net-traveller Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Sorry if there is a thread out there on this subject but the site search facility has gone pear-shaped. Some interesting items this week - http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2008/02/28/229612/government-will-have-to-ask-permission-for-id-card-information.htm http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2008/02/29/229613/home-office-laptop-sold-on-ebay.htm ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Interesting (scary!) stuff. So Duncan Hine (the cheeky chappie in charge of security for the proposed National Identity Register and Identity Card Database) says: "Security on the Biometric database will be the highest possible and certified by Government". Gosh. Now he's said that, all of my worries over the consistent previous record of Mr Bean and his Clown Circus have completely disappeared. Duncan's sure all of our personal and biometric data will be safe in their hands.......I'm just sooooooooooo reassured. How silly of me to have ever thought that it wouldn't be. (And there was me thinking that it should be the UK Government that should all be Certified). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Bruce I do think it is most unfair and unjustified of you to liken our esteemed prime minister (the one nobody voted for) to Mr Bean. Mr Bean did at least try and he was at least funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 BGD - 2008-03-05 1:41 PM Interesting (scary!) stuff. So Duncan Hine (the cheeky chappie in charge of security for the proposed National Identity Register and Identity Card Database) says: "Security on the Biometric database will be the highest possible and certified by Government". But he also says that the "biographical" data will have a different security rating - so at least THAT will probably be safe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J9withdogs Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 But if you get your identity stolen - will you have to have new eyeballs and fingers? 8-) 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I've got a passport and a driving license with my name address and photo on it - so what the b####y h##l do I need an ID card for? If the government only made the bad guys and gals have an ID card think of how much money could be saved. Or perhaps it should be like the old cowboy films where the good guys wore white hats and the bad guys wore black hats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Tracker - 2008-03-05 9:04 PM I've got a passport and a driving license with my name address and photo on it - so what the b####y h##l do I need an ID card for? .......... So that, dear Rich, you could travel anywhere within the EC without the fag of carrying a passport, or the expense of getting one. All the other Eurofolk can do this, it's just us who can't. And you don't need a huge, complex, costly, insecure, database to have an ID card. I know this because most of the other Eurofolk have had these since before computers, or databases, were invented. (so did we once, but that's a different story.) The driving licence would be an excellent starting point, because so many of us already have these. Then a bit more information could be added as time, money, and technology, allows. At least that way each bit can be tested and proved as it is added. However, they've now dropped the idea, after spending I wonder how much inventing the unworkable, so there's decisive, then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Does it strike others that this Government seems to be backtracking an awful lot? Personally I feel that we do not need a huge new data base for a new system of ID cards – ID cards do not bother me, but the thought of a huge poorly run database bought on the basis of the lowest cost and run by individuals paid on the same basis most certainly does. As Brian points out – we could just use Driving Licenses – no reason why those without a current licence cannot have a document via the DVLA but it being clearly marked as “Non-Valid” as a Driving Licence. No the ID card concept was born of the PC control freakery that blights this Government. If we have one thing to be thankful for it is those wonderful people who so ably demonstrated that Governments are only really any good at ruling that we must “Do as they say not as they do”. In particular – ask any designated “Data Controller” in the private sector what systems have to be in place to protect personal data and then do the same for the public sector. The missing data discs lost by various public sector organisations have, I believe, put paid to the concept of ID cards as they were intended by this rather authoritarian Government. And now we have the wonderful sight of Ruth Kelly (is it just me or does this person have a supreme ability to be one of the most nauseating politicians ever? Stating that the nationwide spy in the sky road monitoring and charging system is to be scrapped – this despite her two predecessors stating that the technology was ready to go and it was all a “done deal”. What was worrying was that a friend who is a Policeman was quite open in saying that if put in placed these two systems would effectively be able to track people virtually anywhere in the UK. So again – does it not strike a little odd that with ID cards going pear shaped for this Government, that suddenly the “done deal” on road pricing gets scrapped? Look – just because I am paranoid does not mean they are not out to get us!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 CliveH - 2008-03-06 4:33 AM In particular – ask any designated “Data Controller” in the private sector what systems have to be in place to protect personal data and then do the same for the public sector. The missing data discs lost by various public sector organisations have, I believe, put paid to the concept of ID cards as they were intended by this rather authoritarian Government. As a former Data Protection Officer in local government I know all about the systems which should be in place and the difficulties of first of all getting them installed and secondly ensuring that people adhere to them. I would be the last person to defend lapses in the public sector - and I have always been against the idea of the national ID database (and the NHS spine) because of the inbuilt lack of security. Having said that, personally I have experienced more breaches of the Data Protection Act by private sector organisations than by public sector ones. As with fraud, it seems to be often the case that breaches in the private sector are hushed up whilst those in the public sector (rightly) receive full publicity. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 You may well be right Graham but I am looking at what we do here and how we get pulled up if we are not strict enough and also what happened with some life Office data discs – Standard life was just one – there are many others where the rules say they data must be sent to HMC&E via a secure method – so the Life office ensures they deliver them and get a receipt for safe delivery and then when this same data is sent back by HMC&E is just gets sent in the post. This is certainly NOT an isolated case. Several Life Offices have reported the same breach of procedure by Government agencies. And interestingly the Information Commissioners Office has called for the same sanctions to be available to him for public sector organisations as currently exist for private sector firms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 CliveH - 2008-03-06 9:39 AM You may well be right Graham but I am looking at what we do here and how we get pulled up if we are not strict enough and also what happened with some life Office data discs – Standard life was just one – there are many others where the rules say they data must be sent to HMC&E via a secure method – so the Life office ensures they deliver them and get a receipt for safe delivery and then when this same data is sent back by HMC&E is just gets sent in the post. This is certainly NOT an isolated case. Several Life Offices have reported the same breach of procedure by Government agencies. And interestingly the Information Commissioners Office has called for the same sanctions to be available to him for public sector organisations as currently exist for private sector firms. I totally agree, Clive, that the same strict standards - and the same strict sanctions - should be applied to both public and private sectors. I would also hope that, in light of persistent breaches, the Standard Life board would make vigorous complaints to both HMC&E and to the ICO. I know I would - and have done so - in similar circumstances. The problem I found (in both sectors), as with many things, is that procedures/projects are governed by cost rather than the required standard. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Agreed - and it is this cost factor that will be the issue with ID cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 CliveH - 2008-03-06 12:10 PM Agreed - and it is this cost factor that will be the issue with ID cards Cost astronomical, security abysmal, criminals hysterical >:-( Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza454 Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Dear Minister, I'm in the process of renewing my passport but I am a total loss to understand or believe the hoops I am being asked to jump through. How is it that Bert Smith of T.V. Rentals Basingstoke has my address and telephone number and knows that I bought a satellite dish from them back in 1994, and yet, the Government is still asking me where I was born and on what date? How come that chappy who comes round every Thursday night with his DVD rentals van can tell me every film or video I have had out since he started his business up eleven years ago, yet you still want me to remind you of my last three jobs, two of which were with contractors working for the government? How come the T.V. detector van can tell if my T.V. is on, what channel I am watching and whether I have paid my licence or not, and yet if I win the government run lottery they have no idea I have won or where I am and will keep the bloody money to themselves if I fail to claim in good time. Do you people do this by hand? You have my birth date on numerous files you hold on me, including the one with all the income tax forms I've filed for the past 30-odd years. It's on my health insurance card, my driver's licence, on the last four passports I've had, on all those stupid customs declaration forms I've had to fill out before being allowed off the planes and boats over the last 30 years, and all those insufferable census forms that are done every ten years and the electoral registration forms I have to complete, by law, every time our lords and masters are up for re-election. Would somebody please take note, once and for all, I was born in Maidenhead on the 4th of March 1957, my mother's name is Mary, her maiden name was Reynolds, my father's name is Robert, and I'd be absolutely astounded if that ever changed between now and the day I die! I apologize Minister. I'm obviously not myself this morning. But between you and me, I have simply had enough! You mail the application to my house, then you ask me for my address. What is going on? Do you have a gang of Neanderthals working there? Look at my damn picture. Do I look like Bin Laden? I don't want to activate the Fifth Reich for God's sake! I just want to go and park my weary backside on a sunny, sandy beach for a couple of week's well-earned rest away from all this crap. Well, I have to go now, because I have to go to back to Salisbury and get another copy of my birth certificate because you lost the last one. AND to the tune of 60 quid! What a racket THAT is!! Would it be so complicated to have all the services in the same spot to assist in the issuance of a new passport the same day? But nooooo, that'd be too damn easy and maybe make sense. You'd rather have us running all over the place like chickens with our heads cut off, then find some (it's not nice to insult people) to confirm that it's really me on the goddamn picture - you know... the one where we're not allowed to smile in in case we look as if we are enjoying the process! Hey, you know why we can't smile? 'Cause we're totally jacked off! I served in the armed forces for more than 25 years including over ten years at the Ministry of Defence in London. I have had security clearances which allowed me to sit in the Cabinet Office, five seats away from the Prime Minister while he was being briefed on the first Gulf War and I have been doing volunteer work for the British Red Cross ever since I left the Services. However, I have to get someone "important" to verify who I am -- you know, someone like my doctor... Who, before he got his medical degree 6 months ago was born and raised outside the UK. Yours sincerely, An Irate British Citizen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Love these two posts above Absolute gems!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Dear Bazza, you say you are who you say you are, but how do we know who you are? You could be anyone! To prove who you are before I can answer your questions please advise me of the following: Your birthday, your mothers' maiden name, the name of someone who can verify your mothers' maiden name, their birthdays in chronological order, your passport number or if you haven't got a current passport the name of someone who knows you, such as your doctor or a person with a valid first aid certificate over the age of 18, the birthday and mothers' maiden name of that person, unless it's your doctor. I will also need your NHS number, N.I. number, driving licence number, bank account pin number, credit card pin number and telephone number. You might have been in the room with Tony Blair several years ago but we don't like him now. In fact we don't mention him now so that won't count at all, sorry. This is not an official answer to your points as we haven't yet received official word that you are who you say you are, so I can't help you in an official government capacity. But please feel free to write back because I will receive your letters, but just not officially. By for now, Minister for clearer government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza454 Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Tomo,Much clearer now (I think), many thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
net-traveller Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 Yet another defense of the indefensible. Where do these politicans and their ass lickers live? http://www.silicon.com/publicsector/0,3800010403,39170314,00.htm ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 What will happen, as with so many projects is this: 1) The government specification (if any serious attempt is made to write one at all) will be incomplete and seriously flawed. 2) Only those companies which think they can make a good profit out of pretending to do the job will bid (already seeing some big ones pull out). 3) The bidders will propose systems based on their existing packages which do not actually meet even the incomplete specification, with the vague promise (contract permitting) that they will make alterations to make it work. 4) The system will be full of holes and the project will go over budget. As a result of those factors and under-resourcing generally the civil service will cut corners which will lead to information being maintained and transmitted insecurely. Partially this will be through senior civil servants pretending they understand the systems and partly it will be because they are keeping well out of the firing line and leaving decisions to junior staff who have not been trained because of under-resourcing. 5) The contract conditions will allow the successful bidder to fleece the public purse because just about anything which goes anywhere near making the system work will be "extra". 6) On the odd occasion when the contractors cannot take make such a charge they will simply ignore the request to do the work until the civil service either does it themselves or pays someone else to plug the gap. How I wish the above was not based on experience :'( Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
net-traveller Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 Despite the current buzz phrase of 'clear and transparent' the government has evoked the 1689 Bill of Rights Act to prevent us peasants learning anything to beat them with. Yes, I do mean 1689. http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2008/03/07/229762/government-seeks-to-bury-id-card-reviews.htm A government commissioned report recommends that ID cards should be free and that the owner of the info should be able to determine its use. Not quite what the government intended? http://www.kablenet.com/kd.nsf/FrontpageRSS/E8B6050E3C1F139B8025740500417A32!OpenDocument On a lighter note, I'll bet you didn't realise just how dangerous iPods are - http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/IT-downtime-blog/2008/02/is-that-an-ipod-in-your-pocket.html ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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