Advice Needed

[Rod Sue]

Hi back in August my wife and I went to our local Motorhome sales show room to view some motorhomes just to pass a couple of hours as we were keen Caravaners and just wondered what it would be like to own a Motorhome so we could tour abit more in the future. As we were looking around, A salesman came over and we all got chatting about our caravan and these Motorhomes and a possible trade in of our 2 year old caravan against an older Motorhome, we pick a Motorhome we both liked, (It is a 1996 Swift Kon-Tiki on a Fiat Ducato Chassis) it had a Safe-T-Bar on the rear with an Electric socket which would be very handy to tow our small trailer, it also had lap belts fitted to the rear facing seats which we thought would be good for our two boys as one could face forward at the table and be fully strapped in and the other could sit opposite him at the table and still have a belt on whilst we we touring around. after a discusion with the manager of the show room, he told us he wanted to clean the motorhome before we made up our minds, so he asked for a deposit to keep the van for us (Subject to being cleaned) so i gave him a £500 deposit and arranged to view the van in 4 days time. By now my wife and I were getting quite excited about seeing the van in its cleaned state.

When the forth day arrived we went to view the van and noticed the Safe-T-Bar had been removed and the towbar electrics had been cut off and tied under the van, we also noticed that there were 2 black out blinds not winding back in when we tried them, when we mentioned it to the manager he said that he would get the Safe-T-Bar painted and given back to us, (He said it was taken off because it didn't do the van justice) But that was a buying point for us, and about those blinds he said they would be sorted by the time we collected the van, so with that he asked for a bit more deposit so he could get the work started so we gave him another £4500, He then said we could pick the van up in 3 weeks time so in the mean time we had got our caravan to him so it could be sold to his trader.

On September 13th 2007 we went to collect our motorhome from the showroom and were told to make a note of any problems with it and let them know, we were told that a key had snapped off in the passenger door lock, after we got home we loaded it and headed of for Dorset in our new Motorhome,we noticed that the lap belts had been cut away, the following morning we noticed the two Black out blinds still never wound up again, and we also noticed a strong smell of gas coming from the newly fitted water heater whitch was located under the youngest lads head when he was asleep so we had to cut our first long weekend away in our new van short to have the leak repaired. The eletric water pump did not work so we had to wait for a new one to be posted, this was mid September and we got it early November !!

We wrote our list and at the end of October they took the van in to repair it, it took 2 weeks.

On the list was :-

Drivers seat back loose..... Still loose!!

Snapped key in door lock...... Repaired

Two black out blinds not rewinding..... Still not working !!

Safe-T-Bar............ No sign of it !!

Van Poor Starting..... Still Poor starter !!

Waist water tank leaking.... Still leaks !!

Water pump not working .... New one arrived when we collected van!!

My Wife has phoned up the Manager to tell him about the blinds and his reply is "Well it is a 9 year old Van". He never said that when we were buying it so we feel very let down by him now, we have since got the Safe-T-Bar back, but it is no good to us at all because they have lost all brackets and when we phoned the Manager again about this he just said "I wish I had never taken it off now, it cost me £70 to have it painted" His assistant called me and arranged to have the van back so they could make us some brackets, the collected it and had it for the day and when it came back it still had no bar on it.

We are getting really fed up and I wish I had never got rid of our Caravan now, the manager told us that "Caravans are a way of life, MotorHomes Change your life" We both thought he meant for the better.

So we now have a van that is not what we feel is what we looked at in the first place and we think that the after sales is rubbish, they have made their sale, so now lump it.

We live near Guildford in Surrey and have had much better luck Buying two Caravans from the local dealer. As for Motorhome....NOT HAPPY :'(

[Guest peter]

Where did you buy it? I hope it wasn't White Arches in Wellinggorough. Have a word with Trading Standards (Consumer Direct). If that doesn't produce a resolution, see a Solicitor.

[Mel B]

Hi guys

 

Sorry to hear of your unfortunate first foray in to the world of motorhomes. Not sure what advice you are looking for though. If you are wondering what to do, then first I suggest you go and talk immediately to someone at the trading standards and/or citizens advice bureau, they will be able to tell you what your options are legally.

 

What warranty did you get with the van? Is it still current? Is it an insurance backed warranty?

 

If it were me, I'd immediately write to the company, including a copy of the list you gave them, and insist that the problems are sorted out to your satisfaction giving them a reasonable time in which to do it, say 3 weeks (yes I know, they've taken all this time so far and nothings been sorted but you have to do this in writing and show that you are being reasonable so you cannot be accused of being impatient). What you do next will depend on how far you want to take it. If they don't do anything, you can try the 'name and shame' route, or the legal route. It really depends on how far you want to go and if it is worth the hassle in the long run.

 

Ask yourself:

 

- is the van mainly what you wanted?

- if you hadn't had the problems would you still happy that you changed from a caravan?

 

Of the problems you've listed:

Drivers seat back loose..... is this sortable by you? If so, then why not do it and forget about it, if you can't fix it then I would think that they should be legally obliged to fix it from a safety point of view - check with citizens advice, there's nothing like a threat to get the H&S involved to frighten some of these companies!

 

Two black out blinds not rewinding..... this is something which you should be able to fix yourself, it has been covered on here before in a posting I believe, but no doubt someone will be able to tell you what to do if you're not sure or can't find it.

 

Safe-T-Bar..... this seems to be the only thing that you need to go back to them to get sorted out for definite. Keep on to them, they'll get sick of hearing from you and want to get you off their back so the more you nag the more chance you have of getting it done.

 

Van Poor Starting..... if you can give a bit more info on exactly what is wrong, ie does it turn over for ages then start, does it not start at all, etc, etc, then someone should be able to give you some ideas as t what is wrong, it might just be something daft that can be easily sorted.

 

Waist water tank leaking.... Can you tell where it is leaking from? Is it where the pipe joins the tank? Does one of the joints want tightening up? Is there a hole/crack in the tank itself? More info and we'll try to help.

 

With all second hand vans there is always something to do ... if you think that is bad, have a read through some of the threads about the faults on new vans! I'm not saying that you should have had faults, but it happens, at least they are not major ones by the sound of it.

 

Sometimes it's a case of biting the bullet and sorting things yourself, then you can forget about it all and start enjoying your new 'toy'.

[Rod Sue]

Hi Mel B

the starting problem is that the van will turn over and over for ages before starting, it sounds like the battery is going to die but they have had it back and kept it over night to check the morning starting and say its fine, then they told me it might have a lazy starter, we are worried that it will let us down on site if its not started every day, it has a new battery on it. They told me it has only one heater plug (A fith injector) that only works when the weather is in the minusus, the glow plug light only flashes on and goes straight off but if it is really cold it stays on for ages then starts flashing then takes ages to start. I feel worried every time I drive it because it turns over so slowly.

The Safe-T-Bar, we were told that it they make the brackets up we can only use it as a nudge bar and not a Tow Bar, but our young lad does Motocross on an 85cc bike and we need to Tow a small Bike trailer.

We feel it is not up to us to do these other problems on the van as we were told it would be done for us but they lied.

 

[Geoff Cole]

Hi,Rod & sue,

There is no doubt that the service that you are receiving from your dealer leaves a lot to be desired. I view motorhomes as a collection of parts sometimes not put together to the standard that we expect and car / motorhome dealers will some times tell you anything to get a sale.I have had to do many jobs on my new swift to rectify assembly problems and bad design,I have just spent 3 days sorting out the water ingress problem into the engine bay and relocating and plumbing the waste tank as the pipes were running up hill! My location makes the cost of travelling to the dealer prohibitive. As Mal B says if you can sort the minor problems yourself so much the better. As far as your starting problem is concerned it is not the battery the most likely cause in a vehicle of this age is the heater/injector assembly, the best bet is to take it to your local Fiat dealer to sort out and maybe have a service done then you will know its Ok .I do not know why the dealer took of the towbar, my guess is that he thought he could sell it and make a few quid. It does not cost £70 to spray a bar, aerosol cans of paint only cost a couple of quid. You should have been given the van "as seen"with all the relevent bits intact, the seat belts should not have been cut as they would have been part of the original equipment. Any thing taken out after doing the deal should be reinstated at the dealers expense, trading standards will no doubt advise you of your rights but getting things put right is not always straight forward.

I wish you luck and hope you get things sorted and enjoy your camper, we do despite the problems we have had with ours. Regards Geoff

[ned]

Hi Rod and Sue

 

I was dumbfounded by your tale. We motorhomers are usually a cheerful respectable lot and it is a shame to hear about the darker side of the dealer business. I agree with the things people have said about the trading standards etc. However working from our experience, albeit, with a motorcar I would get totally proactive and instead of feeling down about the little 'sharp scroat' look on it as a challenge and stuff the b*****d. keep a detailed record of everything. Conversations ( take a recorder with you) don't leave until they have put their promises in writing. Try a keep a verbatum record of telephone conversations. Firstly I would pay to get the van checked from top to toe by an independant engineer or garage. Something smells a bit here and they may turn up something to your advantage. Engage a solicitor work under his/her direction. They will be used to dealing with cases such as this. Inform the company director and the manager exactly what you are doing and and to whom you have spoken. You must treat this as a military operation. The object is to win and evrything is on your side. You must tell them what you are doing and what you have done. This will help if the case comes to court

You will find that they will fob you off at the beginning. Then they will offer you something if it can be resolved. Don't be fooled by this one as they will meet all your demands in the end. Stick with it until they satisfy you. Once you have incurred any costs you must add that on so they pay. They work on the principle that most people will cave in if they hold out. Don't cave in. Go for the jugular if they see you mean business you may get your money back plus expenses or failing this you go to the court and then they get stung for everything and this is why the solicitor is so important.

As I said we did just this with a fiat Punto and experienced exactly what you are. Her indoors is a tenacious young madam and eventually the garage settled 5 mins before the hearing. We found that our car wasn't one but three all stuck together hence the engineers report

I know this will take time but I certainly wouldn't set to to mend anything because they will use that to negate the problem by saying that they were not given enough time to rectify it.

Not a pleasant story but not all the dealers are quite so slippery as yours

 

Hope this helps

Yours Ned :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

[Guest peter]

So..........If you are that sure it's their fault.........Name the dealer.

[Guest Le Thou]

Hi

It's simple,,

 

What you must do is to list all the faults especially the gas leak and take copies of all correspondence, send these to the dealer by registered post and state that you want these faults corrected within the next two weeks.

Failure to do so by the dealer and you will consult a solicitor, (include this in the wording of your letter).

 

It may also be a consideration to employ the services of an independant "expert" to do an appraisal on the vehicle.

 

You must take copies of everything you send and everything must be in writing.

Good luck

[Rod Sue]

Hi

I won't name the dealer but they are based local to us and we live near Guildford and GODALMING in Surrey , their name begins with an Fr and ends in ne they also have a showroon in Southampton in Hampshire.

I wont name them just yet, I will let them know what we have done !!

Thankyou all for your advice

Rod & Sue

 

[Brian Kirby]

Write to the MD or Company Secretary expressing your disappointment at their handling of your complaints to date.  Attach, as briefly as possible, a list of all the faults in the vehicle, stating when they were notified of these and what has done done about them.  Tell them that you expect their reply within 14 days, for repairs to be completed to your reasonable satisfaction by the end of March.  Do not, at this stage, threaten any legal action, adopt a measured, polite tone, and express your disappointment that one of your reputed local companies should have let you down so badly.

Then, take a copy of your letter and all other correspondence to your local Trading Standards office as suggested above.  Act quickly, because you have already let the grass grow a bit.  Ask Trading Standards where you stand vis-a-vis rejection of the vehicle as not being of merchantable quality.  Also ask them what legal remedies you now have, and what are the foreseeable outcomes under the various scenarios.  I'm afraid this may not be clear cut and you'll need a deal of tenacity and patience.  My suggestion would be to try to get an agreement that they take the van back and return your money, albeit you may have to settle for a bit less than a full refund to cover the fact of your use of it, albeit briefly. 

Then start again to find a better van from a better dealer.  However, do be aware that elderly motorhomes are liable to have/develop faults, and it would be unusual for a bit of DIY not to be required on a van of this age.  That said, whatever its age, if it is sold as a motorhome, a motorhome it should be, and it seems to me yours is somewhat lacking as things stand.

[Ris]

Hi, Rod & Sue

Know the dealer very well as you can see from our location.

Our new motorhome had numerous faults, but after time all were cleared up. Suggest you write to Josh Willis, MD, based at the Southampton branch. I did and he was very receptive. Remind him of his company motto "Big Enough to Deliver Small Enough to Care". He also claims to be the Number 1 Customer Service in the South!!.

If you need to use a local Fiat agent can recommend STJ motors, they are on the Sheerwater Industrial Estate. They now sell Swift Motorhomes and advertise in the CC magazine. Phone number 01483 722793.

Wishing you every success.

Gerry

[catinou]

Hi Rod and Sue,

 

We have changed from a very unhelpful dealer in Somerset to one nearer home - the Southampton branch of your dealer - and cannot praise them enough, so would recommend as the other posters - contact Southampton... B-)