A/S Ravenna - Control Panel

[Dave Tayside]

I've just acquired an AutoSleepers Ravenna (2005 model). Although the Autosleeper handbook that came with it isn't all that clear with regard to the functions of the switches on the control panel mounted on the outside of the wardrobe, I've just about got all the functions figured out.

The one exception is a switch in the lower row. The outer switches are simply numbered 1 and 2 on the left and 3 and 4 on the right. This middle switch is marked "MASTER" it's center position is marked "OFF", upper position "HAB" (obviously Habitation) and lower position "VEHICLE". I've tried it in all three positions and it seems to have no effect on any of the electrical fittings in the van.

Can anyone throw any light on this mystery switch (?)

[roger s]

Ring the AS Service Centre at Wllersey 01386 853511 you will find them very helpfull

[Derek Uzzell]

Dave:

 

I echo Roger S's advice about this - though the quality of the advice you get may depend on to whom you speak!

 

I'm guessing that the 'mystery switch' selects which battery (Vehicle, Habitation or Neither) gets charged when the motorhome is hooked-up to a 230V power-supply. Your "I've tried it in all three positions and it seems to have no effect on any of the electrical fittings in the van" statement supports this theory. If you want to check this theory, then hook-up your motorhome to a mains supply and measure the voltage of the batteries at each switch-position. If the theory is correct, then, as the switch is moved from the OFF-position, the voltage of the respective VEHICLE or HABitation battery should rise significantly (to 13.8V-14.4V depending on charger-type/battery-type/state of charge).

 

(An alternative theory is that the 'mystery switch' selects which battery (Vehicle or Habitation) powers the motorhome's 12V electrical circuits. If this were correct (and the "MASTER" label suggests the possibility), then, in the switch's OFF-position, the 12V circuits (living-area lights, etc.) would only function if the motorhome were on 230V hook-up and the charger/transformer operating. Off hook-up, you'd need to move the switch to the VEHICLE or HAB position to get the 12V lights, water-pump, etc. to work. This arrangement is the kind traditionally used in caravans and, because it includes the possibility of ending up with a flat vehicle battery, is not a great idea for motorhomes. Nevertheless, I'm pretty sure A-S has used it historically.)

 

That your Auto-Sleepers handbook apparently fails to make clear the functionality of your Ravenna's control-panel is profoundly irritating.

 

A few years back there was an inquiry on this forum about whether there was the capability on A-S motorhomes to charge the Vehicle battery as well as the Habitation one. I received conflicting advice about this from the 'experts' on the A-S stand at an NEC Show and eventually managed to get an answer from the factory at Willersley. (The answer was "Yes", but only from a specific Model-Year onwards.) As I had been particularly scathing about the evident lack of information in the handbook I was put in touch with the A-S chap in charge of handbook content. He e-mailed me (for my 'approval') a copy of the revised battery-charging section that he planned to include in the handbook, but this was still ambiguous and incomplete and I distinctly remember rewriting it so that it made better sense and there was absolutely no doubt about its meaning.

 

There's some excuse for motorhome handbooks being 'funny' when they've been translated from a foreign language, but no excuse otherwise. If a motorhome owner is unable to understand, or has to guess at, something as essential and basic as what control-panel switches do, it makes one wonder about the mentality of the people who oversee handbook production.

[Dave Tayside]

Roger S & Derek - Many thanks for your replies.

I've filed the A-S phone number Roger just in case I need it in future.

 

Derek - your first guess appears to be correct and the switch seems to be directing charge to the habition battery or vehicle battery. I measured the voltage across the 12V habitation socket and noted a rise of a bit over 1V when the switch was on 'Hab' compared with when it was either in the OFF position on switched to VEHICLE.

I still want to do a few more tests, but haven't had time as we've been preparing the van for an escape to the Aviemore area tomorrow, It's taken far longer than I would have believed to load and reposition all the gear we had in our "old" van!

I have to agree with your comments about the user manuals produced by Auto-Sleepers. This is our second A-S van and the manual is even worse than the last one. Can't understand why decent photos can't be included and comprehensive step by steps guides written. I've written a lot of training documents for IT and have always worked on the principle that the reader "knows nowt".

 

Thanks again.

Dave

[naittaw]

Slightly off your topic but we too have a 2005 Ravenna, our second Ravenna. Can I caution that you take care when lifting and lowering the seat sqabs to get to the storage below. The linkage is connected by rivetts which break too easily and are not replaceable without dismantling the whole bed assembly. This has happened on both our Ravenna's and I have resorted to doing a botch job with nuts and bots but that is only partially satisfactory. You may also find that if your travel with grey water in the waste tank that it will come back up into the shower tray. Other than that it is a great van !

[marcob]

Hi Dave

I have an AutoSleeper, with the same control panel, yes the hand book is almost useless. It has taken me five years to decide how the switch works. so here goes, but yours my be different. In the HAB position the mains charge the habitation battery. In the vehicle position only the vehicle battery charges, but the habitation 12 volts do not work from this battery. Just been out to check on the van, In all three positions the 12 volts work of the habitation battery.

Very confusing I know.

Regards

[naittaw]

Dont understand why we're making it seem so complicated. The veh/hab switch only controls the onboard charger. In one position, on mains hook-up, the habitation battery is charged, in the other position the vehicle battery is charged, in the neutral position nothing is charged.

[BrianR]

naittaw - 2008-04-06 10:12 AM

 

Dont understand why we're making it seem so complicated. The veh/hab switch only controls the onboard charger. In one position, on mains hook-up, the habitation battery is charged, in the other position the vehicle battery is charged, in the neutral position nothing is charged.

 

Is this really "the" definitive statement? If so, this means that it is not possible to leave the 'van on hook-up, laid up, and keep both batteries topped up. Is this really the case?

[Derek Uzzell]

naittaw:

 

If Auto-Sleepers had the good grace to mark this pesky switch "BATTERY-CHARGER", rather than with the unhelpful word "MASTER", then I think most people would tend to assume its purpose would be as you've just explained. Even with the switch marked "MASTER", if A-S bothered to provide details in the motorhome's handbook of exactly what the switch is for (which, from the earlier comments, is evidently not the case), there would be no need for confusion.

 

Do you know, please, whether, when the VEHICLE-position of the MASTER-switch is selected, the full potential output of the onboard battery-charger is directed at the vehicle battery, or whether the output is limited?

 

The reason I ask is that a Ford Transit-based 2004-Ravenna-owning acquaintance had the vehicle battery's charge drop too low to start his motorhome's motor. I believe I recall him telling me that the onboard battery-charger could only bring up the charge slowly and eventually he had needed to borrow a 'booster pack' to jump start the engine. This could suggest that, when the VEHICLE-position is chosen, there's only a trickle-charge being provided to the vehicle battery.

[naittaw]

As I understand it it is unwise to have batteries continuously on charge during lay up. Better to switch charge on for 24 hours every ten days or fortnight. I certainly dried out a lesisure battery by leaving it on charge. Dont do it now.

[breakaleg]

naittaw - 2008-04-06 10:12 AM

 

Dont understand why we're making it seem so complicated. The veh/hab switch only controls the onboard charger. In one position, on mains hook-up, the habitation battery is charged, in the other position the vehicle battery is charged, in the neutral position nothing is charged.

 

Yep, thats it, i checked recently when i went to auto sleeper for a habitation service.

pete

[naittaw]

Derek,

Sorry, don't know the answer to your question. Will a trickle charge not bring the battery back to near full charge in 24 hours ?

[Derek Uzzell]

naittaw:

 

I suppose it depends on how one defines a trickle-charge in terms of Amperage.

 

My Hobby's CBE-manufactured onboard battery-charger has a 16A output. If all of this could be directed at a very flat, average capacity (say 75Ah) vehicle-battery, it could, in principle, fully recharge the thing in under 5 hours. However the Hobby's electrical system does not permit this, with the battery-charger giving priority to the habitation-battery until a certain level of charge has been attained, then automatically passing a maximum of 2A to the vehicle-battery. Assuming the same flat 75Ah vehicle-battery scenario, the Hobby's system would take well over 30 hours to recharge that battery fully. (Brian Kirby's remarks suggest that his Hobby Van has a similar system, as this arrangement means that both vehicle- and habitation-batteries get charged when the motorhome is on hook-up.) The charger's technical specification means that it should be 'safe' to leave my Hobby's batteries continuously on charge during lay-up, but I wouldn't do it myself (and I bet Brian doesn't either!) as I'm phobic about things like that and have a very healthy respect for Sod's Law.

 

I think my Ravenna-owning pal had anticipated getting enough electrical oomph into the vehicle-battery to get the vehicle going after a couple of hours of being on hook-up, but found this didn't happen. My 'reduced vehicle-battery charge-level' inquiry is probably a red herring, though it should be easy enough to check with an ammeter.

 

I believe one thing should be evident from this thread - of four owners of Auto-Sleepers motorhomes with this control-panel, one has taken 5 years to suss out how the MASTER-switch functions and two have felt it necessary to ask. This surely reflects badly on the A-S handbook's scope and/or clarity. While there will be characteristics of a motorhome one should not expect to find in an A-S handbook - the weak riveting and grey-water backing-up you mentioned, under-length screws used in furniture door-hinges, a tendency for habitation-windows to be poorly sealed against water ingress, the fresh water filler-pipe being split-prone on Transit-based Ravennas, etc. - I would have thought a clear, simple explanation of how the motorhome's batteries (and which ones) are charged should always be included.

[naittaw]

Having contributed to this thread "blind" as it were, and having just got back from an April Christmas wonderland in Aberdeenshire, I have just checked the control panel on my Ravenna (2005 on Peugeot), and the offending switch is clearly marked "charger". However comments on the User Manual are fully justified . We are on the whole pleased with the Ravenna, which is why we have a second one, but irked by the continuing and uncorrected problems - grey water slosh back and underbed linkage. I am surprised that anyone expects a "trickle charge" to revive a battery in 2 hours, but I have no techniecal expertise, and live by experience and advice on this forum !

[Derek Uzzell]

naittaw:

 

Presumably Dave Tayside's and the other posters' A-S switches are not marked CHARGER, otherwise the function of the switch should be uncontroversial.

 

I think my Ravenna-owning pal had anticipated that the full output of his motorhome's onboard charger, when aimed at the vehicle battery, would be capable of charging it enough in a couple of hours to get the vehicle started. Basically, he expected the vehicle battery to be receiving the charger's maximum output (10A?) and was surprised when the battery's charge-state remained too low to start the motorhome. Hence my inquiry, when the switch selects VEHICLE, is the battery-charger's output 'throttled down' to a trickle or does the vehicle-battery get a full helping?

 

I've looked back through our conversations about his Ravenna, but his comments about this seem to have disappeared. I do recall that he was right royally p*****-off at the time as, besides the battery being flat, his brand-new motorhome's rear lights weren't working (and subsequently needed rewiring), so it's quite possible that, in his hurry to get back to the A-S dealership and give them hell, a couple of hours charging is an over-estimate.

 

Had a vague feeling that grey-water coming back into the shower-tray was a defect recognised by the A-S factory and that there was a 'fix' involving introduction of a non-return valve into the hose between shower and waste-tank. Whatever the case, it's certainly possible to obtain non-return valves from CAK specifically intended to prevent the backing-up problem. The valves are advertised as being suitable for 20mm, 25mm or 38mm diameter hose and cost around a tenner. Might be worth checking this out with Auto-Sleepers as it's an unpleasant fault.

[naittaw]

Derek,

I had a non-return valve fitted on the last Ravenna by the local large A/S dealership. It was ineffective and the dealership basically did not want to know and seemed to doubt my version of events, preferring to believe that I was allowing the waste tank to overfill. After one nasty experience with the present Ravenna I have resorted to having the tank empty or almost empty before moving. A nuisance but better than mopping up !

[Dave Tayside]

Thanks to all the contributors to the thread, the function of my "Mystery Switch" has been identified. Had it been marked "Charger" as in Naittaw's Ravenna instead of "Master" as in my Ravenna things would have been crystal clear from the outset.

It's quite remarkable that a company can spend lots of money producing glossy SALES brochures, but can't produce half decent user manuals. In fact when one considers how easy it is to produce downloadable/updateable manuals, A-S and other builders seem to be living in the Dark Ages.

 

Back to the saga of our Ravenna >

 

We picked up the van from the dealer (about half a mile away) on 1st April and on 5th rose early intending to head off to Aviemore by about 9.30am. All packed and ready to roll - turned starter switch and got just a brief grunt! Ended up getting a nice man from the AA to jump start us though it was 11.00 by the time we finally left.

I took a volt meter with me and monitored the van battery voltage while we were away and it looks like the battery is duff as despite a couple of longish sessions on charge via the "Mystery Switch" the voltage barely exceeded 12V.

The "Mystery Switch" came into it's own though, as it enabled me to put the battery on charge all night on our last evening on site which provided enough power to get the van started for our return trip.

I'll be phoning the dealer tomorrow to see if they'll replace the battery, its not covered in the guarantee, but I reckon that under "Sale of Goods ... Fit for purpose", I should be able to get it replaced.

 

Somewhat off thread, but a byproduct of our trip -

When we were checking in to the site the manager was outside speaking to a young couple who had arrived shortly before us. When he came into the office he told us that the couple had just bought their van and driven up from the north of England. On pitching up they discovered that there was no gas bottle or hook up cable with the van. This says something about the dealer and the two poor souls who didn't have a quick, all systems, trial run at home before leaving. The site couldn't provide gas or cable and sadly the van had left before we could offer them our spare hook up cable or gas bottle. *-)