Crossing Paris

[Alan D]

Is crossing Paris too much hassle? The last couple of times driving south I skirted to the east then to the west. Is it quicker to drive through the centre and follow the tom tom or am I asking for trouble with lots of traffic even away from the rush hour?

[BrianR]

It depends on what you mean by "through the centre". It is very much like London (if this analogy helps). During the working week it would take just as long and by quite stressful, even if your mapping software is bang up to date. If you want an alternative, take the peripherique, outside the rush hour. This is not actually a motorway, but is built to the same standards, and is a complete circle, quite close to central Paris i.e., not round the periphery, as its name implies. Where will you be arriving from/going to, when you cross Paris?

[Alan D]

Yes my Tomtom says Peripherique and hope to be there by Sunday afternoon.We will need an overnight stop when we clear Paris en route for the south via Clermont ferrand road. Any suggestions for the stop? or should we go via Rouen and look for somewhere there? We always try to look for the easy option if possible and a gentle run down to Spain would be preferable.

Alan

[brayn]

I would certainly avoid Paris, unless yo have a reason to go there. It is just as fast and more convenient to go via Rouen. There are some excellent overnight stops available on that route. Have a look in Alan Rogers' handbook.

[ike]

I agree with brayn and would avoid Paris if at all possible. We've done it a few times without sat nav (with a printed route courtesy of the RAC). It is do-able but a bit nerve racking and if you hit any diversions and have to come off the periphique at any point you can end up places you don't want to be with a big van (or maybe that was my navigational skills!). Enjoy your trip.

ike

[Syd]

We usually use the Peripherique without too much trouble, after midnight it becomes a racetrack for motorcycles, we usually stay overnight on an Aire which is right at the first toll booths after Paris.

 

It is well lit and has quiet a lot of people there

[Guest JudgeMental]

 

 

I have gone through via the ring road many times. always at night and with a sat nav (and still made mistakes:-D ). I would not do it during the day or without a sat nav. Surely a Sunday afternoon would probably be the busiest time *-)

[Randonneur]

When we had our first SatNav I thought it would be prudent to follow its' directions which took us onto the Perpherique at 5pm on a Friday afternoon. It was horrendous, my Husband complained throughout the journey and we have never attempted it since. We now always go via Rouen.

[Brian Kirby]

I assume you're travelling from Calais towards the Spanish border at Le Perthus? 

In that case I would avoid Paris since if there is some large attraction (exhibition etc) along your route it can cause heavy traffic and huge tailbacks. 

I think I would go A16/A28 to Rouen, and from there N15 South along the East bank of the Seine to the A13 South (Junction 21) near Tourville-la-Riviere, where you cross the Seine, and at Junction 19 take the A154/N154 South to Evreux and Nonancourt.  At Nonancourt turn East onto N12 to Dreux, take the Westerly ring around Dreux (D828) and follow this round to pick up the N154 again, continuing South to Chartres.  Take the Westerly ring around Chartres (N128) to regain the N154 again heading south for Orleans.  Then transfer to the A10 South at Junction 12 (Alaines-Mervilliers) or Junction 13 (Artenay).  Thence A10 to Orleans, transfer to A71 South to Vierzon, Bourges and Clermont-Ferrand, and then take the A75 on South across the Grands Causses and the Millau Viaduct, to Pezenas, and then pick up the A9 South-West to Le Perthus and the AP7 into Spain.

[Syd]

5pm in any city is not the time one should travel, we usually try for about 8pm to 10pm on the perafique and find it quiet busy but easilly travelled with satnav.

Just stick in the second lane because you will have to "keep left" when the road splits into two sections at about two places I think.

 

There may be millions of cars milling around but they are all going in the same direction as you so they represent absolutely no problem.

They will have noted your number plate, that will have alerted them to the fact that there is an idiot driving in front who may do just about anything so long as it is totally unexpected.

The French are pretty good drivers really

[Randonneur]

Syd - 2008-02-26 2:42 PM

 

 

The French are pretty good drivers really

 

Is that why we have the highest amount of road accidents!!!!!

 

I never thought I would see the day when a Brit said the French were good drivers, the women are worse than the men.

[Brian Kirby]

Well, I don't want to get into a "my driving's better than yours" debate, I wouldn't becessarily use accident statistics as too accurate a measure, and nor would I wish to claim the British are necessarily better drivers than anyone else. 

However, personally, I quite like the way most of the French drive.  They do A to B driving as quickly as they can (though much more legally now than in the recent past), and they just get on with it.  Distances between towns in France are relatively large, so they get their welly down and don't (generally) sightsee en route.  They expect vehicles to be driven at, or near, the legal limits unless the vehicle itself has limitations (tractors etc), and they do drive better before lunch than after!  Some are aggressive idiots, but then so are some of all drivers.  If they catch you up they expect to overtake, and if you catch them up they expect to be overtaken.  They don't generally indulge in overtaking races, because being overtaken isn't (generally) taken to be a sign of lost virility.  They don't do hold-ups well, but then they are not as used to heavy traffic as we are.  In France, I just relax and drive, unlike in the UK where I'm always catching up Auntie Nellie, who comes in both genders, and discusses knitting or golf with her/his passenger at 48 MPH whatever the road conditions. 

If you want a bit of real eccentricity in your driving, try Portugal or Italy.  Then drive back and judge the French again!  I think you'll see Syd's point.  :-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

Syd - 2008-02-26 1:42 PM

 

 

Just stick in the second lane because you will have to "keep left" when the road splits into two sections at about two places I think.

 

Now he tells me! :-D

[Syd]

The worst driving I have ever encountered was in Marsailles, see I was so shaken up by it I cannot spell it correctly yet. Give me Paris anytime, I just love driving around there

 

When we were in Marsailles every single main road in the place was under re-construction so the delays were something else but of course that wasnt bad enough for them, they were holding a "Support your police" march day where several hundred people sauntered slowly along the main motorway through the city. Phew, we do not plan to visit that city again.

EVERY SINGLE car has dents and many have then even in the roof.

If you think French road signes are not too good just wait until you encounter a load of thier tempory road signs all close together.

Made our satnav blink I can tell you

 

In general though I thought that the French drivers do not hog the fast lanes they pull back in when they have overtaken plus they do not seem to accelerate just when you get along side of them leaving you stuck in the middle of the road

[BrianR]

My only complaint about Fench drivers is that they tailgate and don't use their indicators (even less than UK drivers, if this were possible!). At least the French are decisive. Coming back to the request for the route, I would take the same route as t'other Brian suggested as far as Orléans, but then take the A20 down to Toulouse, partly because more of this is free, than the A71/75 route, and you avoid the Millau bridge toll. If you are not too fussed about time, (you said "a gentle run down to Spain"), leave the A20 south of Brive, where the tolls start again, and follow the N20. You can easily maintain 90kms/hr on this. If you go Rouen way, there are good aires at Forges-les-Eaux, just before Rouen, Mery-sur-Cher, Uzerche, Montauban (all with electricity). From Toulouse you have a choice of routes into Spain. Just to complicate your choice, going the way you want, if I were going via Paris I wouldn't use the Péripherique, I would use the motorways round Paris, going East and then West. I have done this a few times and it is quite straight forward from the A1. I can't give you the route, as my up-to-date maps are all away in the 'van.

[rupert123]

I spend three months a year in France and although do not go to Spain travel down to Chamonix via Dijon and Beaune on a regular basis. Now I would think you would go via Beaune if you go around Paris and I can tell you with absolute certainty it is quicker to Beaune going via Rheims than Paris, may not look it on a map and is a little further but never been held up by traffic this way. Paris by its ring road is ok but can be a traffic nightmare at wrong times. It is however easy to follow using basic rules, going north to south once on peri follow signs Paris Est then Paris Sud, if you miss your exit road do not worry their will be another. Coming from south simply follow signs areoport Charles du Gaulle.

[Brian Kirby]

BrianR - 2008-02-26 5:34 PM ............... Coming back to the request for the route, I would take the same route as t'other Brian suggested as far as Orléans, but then take the A20 down to Toulouse, partly because more of this is free, than the A71/75 route, and you avoid the Millau bridge toll. If you are not too fussed about time, (you said "a gentle run down to Spain"), leave the A20 south of Brive, where the tolls start again, and follow the N20. You can easily maintain 90kms/hr on this. ............

As a rider to this, and only because I used the map to identify the routes South, I had another go at it on Autoroute. 

From Vierzon (where the major division of the routes begins) to Le Perthus services (which is the nearest autoroute stop-off to the Spanish border) is:

- via Clermont-Ferrand, 670km, and

- via Brive-la-Gaillarde, 710km.

However, if sticking to autoroutes, the free section from Vierzon to Brive is 275km, whereas the section from Clermont to Pezenas is 322km (but you have to pay the Millau viaduct toll (which cost us 7.30 Euros in 2005). 

Allowing for the reduced distance via Clermont - so less fuel and less distance on toll roads, I'd have thought there would be very little between the two routes in terms of cost, unless, as Brian suggests, you take the N20 from Brive and eliminate the tolls South as far as Toulouse.  Down one way and back the other, just to change the scenery?  Me, I'd take far longer, and wander down the "D" roads all the way.

[derek500]

Brian Kirby - 2008-02-27 12:13 PM

 

However, if sticking to autoroutes, the free section from Vierzon to Brive is 275km, whereas the section from Clermont to Pezenas is 322km (but you have to pay the Millau viaduct toll (which cost us 7.30 Euros in 2005). 

 

In September we detoured through Millau and overnighted at the new Aire in the town (free parking, about 40 spaces, but services on different site about 6€), luckily we didn't need to use them. You get great views of the bridge as well on the drive in and out of the town. Also free wi-fi at the McDonalds south of the town!!

[alan]

Hi

Off thread a little

free wi-fi at McDonalds? is this standard in france!!!

Alan

[Alan D]

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

 

When I said I had travelled East of Paris , I followed rupert123`s route and last time it was Brian Kirby`s Westerly route.

Of course I should have said at the outset- Calais to Spain VIA Paris.

On balance I think through the French Capital sounds a bit like the M25 and I will have had enough of that for one day!

I am contantly amazed by all the knowledge when I look at the Forum and I realize I still have a lot to learn.

 

Thanks again, Alan D.

[derek500]

alan - 2008-02-27 4:45 PM

 

Hi

Off thread a little

free wi-fi at McDonalds? is this standard in france!!!

Alan

 

In my experience about 75% of the out of town branches. No purchase required either. Works fine in the car parks.

[alan]

Hi Derek500

Thanks for the info - glad we don't have to go into McDonalds!

Cheers, Alan

[maggyd]

Alan D - 2008-02-26 11:05 AM

 

Yes my Tomtom says Peripherique and hope to be there by Sunday afternoon.We will need an overnight stop when we clear Paris en route for the south via Clermont ferrand road. Any suggestions for the stop? or should we go via Rouen and look for somewhere there? We always try to look for the easy option if possible and a gentle run down to Spain would be preferable.

Alan

 

 

 

We just followed the instruction with Tom Tom last October but we were in our car going to our Sons cottage that is just a few miles past Clemont Ferrand, it takes about 6 hours or more going on the Paris ring road so I would have thought it is a good bit further taking a detour. We took a turning too soon when we were instructed that we would be turning soon as there is 2 turnoffs quite close to-gether!! my Son who was following nearly had a dicky fit as he knew we were heading into an area that he wasnt familiar with *-) but Tom Tom soon put us right and had us back on the right road, so trust in Tom Tom and dont take the turn until she says "take the exit now" when we took the wrong exit we had already taken it when she said T.T.E.N. 8-) We soon learned our lesson! the hard way.

[BrianR]

Alan D - 2008-02-28 3:49 PM

 

On balance I think through the French Capital sounds a bit like the M25 and I will have had enough of that for one day!

 

Thanks again, Alan D.

 

The Péripherique is nothing like the M25! I suppose the main difference is that the exits come every few hundred metres and for some you have to be in the righthand lane well before them if you want to take them. An other difference is that it is full of Parisian drivers! As I suggested before, a better alternative would be to ignore Tom Tom, or rather, force Tom Tom to take you round the motorway box round Paris. Tom Tom thinks, because this is further, it is slower, but it isn't. don't be a slave to your satnav.

[maggyd]

But Tom Tom does tell you to stay in the right or over to left of the lane I understood it and I admit to be the worst person for getting lost !! my Husband never takes my directions until he has double checked!! he of little Faith.