peteS Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Hi all in need of help again. I am at the mo fitting 2 x 110 amp lead acid batteries these fit under the seats and have gone in a treat. Once I have cabled up I also have a Sterling Batt to Batt charger to fit. Whilst researching which charger to get I am sure I read on Sterling's site about fitting this unit that I would need to remove the split charging facility. Now that I have recieved the unit and on reading the destructions there is no mention of removing the split charge. I will ring Sterling to clarify but in the mean time. A) Has anyone else who has fitted this unit removed the split charge facility. B) Does anyone know how on a Hymer van 572 with Elektroblok 99 fitted. C) If removed will this affect the 12v fridge operation (I think not but). As ever many thanks Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Cole Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Hi Pete, I have fitted similar systems mainly on boats. I would leave the split charge relay in place it switches the charge to the leasure battery or in your case your new sterling unit when the voltage reaches 13v and also switches the fridge on, so will islolate your charger when the engine is not running. I am however not sure why you would want to remove the elektrobloc charger as this surely provides the charge on hook up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnsandywhite Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Perhaps this might help:- http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/more-docs/SplitCharge02_files/MainsSplitChargeCircuit01d.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Or perhaps this http://www.motts.dsl.pipex.com/SPLIT%20CHARGING%20SYSTEM.htm Or the piccy below. Fuse sizes and cable sizes depend very much on the size of the Stirling unit and other factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Neither of those links helps in regard as to whether or not the original split charge needs disconnecting. I'm fitting one of these Stirling units on Monday and I see no reason to disconnect the original split charge circuit as it will simply be connected in parallel when the engine is running. One possible reason would be that the Stirling unit "fools" the alternator into producing more current and some of this extra current could be transferred via the original circuit. If it does and the current being transferred via the original circuit is too high then the fuse will blow. I suggest the simplest solution is to just remove the fuse from the original split charge circuit then it can't play any part or interfere with the Stirling unit. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 The Electroblock does a lot more than has been stated so care and knowledge is needed in grafting in a Stirling lump. Is it really necessary for you? Those people who have Sargent 325 systems will already be benefiting from the same technology as provided by the Stirling unit. Thats quite a few of the quality British vans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteS Posted February 2, 2008 Author Share Posted February 2, 2008 Thanks all for the replies, as yet not phoned Sterling about the split charge must do on Monday. I mentioned the Elektroblok because I presumed the split charge was on their and would just need a fuse pulling, perhaps not. Dave I would be interested in your comments after fitting. The only problem I have found so far is the size of it and finding somewhere to site it near the batteries (under cab seats) and still be able to use the seat swivels. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 Hi Pete, yes I'll try to make a full report on Monday evening for you :-D D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 I am struggling trying to get the wiring diagram of the EBL99 down to less that 100K and still remain legible. If anyone wants it please PM me with an email address and I will send the full manual on. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 I'll take a copy of that please Clive, you know the e mail address :-D . Cheers, D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Requested file sent into the blue yonder. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 And received thanks :-D D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteS Posted February 4, 2008 Author Share Posted February 4, 2008 I spoke to Sterling today re: disconnecting split charge relay. The answer I recieved was that if the SCR is left in place then the B2B would not work at it's full capacity. So what to do, leave as is and see how it gets on? Remove SCR and as above? Fit switch in output of SCR so that I can switch in or out as required? I have the remote controller for the B2B which shows the current that is being input to leisure battery. I will first try as is and monitor current, then try without SCR and see what the difference is. If any. I am hoping Dave may have more info. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Hi Pete, well I fitted the Stirling unit (50 Amp version) today in about 4 hours (actual working time, bloody phone kept interrupting me :-D ) in an Autocruise with twin leisure batteries. Most of my time seemed to be taken up with making up the leads to go between all the various components. I used 25mmsq cable with soldered on terminals and the various cables totalled up to 8 and used 7 metres of cable. I fitted midi fuses rated at 60 Amps at the engine and leisure batteries. As the Stirling instructions said to disconnect the original split charge feed I did so by removing the fuse at the engine battery end. This does leave a live cable from the leisure battery but as it is fused at the leisure battery end I see no reason to bother removing it. Once installed I checked the system with a clip on type ammeter on the feed cable to the Stirling unit and with the engine ticking over it showed 50 Amps being drawn. The unit also includes two temperature sensors, one for the alternator and one for the leisure battery(ies). I didn't fit the alternator sensor because the cable supplied wasn't long enough but the battery sensor simply bolts to one of the battery terminals. The customer has agreed to let me know if it solves their power requirements. Hope this helps, D. P.S. I had intended taking a few photos of the installation but time got the better of me. P.P.S. I almost forgot to say that its best to fit an earth cable to the negative post of the leisure battery(ies) that is the same thickness as the supplying cable from the Stirling unit, this is why I had to makwe up eight cables. One from engine batt to fuse block, two from fuse bolck to Stirling unit, three from Stirling unit to leisure batt fuse block, four from fuse block to leisure batt 1, five from Stirling unit to earth, six from leisure batt 1 to leisure batt 2 (pos to pos), seven from leisure batt 1 to leisure batt 2 (neg to neg), eight from leisure batt 2 to earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I sourced a 100 amp contactor for one person to use as a split charge relay in conjunction with a Stirling unit. Both contactor and cables were from the battery electric fork lift truck spares bucket! C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I don't understand why you sourced a contactor for a split charge system to run in conjunction with a Stirling B2B unit Clive. The Stirling unit does everything automatically and Stirling's own instruction is to disconnect the original split charge circuit. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteS Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 Thanks Dave for the write up. Pretty much what I have done. I found the fitting very easy just needed to measure up for the cabling then put it all together. You say it was drawing 50 amps but was that being put in to the leisure battery. When I start mine up and it has settled the display tells me that it will start charging after X amount of minutes. This varies between 180 and 240+. This is why I thought of having the split charge relay switchable so that I could have it charging via SCR untill B2B was ready to do it's stuff. I will say that at this time I have not been out for any kind of a run in the van since fitting. Therefore the times I am seeing before charging will start may be a false reading because the van is only on tick over. Must get it out on the road to try. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Hi Pete, the one I fitted yesterday showed 50 Amps being drawn from the engine battery (clip on ammeter attached to the new feed cable from the engine battery to the Stirling) it also showed 50 Amps when clipped onto the feed from the Stirling to the leisure battery so I assume it was going into the leisure battery. These tests were done within a minute or so of starting the engine and the solar panel display showed the leisure battery voltage climbing rapidly. I thought this was quite impressive with the engine only ticking over. I see no need to complicate the system by adding a switchable SCR. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Its easy Dave, This MH owner wanted the 25mm sq cable and big contactor because he wanted to use it with or without the stirling lump. There was a change over arrangement installed. The standard split charging system worked so much better and at much higher charge currents with 25mm sq cable and a chunky contactor. Makes you ask why get a Stirling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 It would certainly make me ask why the "customer" wanted to do it this way. If you payed £175 for a piece of equipment to do a particular job why bother installing an alternative version alongside? The heavy contactor and cable will not perform the same as the Stirling anyway as the alternator's output might start high but very soon tails off to a low current. The Stirling unit "fools" the alternator into producing up to 50 Amps (in the case of the one I fitted) constantly for a fixed period, it then shuts down and checks the battery(ies) before re starting if required. Plus it is a full four stage charging unit so can get the batteries close to a full charge faster than a simple relay (however big the contactors and cable) can, that's the whole point of it. By the way Pete, when you finally make the connections be aware that you may get a spark with the final connection to each battery. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Well Dave, I was only asked to source the contactor and some pre-terminated cables. The person who has this kit is a senior civil servant and scientist based at Portan Down. he did his own instalation to his own spec. Personally I prefer the KISS principle, something that I can repair if it goes wrong when abroad in the middle of nowwhere. Technology is fine - as long as you don,t have to rely on it. Now there,s a statment to get challenged!.....Over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 No challenge from me Clive. The KISS principle has worked well for me for years, as being a simple geezer I can only fix what I understand. So as well as being fixable KISS has the unquestionable advantage of being VFM as well. I am a little confused - nothing new there then! A little knowledge is dangerous and so am I when so armed - but I get the impression from your threads that if I replace the vehicle battery to leisure battery charging wiring with much thicker cable there will be less voltage drop and therefore a better than 10 amp charge going from alternator to leisure battery? Can it really be that simple? Often when something sounds too good and too simple to be true - it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Rich, To get the best out of a conventional split charge arrangement then do the following :- 1 Use THICK cable. Dave used 25mmsq cable. So do I, even 35mm sq sometimes if its handy already terminated and the right length.2 Use BIG fuses to protect the BIG cable. 25mm sq cable is amply protected with a 200 amp fuse. (Use a smaller fuse for the take off for the van to suit the size of outgoing cable)3 Make sure you use the same THICK cable for the leisure battery chassis connection.4 Make the pick up point for the split charging the ALTERNATOR B+ TERMINAL and not the starter battery positive. (Otherwise the volt drop in the outgoing cable between the alternator and starter battery because of the starter battery charging current is on top of everything else associated with the leisure battery)5 As you will see some big currents during initial charging, especially after wild camping for a couple of days you also need a BIG split charge relay to handle the current. 50 amp automotive relays are available but I prefer a contactor from Albright Engineers http://www.albright.co.uk/ Stud connections etc.6 Keep all the lead lengths as short as possible. 7 Keep your nuts tight! Its not about current ratings but it is all about minimising voltage drop, very important when you only have 14 to start with. Good luck C. Last thought, cable and fuses can be sourced from welding supplies shops or fork lift truck repairers. If you can, measure up first and get the outlet to terminate the cables for you using a commercial hydraulic crimper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Thanks for that Clive. Very enlightening. It is hard to believe that in a modern Motorhome so much aggravation with inadequate charging and poor leisore battery capacity off site can be solved as simply as a length of cable and a relay. In terms of manufacturing costs it must only be pennies per van so why do they do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteS Posted February 6, 2008 Author Share Posted February 6, 2008 By the way Pete, when you finally make the connections be aware that you may get a spark with the final connection to each battery. Thanks Dave been there, done that. My multimeter will only measure upto 10 amps, so better not use that then. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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