time you come home and park up, the clutch isn't going to last long. Try it with fewer revs and see if it judders. Or take it to a steep hill and then try reversing up that. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 After a further inspection today by our local Clutch Destruction Specialist (Fiat dealer) we managed to make some very interesting smoke signals in the region of Jeffery Hill, in Lancashire. I only allowed the Fiat engineer small short snatches at the hill because they haven't a spare gearbox actually in stock, but he came away desperately impressed by the way a Fiat Ducato can't revsere up a steep hill. For what its worth he reckoned that the ratio may the issue, but like the rest of us he wasn't sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 AndyStothert - 2008-02-20 5:36 PM After a further inspection today by our local Clutch Destruction Specialist (Fiat dealer) we managed to make some very interesting smoke signals in the region of Jeffery Hill, in Lancashire. I only allowed the Fiat engineer small short snatches at the hill because they haven't a spare gearbox actually in stock, but he came away desperately impressed by the way a Fiat Ducato can't reverse up a steep hill. For what its worth he reckoned that the ratio may the issue, but like the rest of us he wasn't sure. Is he paying you for the amount of clutch he uses up trying to prove his point? Is it normal for clutches to have to be burned out to see if new vehicles can ascend hills in reverse gear? If so, that's quite an automotive milestone. Messrs Daimler, Otto and Diesel must be especially gratified by Fiat's achievement! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I'm almost ready to confirm 'no judder'. By way of an update to a few posts ago, I reversed up my drive again today, trying various methods. The only judder experienced was when low revs were used - basically trying to combine tickover and clutch. It was obvious that this would stall the engine and the judder just seemed to be part and parcel of the general protest. Bearing in mind that I was burning the clutch during my first efforts a few days ago, I'm now going to put that down to me using far too high an engine speed. It must have been 3000 plus. Today, I revved to 1250, gently let in the clutch and the van reversed absolutely fine with no judder at all. This doesn't necessarily mean that reversing for a longer distance up a hill would still mean no judder but, importantly from my perspective, at least I don't have to burn the clutch any more when reversing up my drive. That was simply duff technique on my part. Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 Brian, See my post on the other thread. It seems my complainst are like a smoking clutch and disappear on the wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 You were getting lost on page 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 That's what happens when he's let out on his own, he really does neat 'Attilla' at the 'tilla'!!! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 This is just a means of getting Brian's nice and simple chart back up the top as it displays quite simply that Fiat/Peugeot do indeed have a problem which requires addressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 27, 2008 Author Share Posted February 27, 2008 Oh yea! And we now have 28 vehicles entered, of which 26 judder, and 3 don't. Funny that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 Brian, How are the percentage figures arrived at? I've been meaning to ask for weeks but haven't got round to it. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 AndyStothert - 2008-02-27 9:12 PM Brian, How are the percentage figures arrived at? I've been meaning to ask for weeks but haven't got round to it. ? I think you will find they are automaticaly generated by the server, because of the way brian 'constructed' poll they have no meaning in this case i.e. at time of writing there where a total of 58 votes of all sorts so the 6 votes of not juddering are approx 10% of total when if fact should be 6 out of 29 approx 25% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Percentages that have no meaning? By now I think we have all realised that something major is definitey amiss with the new Ducato (and Peugeots), and because potential customers have the right to know about things like this when choosing a new motorhome we (the rather pissed-off owners who have realised how significant this juddering can be) have enlisted the help several more bodies to bring this to a wider audience. We are also going to ask the powers that be at Warners to keep one of these threads as a 'sticky' in the interests of consumer protection. They have refused up until now because it wasn' t considered to be a widespread concern but that refusal is now obviously invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 I know I'm daft or dont understand the best of things, but why no one has wrote about it in MMM for the people that don't chat on here evades me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 michele - 2008-02-28 8:54 PM I know I'm daft or dont understand the best of things, but why no one has wrote about it in MMM for the people that don't chat on here evades me. Because Warners are more afraid of repercussions from Fiat / Peugeot than they are of any from the customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 So what happens if the customers dont buy the mags then ???? Not very nice is it really . If and when we were ready to buy we relied on that MMM if i had read something in their then I would of avoided it like the plaque . Thats why I bought it in the first place thinking oh this mags all about camping cars .I asked the Mods to put this as a sticky weeks ago when Andy first started it I wondered why they didnt . Business is Business but thats not good enough not to tell or warn your readers after all no readers no mag . Yes I know no advertising no mag BUT Ithik warners have the upper hand here I mean why would you not want to advertise your company in the biggest with the biggest following Naughty naughty.... I would of thought that MMM could slate them if they lost their courtship ... I know who I would believe after all isnt that why we buy MMM to keep abreast of new models and stuff ... Just ignore me . How sad to spend your lifes savings retirement money on it only to find out its nothing but hag ....Come on MMM grow some even a little pair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 The best that can be said about an MMM (or any written) road test is that it gives you an idea about whether the layout might suit you or not - and, for me at least, that comes more from the pictures than from the words. I have never, and would never buy any van on the strength of someone else's subjective point of view - especially a journalist who knows that if he is too critical he won't get any more from that maker to test. Hear all, see all, ask all - but take it all with a pinch of salt and trust no body's judgement but your own. Cynicism pays - Caveat Emptor - let the buyer beware! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 It would appear that Warners along with Fiat/Citroen/Pug have shot themselves in the foot over this, since its launch this van must have outsold any other in history of MH's with Warners mags telling how good it is, in the future there may be a lot of very angry owners wanting to know why they where not warned of a known fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Well just lost the lot ..............anyway discussed here again .lately whilst in France I asked a french man if he had problems with water in his new ??? dont ask Yes he replied fxed now at dealership .. My french didnt extend enough to ask about juddering uphill . But Grande problem in France I understood . England I told him many problems . If it happened big time in France there would be a great big blockade and Nickolas Sarkosys is that his name would of postponed his wedding .. and had to attend the dealerships on the day...to get the irate French off the door step ... really sorry for all the people who are stuck with this . # Good luck But I aint holding my breath. Ps would of thought it was the otherway around Colin warners dont need them they need warners MMM the biggest if you cant advertise it that then that should set people wondering why ... Its the one that catches your eye when just coming into this so called wonderful world of M/Homing . sitting on the shelf and for us the first we picked . perhapas there is a market for a real WHICH m/Home warts and all mag . :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 March MMM, p27, "Mike's motorcaravanning month": read and inwardly digest. Somehow, and very quietly, it speaks volumes. It does seek to pour a little oil on the troubled waters, and in the interests of balance, reasonably mentions that not everyone is unhappy with their new van. However, it does mention all the currently known issues, and recalls, including the judder, with photos of an extraordinarily shabby looking engine bay showing the severity of the deterioration caused by the water ingress. Nice work Mr Jago - under difficult circumstances! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abb Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 We are not alone, our French neighbours have started reporting this judder problem. The French magazine Camping-Car February issue no 197 page 33, two letters complaining about the juddering problem one on the new Fiat and the other on Peugeot Boxer! The Fiat based MH had its clutch replaced under warranty but the problem persisted, The Peugeot owner didn’t get any assistance! Both owners WITH THE HELP OF THE EDITOR are appeling to other owners having the same problems to join them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 So zee French, zay are our allies, non? B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyH Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 All to the top at once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 can you imagine French & english all together that would be nice they wouldnt know what hit them they can't just get away with fobbing off people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.