Foreign Lorry Drivers

[michele]

Did anyone see ITV tonight with Trevor Mcdonald.

The programme was all about Foreign Lorry Drivers and the state the Lorrys are in . One guy was pulled over and he had thread bear tyres .The thing is some of these guys have killed people whilst I know that could happen to anyone an accident it does not help that they can drive all the hours that god sends and get away with it . They seemingly get no ponits on their licences because we cannot impose them .

They can not see vehicles next to them because of the lefthand drive situation our goverment is doing nothing about it . Our lorries have to pay massive road taxes and haulage licences these guys fiddle the Taco's

Added to it is the fact that the amount is going to rise withcheeper diesel in foreign countrys and no road tax they pay the less than minimum so it puts our legal guys out of work.

What I want you all to do is think what you would do to put it right if you were in charge Ok GO...................

[Syd]

I will add this into my manifesto.

 

All non UK registered commercial vehicles entering this country, will pay a levey to be set by weight of the vehicle and it's load.

I'm thinking in the region of £100 per ton but am open to persuasion to raise it slightly to say £1000 per ton

 

Any driver of a non UK registered vehicle caught breaking ANY of UK laws would have the vehicle and load confiscated until after the court case, they had been found guilty and the fine had been paid.

[tamworthkamper]

On slightly different subject cars that are now coming over with eastern europeans some of these are here for over year have no mot inspection and pay no british road taxs .

With the trucks they SHOULD be impounded until the fines are paid .If we are over there and we cann 't pay they would impound are vechles. I thought new laws were coming in that said all lorries have to have blind spot mirrors so side swiping should nt happen. We use the m20 and A2

regullary and have had to take action several times both in the car this I can understand as it low .But when it happens when we are in the motorhome how can they not see this .Not using there mirrors properly I ve driven several thousand miles on european roads and have never done

this If Im going to pull out I look behind me for about quarter of mile and judge the speed of the faster traffic.

[avongas]

Try standing on a hardshoulder with a row of plastic cones between you and a foreign driver heading towards you after driving for god knows how long and straddling the rumble lines.

 

not pleasant!

 

 

[Syd]

Should I add to my agenda that all non UK registered vehicles entering the UK must have a full MOT inspection before being allowed to leave their point of entry, this test would cost the driver £50 for cars and £250 for lorries.

Failure to pass this test would see the vehicle impounded until such time as the test is passed and destroyed after waiting for more than one month for the retest.

 

All lorry drivers must rest for 24 hours, away from their vehicles, on entry into the UK.

Tacographs on all vehicles leaving the UK will be checked for any iregularities, if any are suspected the vehicle will be impounded pending investigation and confiscated if proven.

 

Would this be going far enough or is there more

[Guest Tracker]

I always take great care when passing foreign lorries as when you are alongside their cab they often can't see a car although they will probably be able to see a motor home as long as it is higher than their cab window.

 

Always look at what is ahead of the lorry you are passing and if he is close to or closing on a slower moving vehicle that is the real danger sign.

 

As long as there is space between you and the central reservation you might well be able to move out as the lorry does - but only if you are ready for it and are not too close.

 

Two lane roads are the most dangerous as there is often nowhere to go, but busy three lane roads are almost as bad because the drivers in the outside lane are not always aware of what is happening in the inside lanes.

 

Some folks drive too fast for their own ability and seem to drive with either blinkers on or tunnel vision.

 

Many years ago a tyre on a heavy army truck blew just as we were passing it in a Metro on the M5. The bang scared us witless and the force of air threw us a couple of feet out into the third lane - just as well that lane was empty as we were very lucky to escape with a few shakes.

[howie]

Not sure if this is still the case, but I remember a conversation with a friend serving in the police force some years ago who told me that in most cases a 'blind eye' was turned to traffic offences involving foreign H.G.V,s

Getting a successful prosecution against foreign based firms involved so much bureaucracy and paperwork that it simply wasn't worth the effort.

On the spot fines with the vehicle impounded until paid is employed successfully in a lot of other countries and something we should consider as well.

 

 

[LordThornber]

Howie, can't agree mate sorry.

 

We may be infringing their Human Rights.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist it :D :D :D

[howie]

LordThornber - 2008-04-01 11:06 AM

 

Howie, can't agree mate sorry.

 

We may be infringing their Human Rights.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist it :D :D :D

Might be a grain of truth in that Martyn with current political attitude loathe to cause possible offence to our European neighbours.

Long story, but my 5 year old van has Irish number plates, and though I try to keep to the speed limits, there has been the odd occasion i,ve expected a fine through the post, but none so far, which might just be down to those plates.

[Patricia]

Syd - 2008-04-01 9:04 AM

 

Should I add to my agenda that all non UK registered vehicles entering the UK must have a full MOT inspection before being allowed to leave their point of entry, this test would cost the driver £50 for cars and £250 for lorries.

Failure to pass this test would see the vehicle impounded until such time as the test is passed and destroyed after waiting for more than one month for the retest.

 

All lorry drivers must rest for 24 hours, away from their vehicles, on entry into the UK.

Tacographs on all vehicles leaving the UK will be checked for any iregularities, if any are suspected the vehicle will be impounded pending investigation and confiscated if proven.

 

Would this be going far enough or is there more

 

Think your ideas are spot on Syd but unfortunately no-one would ever be able to get near Dover for the pile-up!

 

Hate driving up from Dover for the first hour or so as the Eastern European lorry drivers are most unpredictable and it is not always possible to see too far ahead when they insist on overtaking on an incline. I tend to pick up a sensibly driven lorry doing up to the legal speed of 60 and just tootle behind and let them fight it out!

[Syd]

Patricia - 2008-04-01 12:32 PM

 

 

 

Think your ideas are spot on Syd but unfortunately no-one would ever be able to get near Dover for the pile-up!

 

Hate driving up from Dover for the first hour or so as the Eastern European lorry drivers are most unpredictable and it is not always possible to see too far ahead when they insist on overtaking on an incline. I tend to pick up a sensibly driven lorry doing up to the legal speed of 60 and just tootle behind and let them fight it out!

 

OK fair comment

To counter this problem I think I will make it that all this testing and resting should be enforced by our customs people at the port of embark, before they get clearance to embark ie in France

Drivers would have to report to our customs at least 24hours before embark time as evidence that they have had the 24 hours rest, this would be after the testing of course

[Hymer C 9.]

Syd, are you having posters printed and getting your canvassers organised, for when you stand, the sooner the better I think. :D Carol.

[Patricia]

I'll certainly second that Carol. Well done Syd - you have some excellent ideas. Why can't our overpaid Government come up with sensible ideas? Too much like hard work I suppose.

[colin]

Friend was sideswipped by foriegn lorry 3?years ago, after a long arguement he got drivers details, but to no avail , no reply from drivers insurance.

I came close to being side swiped by british lorry going up to NEC, was boxed in heavy traffic, I went for option of holding on horn, my only other option would have been heavy braking which would proboly have resulted in a pile up behind us.

[Brian Kirby]

This is not a single problem, it is several conflated problems, and each needs a different solution. 

The problem with a lack of visibility on the nearside of trucks is well recognised, and I too had understood there was now legislation requiring at least blind spot mirrors to be fitted.  However, the proper solution is surely a blind spot camera with a monitor that places the information clearly within the driver's field of view.  Any truck arriving in UK without this mirror should be impounded until the mirror is fitted, or sent back across the ditch.

Overloaded vehicles could easily be load checked on arrival at the ports.  The technology exists, and weighing can be accomplished quite automatically.  Driver fined, truck and driver impounded until fine paid, and excess load to be transferred to another vehicle at driver's expense.  Truck only released when load corrected and all costs paid in full.

Defective vehicles are already impounded if noticed en-route.  These inspections should be made at the port of entry, and should include appropriate adjustment/masking of headlamps for left hand traffic.  At the same time tachograph records should be inspected and the appropriate fines etc dispensed on the spot with driver and vehicle impounded until paid.

If drivers cause accidents by driving dangerously they should be charged, and immediately taken to special courts, with driver and vehicle held by the court until whatever penalty has been paid.  If the driver is imprisoned the truck owner can have his truck back when all costs are paid.  If owner driver the load will be delivered at the driver's expense, the truck auctioned to pay the costs of the court case, and the balance of the value placed in an interest bearing account to await release of the driver.

Vehicles arriving with additional fuel tanks would be charged UK VAT and duty any the excess fuel carried over and above the tank capacity of the standard vehicle.

The really tough nut in all this, is that there is apparently no harmonisation of standards for HGV licences across Europe, and certain licences are easily forged with, seemingly, quite a lot of "forged licence holders" circulating on UK roads.  Inspect licences and insurance documentation at port of entry seems the only solution.

Since all these checks would take considerable time/resources, I'd suggest they should be permanent but not consistent, so that one or other check would be run on one day, and a different check the next day, and so on on a 24/7 basis.  Word would soon get round, and the problem would diminish to manageable proportions after a relatively few weeks.  Hurrah!  Brian for Queen!  :-)

[Syd]

Would you like to be my running mate Brian.

Of course you would have to toughen up your stance on one or two little matters first though.

 

Not too happy about selling lorry to pay fines/costs and putting the ballance of monies into a interest bearing account for the driver when released. In my opinion the court costs would ALWAYS equal any ballance wouldn't you agree.

 

Regarding extra fuel tanks, absolutely no alteration from the standard vehicle would be allowed other than safety improvements and all non UK registered commercial vehicles entering the UK would have to have no more than a quarter full tank or pay a £5 duty on each and every gallon judged to be in the tank

[michele]

Brian for queen 8-) 8-) :$

 

Did you also notice that on the show the police made mention of the fact that they were not allowed to on the spot fine these drivers ...God I bet they wished they worked in France . Do people on here how do you all feel do you think the good old English will always be this soft ? will there always be an England we seem to be the only ones that stand the three card trick Or is it me being racist I suppose we will offend someone soon but i always say its not colur creed or what ever it the difference between right and wrong simple really ...vote for me I will join Syd and the queen as the drag act drag em out of england or make it so tuff they wont want to come back without being legal.

[donna miller]

Ok, my input, dont all jump down my throat at once. Form an orderly queue.

 

Many of the points raised above are valid, however, some are just personal hatred of foreign trucks.

I would never condone dangerous practices on the road, regardless of the nationality of the driver.

 

Hgv or Lgv licences ARE harmonised across Europe, that is why we have to comply with European legislation regarding licencing and drivers hours, the fact that a minority of foreigners choose to ignore this, does not imply they are all the same.

 

I dont like cutting and pasting different peoples views to answer, so I'll try to remember what was said generally and give my input.

 

As very few of you on here are actually employed or involved in road transport, views can be extremely biased and are often based on hearsay and gossip.

On the subject of lorries having extra fuel tanks fitted, this is done to keep down the cost of the journey, how many of us go over to France or Belgium in our motorhomes with very little fuel in the tank and fill up over there because it's cheaper, we then make sure the tank is full to come back here. What's the difference. Everybody does the same, why single out foreign drivers, we do not personally benefit if they buy their fuel over here, so why make an issue of it.

 

Tachos, from June last year, all new lorries had to be fitted with digital tachos, most of the the foreign lorries making journeys over here are new or nearly new, it's rare to see an older truck nowadays, a lot of people keep saying they fiddle their tacho, anyone want to offer a way of doing it ? You maybe able to put in a new chart on an analogue tacho, but you still have to account for the missing mileage and time. Drive over your hours and it's recorded. Speed,time and distance. Yes, drivers do falsify the records, you can't fiddle them, but the penalties are severe, upwards of a £1000 per offence. Foreign police are red hot on driver regs, and issue on the spot fines, the fact that this country doesn't do it is not the drivers fault.

 

British drivers are just as bad when they go "over the pond", they are trying to make a living in a cut-throat industry, and are guilty of breaching the same regs as the foreign drivers who come over here.

 

Drivers of motorhomes who go abroad on a regular basis, often come on here and complain about the foreign police, and the way traffic offenders are treated, you complain about police who fine you on the spot, and follow you to cash machines to get the money to pay, Oh how you moan, and yet you advocate impounding lorries if the driver hasn't got the cash to pay. Double standards spring to mind.

Overweight lorries, overweight motorhomes, any difference?, tired lorry drivers whose driving hours are recorded by legislation, or motorhomers driving whilst tired with no control over how long they can stay behind the wheel.

 

Television programmes like the one mentioned, only pick out the worst of the worst, it's supposedly for our entertainment.

 

There are 1000s of foreign trucks who deliver goods to our country, the vast majority are experienced professional drivers who have to, not only try to meet deadlines, but also to drive a vehicle intended for use on the other side of the road, Just as we do (if you have a RHD vehicle) when we go abroad. We then become the "foreign driver" who cant see properly on roundabouts or right hand turns. We expect "locals" in the country we are in, to realise this and make allowances, and yet not one person has mentioned this in defence of "foreign drivers" over here.

 

Yes, some drivers choose to flout,ignore or make up the rules, but it's not confined to foreign truck drivers, we all do it at some point, we use the excuse that " It's legal in Britain, so why should I change when I go abroad". Please remember foreigners take the same stance.

 

There is European legislation being considered concerning the fitting of tachos in ALL vehicles(which will include motorhomes) over 3500kgs. How soon do you think it will be before we get threads showing how to fiddle them when they affect us.

 

Be not so quick to condemn, lest WE become the condemned.

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

Always good to get a balanced view Donna.

 

Just as continental drivers are wary of us when we are in Europe and we sometimes stray onto the wrong side of the road or get a junction or roundabout totally wrong, the best defence over here for us is driving defensively, being aware of the risks and trying to predict the unpredictable.

[Syd]

Oh Bugger

 

[Guest Tracker]

Syd - 2008-04-02 5:03 PM

 

Oh Bugger

 

It's yer own fault for being too soft!

 

I hear that Robert Mugabe is looking for a new job and as justice advisor to the new British Prime Minister he is well qualified.

 

Indeed as foreign secretary I too could learn a lot from his expertise in dealing with diplomats, his own government and foreign governments.

 

 

[davenewellhome]

donna miller - 2008-04-02 10:24 AM

 

Ok, my input, dont all jump down my throat at once. Form an orderly queue.

 

Many of the points raised above are valid, however, some are just personal hatred of foreign trucks.

I would never condone dangerous practices on the road, regardless of the nationality of the driver.

 

Hgv or Lgv licences ARE harmonised across Europe, that is why we have to comply with European legislation regarding licencing and drivers hours, the fact that a minority of foreigners choose to ignore this, does not imply they are all the same.

 

I dont like cutting and pasting different peoples views to answer, so I'll try to remember what was said generally and give my input.

 

As very few of you on here are actually employed or involved in road transport, views can be extremely biased and are often based on hearsay and gossip.

On the subject of lorries having extra fuel tanks fitted, this is done to keep down the cost of the journey, how many of us go over to France or Belgium in our motorhomes with very little fuel in the tank and fill up over there because it's cheaper, we then make sure the tank is full to come back here. What's the difference. Everybody does the same, why single out foreign drivers, we do not personally benefit if they buy their fuel over here, so why make an issue of it.

 

Tachos, from June last year, all new lorries had to be fitted with digital tachos, most of the the foreign lorries making journeys over here are new or nearly new, it's rare to see an older truck nowadays, a lot of people keep saying they fiddle their tacho, anyone want to offer a way of doing it ? You maybe able to put in a new chart on an analogue tacho, but you still have to account for the missing mileage and time. Drive over your hours and it's recorded. Speed,time and distance. Yes, drivers do falsify the records, you can't fiddle them, but the penalties are severe, upwards of a £1000 per offence. Foreign police are red hot on driver regs, and issue on the spot fines, the fact that this country doesn't do it is not the drivers fault.

 

British drivers are just as bad when they go "over the pond", they are trying to make a living in a cut-throat industry, and are guilty of breaching the same regs as the foreign drivers who come over here.

 

Drivers of motorhomes who go abroad on a regular basis, often come on here and complain about the foreign police, and the way traffic offenders are treated, you complain about police who fine you on the spot, and follow you to cash machines to get the money to pay, Oh how you moan, and yet you advocate impounding lorries if the driver hasn't got the cash to pay. Double standards spring to mind.

Overweight lorries, overweight motorhomes, any difference?, tired lorry drivers whose driving hours are recorded by legislation, or motorhomers driving whilst tired with no control over how long they can stay behind the wheel.

 

Television programmes like the one mentioned, only pick out the worst of the worst, it's supposedly for our entertainment.

 

There are 1000s of foreign trucks who deliver goods to our country, the vast majority are experienced professional drivers who have to, not only try to meet deadlines, but also to drive a vehicle intended for use on the other side of the road, Just as we do (if you have a RHD vehicle) when we go abroad. We then become the "foreign driver" who cant see properly on roundabouts or right hand turns. We expect "locals" in the country we are in, to realise this and make allowances, and yet not one person has mentioned this in defence of "foreign drivers" over here.

 

Yes, some drivers choose to flout,ignore or make up the rules, but it's not confined to foreign truck drivers, we all do it at some point, we use the excuse that " It's legal in Britain, so why should I change when I go abroad". Please remember foreigners take the same stance.

 

There is European legislation being considered concerning the fitting of tachos in ALL vehicles(which will include motorhomes) over 3500kgs. How soon do you think it will be before we get threads showing how to fiddle them when they affect us.

 

Be not so quick to condemn, lest WE become the condemned.

 

 

Donna, I don't very often agree with your postings in their entirety but in this case I couldn't agree more!

 

Well said that person! :-D :-D

 

D.

[Geof Angi]

Sorry

 

This has to be short or you could be reading my reply for hours.

 

I am a transport manager for a major world wide player and travel all over the British Isles looking after the compliance issues for my company, I would just like to say that I agree with Donna although she has her date for digi tachos wrong, they were required yo be fitted on all new trucks from Oct 2005 if memory serves me right, sorry but some one said about blindspot mirrors, again these are to be fitted to all new trucks (I think from Mid 2006) and to be retro fitted to older trucks depending on age over the next couple of years, also I believe it was tracker who pointed out about people driving to fast for there brain (or words to that effect), I can agree to a certain extent maybe it was driving artics all over Europe for 25 years that taught me to plan ahead, I am thinking several vehicles ahead when driving not the one in front and working out what could happen between me and that vehicle.

Fuel, back in the seventies and early eighties fuel in the UK was cheaper than in most of Europe and we used to have top and belly tanks so as to fill up before we went over and hope that we were not stopped by the French when we had declared only 200 litres (sound familiar) and fill the up again in Turkey to get us back to the UK. Several UK companies still make use of cheap crossings to run there vehicles over at the weekend to "top up" there tanks

Operation Mermaid, I think that if you check out the results of this joint Police, VOSA, Trading Standards, DVLA and HM Revnue operation in Cambridgeshire not that long ago you will find that out of 45 UK registered trucks stopped 21 were issued with probitoon or defect notes, this operation took place two months after the same type of sting was set up in Northamptonshire where again almost half of the trucks stopped (all UK registered) were flouting the law.

Now despite what I have said, above I do not condone what is happening out there as far as prosicution is concerened. And the UK courts can ban these drivers from driving in the UK as Herr Johann Reimer of Aachen can confirm, as he is spending 90 days in a UK prison for falling asleep at the wheel and crashing his truck into a concrete support of a bridge on the M25 in 2006, he was airlifted to hospital where he spent 3 months before getting back to Germany and another 7 months there before he could go back to work. Chelmsford magistrates court not only put him away but banned him from driving in the UK for 2 years, they also ruled that he could not drive in the UK until he has taken an extended retest in the UK.

And to show that the system works he was picked up and charged for the said incident at Dover when he tried to bring another truck into the UK

after he went back to work.

Sorry for the bore but as I said I could go on for hours on all aspects of this subject

 

Geof

[Don Madge]

Have a look at this then

 

http://www.rtvslo.si/mojvideo/cutmaster/tovornjakarji-so-carji-not/1136/

 

Don

[Patricia]

Breath-taking! Do I really want to go abroad next week!!? Really frightening.

 

How ever did you find this?