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Is the UK going Mad.


Hymer C 9.

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I don't know if it is me but I have to look at the date on the paper sometimes to make sure its not April fool's day. This news item for me took the biscit.

 

The Commision on Integration and Cohesion have taken 10 months to come up with the following advice to emigrants to the uk.

 

1. Put rubbish in bins.

2. Dont drink and drive

3 Dont drop litter

4 Make sure you send your children to school

5. Dont touch people

6. Dont play loud music

7 Avoid spitting in the street

8. Respect the Law

9 Get a licence to go fishing.

 

It has now got to go for futher consoltation before it is passed. how much is this going to all cost. When old people are struggling to live and the cost of living going up, how can it possibly justify the amount of money it has cost to come up with what is common sence, then have to print theses wellcome packs in different languages else the will be no good anyway. Think I'll shut up now before my blood pressure goes up. Carol.

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You don't need a license to fish in the sea or in tidal rivers - yet - but only as long as you only fish for sea fish and not salmon or sea trout!
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I've just been to their website and have looked at all the source documents, rather than relying on the "Red-Top" gutter press report - which once you have read the actual source material turns out (once again) to be complete bulls**t.

 

Form what I read there, it is perfectly clear that the 8 page document is an information pack for Local Authorites, not for immigrants themselves.

 

It is aimed to advise Local Authorities on the types and sort of information and guidance that they should consider telling new immigrants who come to live from abroad in their communities - so that those immigrants understand more about the laws, rules of behaviour, and social responsibilities of living in England; and are encouraged to integrate rather than staying in only the company of fellow-immigrants and risking the "ghetto" type of sub-culture that English people often complain about.

 

Personally, having read the whole 8 page final draft document I thought it to be excellent advice to Local Authorities on what they should themselves consider including in advice to and information for overseas immigrants.

 

It includes sections on laws particular to England that Immigrants may not be aware or; social behavioural norms of most English people that Immigrants should copy; their responsibilities as citizens and as neighbours, the importance of learning fluent English, etc etc etc.

 

It might be useful for others to read the actual document: here's a link:

 

http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/communities/newmigrantsinformation

 

Simply go to the web page and download the booklet as a pdf file.

 

I think the Commission should be commended for the stuff they are trying to ensure that Local Authorities to inform Immigrants about, so that those people are helped and encouraged to be good citizens; and not to upset indigenous people by not realising the social norms and customs that prevail in England.

 

 

All of the advice in that document could be I suspect be usefully disseminated to massive and still increasing numbers of English people, who now behave as though it is OK to spit in the street, make loud noise late at night, do not help and look after their neighbours, push in to queues, ignore No Parking and Disabled Parking Only signs, obey all laws, learn to speak and write fluent English, take responsibility for the behaviour of their children, throw their litter on the street instead of using bins, etc etc.........but maybe even though the Commission wants Local Authorities to instruct all new-comers to England about these things, perhaps they aren't observed as social norms of behaviour within the indigenous population any more.

 

 

 

 

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See what I mean they have taken 10 months on this report and have not got the facts right, the amount of money wasted on these things is wrong. Carol. (Trackers post about the fishing).

 

This has crossed with Bruces post, although the sourse I found it was a BBC bullitin and not a Red Top, it did say it was doing information packs for all new imigrants. Advice yes but the cost of all this in so many ways is draining the money left for so many other thing in the UK. Carol.

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Carol - do please have a look at the source document.....

 

So far as I can tell the history of it, the Commission is conscious that a lot of English people are getting poissed off at the behaviour of some overseas immigrant who settle here, so opened a consultation to enable English people to come up with things that thet think foreign immingrants should be told when they arrive.

 

And now the Commission is taking those suggestions and telling Local Authorities that these are the sorts of things they shoudd inform overseas immigrants about, so that they settle an integrate better and don't piss of English peopl;e due toi ignorance about particular laws/custons in England.

 

I think that's a good use of money, if it reduces mistakes, laws broken etc, it'll save a helluva lot more money in the long run.

And it's actually English people who came up with the suggested list of information.

Have a look at the list in the actual document.

 

Consider that alternative: the Local Authority tells a new resident family nothing. Nothing at all.

That family has fled from a torturous regime in Africa......how the hell are they supposed to integrate and become good law abiding citizens, working and paying taxes, and not offending the indigenous people, if you don't tell them about what the rules of the game are in English society?

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Bruce

 

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Hymer C 9. - 2008-02-04 1:10 PM

 

I don't know if it is me but I have to look at the date on the paper sometimes to make sure its not April fool's day. This news item for me took the biscit.

 

The Commision on Integration and Cohesion have taken 10 months to come up with the following advice to emigrants to the uk.

 

1. Put rubbish in bins.

2. Dont drink and drive

3 Dont drop litter

4 Make sure you send your children to school

5. Dont touch people

6. Dont play loud music

7 Avoid spitting in the street

8. Respect the Law

9 Get a licence to go fishing.

 

It has now got to go for futher consoltation before it is passed. how much is this going to all cost. When old people are struggling to live and the cost of living going up, how can it possibly justify the amount of money it has cost to come up with what is common sence, then have to print theses wellcome packs in different languages else the will be no good anyway. Think I'll shut up now before my blood pressure goes up. Carol.

 

 

I think they need to give this advice to a lot of the people who reside here now.With reference especially to No.!. Drove along the A34 the other day, have never seen so much rubbish roadside as there is between Newbury and Andover. Mind you the other 8 on your list apply to locals as well

 

 

Mick H.

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Mick H. - 2008-02-04 4:05 PM

 

I think they need to give this advice to a lot of the people who reside here now.With reference especially to No.!. Drove along the A34 the other day, have never seen so much rubbish roadside as there is between Newbury and Andover. Mind you the other 8 on your list apply to locals as well

 

Mick H.

 

I hope you don't have a school and a leisure centre close to where you live.

 

We do and the crisp packet, sweet wrappers, beer cans, cider bottles, fag packets and general snack litter and broken glass every day is a bloody disgrace.

 

But we must not say anything in case it infringes the kid's human rights!

 

Rant over!

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Tracker - 2008-02-04 4:34 PM

 

Mick H. - 2008-02-04 4:05 PM

 

I think they need to give this advice to a lot of the people who reside here now.With reference especially to No.!. Drove along the A34 the other day, have never seen so much rubbish roadside as there is between Newbury and Andover. Mind you the other 8 on your list apply to locals as well

 

Mick H.

 

I hope you don't have a school and a leisure centre close to where you live.

 

We do and the crisp packet, sweet wrappers, beer cans, cider bottles, fag packets and general snack litter and broken glass every day is a bloody disgrace.

 

But we must not say anything in case it infringes the kid's human rights!

 

Rant over!

 

 

I dont think its kids on the A34.

 

 

Mick H.

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Mick H. - 2008-02-04 5:00 PM

 

I dont think its kids on the A34.

 

Mick H.

 

18 year olds driving Citroen Saxos with expensive alloy wheels, a straight through exhaust and blackened out windows can hardly be called adults as they follow on from where they left off at school by depositing litter at 70 mph on the roads instead of walking pace on the footpaths!

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BGD - 2008-02-04 3:22 PM

 

Carol - do please have a look at the source document.....

 

So far as I can tell the history of it, the Commission is conscious that a lot of English people are getting poissed off at the behaviour of some overseas immigrant who settle here, so opened a consultation to enable English people to come up with things that thet think foreign immingrants should be told when they arrive.

 

And now the Commission is taking those suggestions and telling Local Authorities that these are the sorts of things they shoudd inform overseas immigrants about, so that they settle an integrate better and don't piss of English peopl;e due toi ignorance about particular laws/custons in England.

 

I think that's a good use of money, if it reduces mistakes, laws broken etc, it'll save a helluva lot more money in the long run.

And it's actually English people who came up with the suggested list of information.

Have a look at the list in the actual document.

 

Consider that alternative: the Local Authority tells a new resident family nothing. Nothing at all.

That family has fled from a torturous regime in Africa......how the hell are they supposed to integrate and become good law abiding citizens, working and paying taxes, and not offending the indigenous people, if you don't tell them about what the rules of the game are in English society?

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Bruce

thats ok bruce if it,s applied across the eu to all it,s citizens.

 

when you moved to spain were you given the same advice or if you transgressed against a unknown local law, as happens, to a lot of british people, especially on the road, given a on the spot fine

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I'm sorry Al, I'm probably being thick, but I can't make head nor tail of what you're trying to say there.

 

Are you saying that Local Authorities in England shouldn't give advice to people who come to live in their county/city from abroad, unless and until every other Local Authority throughout the entire EU does exactly the same?

 

That they should do nothing, and stop those people having a helping hand to understand their responsibilities in the UK so that they can better integrate, and so you have less to complain about them for?

Would you rather those people lived on benefits, in ghettos, practicing only social behaviours prevalent in the countries from whence they fled?

 

Or would you rather they adopted "English" behaviours and customs, and obeyed "English" rules of behaviour, and learned to speak and write English fluently-so that they could get jobs, pay taxes and contribute to UK plc.

 

This isn't an EU pan-Eureopean policy issue.

This is an issue for individual Local Authorities in England and Wales.

 

 

 

I know which I would rather have.

Strikes me that it's a damn good financial investment to give them a kick-start (advice and information) so that they are encouraged from the outset to become more integrated into their wider communities.

Not doing it would patently cost a helluva lot more money in the medium and long term.

 

 

 

 

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What comes out of this for me is that it’s always best to treat media representation with a pinch of salt. 

 

I do quite like the concept of ‘tenets’ though, even if I personally would modify them slightly. Like others I wish that all existing UK/>/> residents would adhere to them. 

 

It’s about mutual respect. Something we lack in abundance; something that is undermined by divisiveness. The ‘PC brigade’ only exists because mutual respect doesn’t. 

 

We reap that which we sow.

 

 

 

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Afternoon Bruce, I have now read the information, and yes I agree that what they are planning is very useful, it does however state that it is web based for the councils to give them the information to put together packs for the imigrints, now while in a ideal country this is admirable, what makes me annoyed is the fact that our old people are having a great deal of care taken off them, there is now wheels on meals service, they have cut back on carers going in to help the frail and infirm to a huge degree, the fact is when people are in there 30 40 50 they never think they are going to get old, but believe me it sneeks up on you quicker than you think.

 

As many of the above posts say it is all common sence they want to put in the packs, but so much of it is ignored by many people these days So much money gets spent on these things and yet our basic amenities are slowley being cut back for people who have worked had all thier lives and when they need help money is being spent on so many PC things and the basic needs

 

I know they are seperate issues but the money all comes out of one pot so thats what brings it together for me.

 

I may not have put all this together as articulately as possible, but I think you will see what I mean, I know we all have difference of opinion's but that has to be a good thing. Carol.

 

PS. my dictionary has been working overtime.

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I agree with both Bruce and Carol, but compared to what the govt. are going to waste on i.d. cards, updating the Trident missile, "Think tanks" and "advisors", fighting "The war on Terror" and I.T schemes it will be small change. And they never once asked anyone what they thought of those, ( not even the back bench M.P.'s!)
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Tracker - 2008-02-05 4:14 PM

 

Don't worry Carol - we all love you and Bruce is always an argumentative bu##er - more so after a case of Baileys!

 

 

Hi Carol - Tracker is right.....on both counts!

 

 

Differing views and opinions are what makes such topics interesting to debate, so well done for your contributions.

:-D

 

 

 

 

(Of course it almost goes without saying that you and anyone else will always be entirely and completely wrong if you disagree with any of my opinions, but well done nonetheless............................Tracker, is that argumentative enough dya think?)

 

 

 

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BGD - 2008-02-05 5:00 PM

 

(Of course it almost goes without saying that you and anyone else will always be entirely and completely wrong if you disagree with any of my opinions, but well done nonetheless............................Tracker, is that argumentative enough dya think?)

 

Not really Bruce - needs to be a tad more convincing to wind up some of the others - but you're learning!

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Thankyou, Hymer C9 and BGD for this thread, without which I would have been unaware of these plans (because I wouldn't use a Red Top to wipe my ars.....nose).

I think this is a very good initiative, after all, immigrants can't play by the rules if we keep them secret. I do think it would be even better if such LA documents, when published, are given to all residents that have English as a second language, even if they have been resident for some time.

However, it must be born in mind that some people will not, or not want, to intigrate.

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BGD - 2008-02-04 10:16 PM

 

 

 

Are you saying that Local Authorities in England shouldn't give advice to people who come to live in their county/city from abroad, unless and until every other Local Authority throughout the entire EU does exactly the same?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yes bruce that is what i am saying,in spain british people who have retired there but are below retirement age do not qualify for social care,if they have registered for residency, they cannot come back to britain and get free care even if they have worked here all there lives.

 

once again we are the soft touch, local authorities are spending £25,000,000 on translation alone.

 

you should have lots of kids, then you could come back to the mother country, just you, and claim child benefit for them, while they live in sunny spain

 

:D :D :D :D

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bigal55 - 2008-02-05 7:01 PM

 

once again we are the soft touch, local authorities are spending £25,000,000 on translation alone.

 

But I read in one of the rags that the government are introducing an English test for Immigrants. So WHY are all these Local & National Government bodies wasting such large sums on translations. >:-(

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bigal55 - 2008-02-05 7:01 PM

 

BGD - 2008-02-04 10:16 PM

 

 

 

Are you saying that Local Authorities in England shouldn't give advice to people who come to live in their county/city from abroad, unless and until every other Local Authority throughout the entire EU does exactly the same?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yes bruce that is what i am saying,in spain british people who have retired there but are below retirement age do not qualify for social care,if they have registered for residency, they cannot come back to britain and get free care even if they have worked here all there lives.

 

once again we are the soft touch, local authorities are spending £25,000,000 on translation alone.

 

you should have lots of kids, then you could come back to the mother country, just you, and claim child benefit for them, while they live in sunny spain

 

:D :D :D :D

 

Hi Alan -

 

Neither of the points you seek to make seem to me to be at all relevant to the issue under discussion.

If you would like to read and reflect on and then comment upon the Commission document that this thread is discussing that would be great.

 

 

 

 

 

In addition your first point is simply wrong.

Both my wife and I are proof of that. We are both registered in the Spanish NHS system now, and receive (fantastic and prompt) healthcare under it as required.

 

On your second point, it is unfortunate that you have not quoted your source document.

 

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Bruce.

 

 

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Bruce - ref being registered for Spanish healthcare etc - is it because you and Sparkle are 'working' and not 'retired' that means you get healthcare coverage?

 

I thought if you retired, before the standard retirement age, to Spain or some of the other European countries, that you were not entitled to free healthcare after the initial 2 years and the only way to get it was to pay for it, with some sort of health insurance policy or such like.

 

Do you get it for free because you inadvertently pay for it in your income tax? :-S

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