Spare Wheel.

[Guest Tracker]

We have always carried a 12v tyre pumper upper in case of a puncture and it is much easier to plug it in and let it whir away while you sit and have a nice cuppa than it is to struggle with changing a wheel at the roadside.

 

It occurs to me that as most punctures are not generally rapid deflations this is an alternative get you home solution for those vans with no spare wheel.

 

It would avoid the use of the dreaded foam aerosol in a lot of cases and should give you enough wind to get to a tyre depot where, with luck, the puncture can be repaired instead of the tyre discarded and a new one bought - always assuming that they have one in stock?

 

It may not always work but I reckon it is always worth a try.

[fjmike]

Good point tracker,I once did this with aslow puncture on a motorcycle stopping at every garage forcourt and putting a bit more in the tyre, it got me home some 30 odd miles. Myself I'm playing safe a bit with Ultraseal in the tyres. Lidls have had a very good 12v compressor on their specials in the past more than man enough for motorhome tyres

[colin]

The 'juddervan' has electric pump+sealer, so I suppose you could just try pump alone

[Derek Uzzell]

Electric tyre-pumps, Ultraseal-type products or 'Fix-&-Go' aerosols won't save your bacon if a tyre-valve fails as it did on my Transit-based Hobby last year. Fortunately the Hobby is equipped with a spare-wheel: unfortunately, the tyre-valve on the opposite rear wheel failed shortly after the first valve had given up the ghost and the Hobby is NOT equipped with two spare wheels. At least I was able to fit the spare wheel on one end of the rear axle and place a jack under the other end to avoid having the motorhome squat on two flattened tyres for 48 hours before the valves could be replaced. This would not have been an option with a 2008-model Ford-based Hobby, however, as the spare wheel has been ditched for a tyre repair kit.

 

Like Tracker, I've always carried a 12V tyre-pump in the motorhome - though I've never (yet) needed to use it to top-up a slow puncture. It's perhaps worth highlighting that the cable length of 'car-suitable' tyre pumps may be insufficient to reach from a dashboard-mounted 12V power-supply to a motorhome's rear wheels.

[Don Madge]

I think a lot depends on what type of touring you do. :-D We spend a lot of time in Turkey, Eastern Europe and Greece so would not be without a spare wheel. :-D

 

If you potter around the UK and France then I supposes it might be worthwhile have your tyres sealed.

 

Many motorhome punctures are catastrophic blow outs 8-). I would not want to try and source a spare wheel at the weekend in places like Austria and Germany where everything still closes down.

 

You pay your money and take your chances :-D

 

Safe travelling.

 

Don

[Guest Tracker]

Blow outs are very very rare these days and only usually occur on old tyres that have suffered a lot of sunlight ultra violet degradation and that sometimes have visibly cracked and crazed side walls.

 

These old tyres, in spite of often having an almost new look and plenty of tread, are generally well beyond their safe design age and the safest way to avoid trouble is to check the manufacture date on the side walls and buy good quality replacement new tyres every four years or so.

 

Expensive I know but not as expensive or inconvenient as having a blow out.

 

Thanks Derek - I forgot to mention having a pump with a long enough power lead, or extension lead, to reach the 12v socket.

[Basil]

I have to disagree with you here Tracker, having experienced a failure that resulted in a total destruction of a new tyre, plus the motorhome side fairings, the step and some of the floor, on the M20 doing 65 to 70mph, this was the subject of a post at the time. The tyre pressure had been checked around 1 hour earlier and was correct. There is absolutely no way that Ultraseal or one of the pump up kits would have been of any use whatsoever, (I use Ultraseal in my motorcycle tyres so I have no dislike for it).

IMO there is no substitute for a spare wheel and I would not buy a van without.

 

Bas

[Guest Tracker]

Fair enough Basil, you were unlucky to have the blow out but lucky enough to survive unscathed, and I wonder how many other members have experienced a blow out and whether it was a new or an old tyre that 'went'?

 

I agree nothing will ever save a tyre that disintegrates - unless it disintegrates due to over heating due to a puncture, in which Ultra Seal might have saved it?

 

But I agree there is no substitute for the peace of mind afforded by a reliable and inflated spare wheel and tyre.

 

Are the wheels and tyres on the new vans the same size, offset and PCD as their respective earlier versions as that opens up the possibility of getting a spare from a breaker - as long as t fits, you have somewhere to mount it, the mechanism to carry it, and the spare load capacity for it's not inconsiderable weight?

 

I am not suggesting that a puncture is what might have happened to your tyre, by the way!

[Don Madge]

This carrier is available for the Ducato.

[colinfrier]

If blow outs are rare I guess I am just unlucky I had a recent rapid deflation on my 4x4 ruined the tyre thank god I had a spare no amount of gunge would have fixed it by the time i stopped from 50mph tyre was shoot.

Colin Frier

[Guest Tracker]

colinfrier - 2008-04-05 7:37 PM

 

If blow outs are rare I guess I am just unlucky I had a recent rapid deflation on my 4x4 ruined the tyre thank god I had a spare no amount of gunge would have fixed it by the time i stopped from 50mph tyre was shoot.

Colin Frier

 

Rare is a subjective word!

 

In the context of how many vehicles and the multiples of tyres that are on the roads at any one time the number that blow or suffer sudden deflation is a very very small percentage.

 

However that is small consolation if it is yours that is the one that goes and would be even less comforting if you don't have a spare.

[Moncayoman]

Just to put my oar in.......

 

Carrying a spare wheel seems a sensible contingency, rather have one and never need it than need it and not have one.

 

On the subject of what causes blow outs I have no definitive answer, but age and condition must have something to do with it. My advice is :

 

The little bit of rubber at the bottom of your motorhome is all that keeps you in contact with the road. So when comparing the cost of replacing your tyres, consider this as a percentage of the value of your M/H. I have seen some very expensive vehicles of all kinds, being driven with some very tired tyres (no pun intended).

 

So check them regularly, replace them regularly, a good quality camping chair can be as expensive as a good quality tyre ! No guarantees that a blow out wont occur, but a bit of risk reduction perhaps.

 

And a final point....if you have a puncture on the motorway..don't use the hard shoulder to change it for the spare, at least not without notifying the Highways Agency on the roadside telephone boxes. Better still get your recovery operator out and get towed off the motorway or let them do it with the added protection of their vehicle behind you.

 

Sounds all straight forward eh? But you still see people crouched at the side of their vehicles alongside a live lane of motorway traffic concentrating on getting wheel nuts off !!

 

take care out there.

 

 

 

[Mel E]

Two points, if I may:

 

1. To Tracker: there is absolutely no need to replace tyres every 4 years unless they have been subjected to very adverse conditions (e.g., a trip across the Sahara). Tyre manufacturers recommend between 7 and 10 years depending on manufacturer.

 

2. It's important to understand that tyre sealants come in two types: (a) the gunge ones that you apply to a deflated tyre and which also pump it up - I would never rely on one of these and tyre fitters hate them because of the mess they make, and (b) the Ultraseal type that are injected into a tyre from new and prevent deflation by sealing any hole that is up to 6mm in diameter - they also allow reasonable speeds and have been tested for many thousands of miles. They do NOT leave gunge inside the tyre which can be replaced normally. A side benefot is that they stop the very gradual loss in inflation that normally occurs with tyres. I use ultraseal and have had no problems so far in 18,000 miles. However, I would carry a spare if I was driving in countries with marginal roads such as Turkey - but this probably applies also to the UK these days!

 

Mel E

====

[rupert123]

Don Madge - 2008-04-05 7:35 PM

 

This carrier is available for the Ducato.

 

Where ?

[Brian Kirby]

Just a little warning to those whose vans are equipped with gunge and pump in lieu of a spare.  Do have a proper look at the pump!  Our van was so equipped when we got it, but I bought a spare in preference to relying on the supplied equipment.

However, I recently thought it might be worth carrying just the pump, to use for topping up alone the way.  Not so!  It seems it can only achieve a maximum pressure of 29psi, which is insufficient for even the front tyres.  It must not be operated continually for more than 6 minutes (I think it melts after that time!).  I think it would probably take around a week to fully inflate a flat 175 x 16 tyre to even 29psi, stopping every 6 minutes to let the pump cool down.

Incidentally, if used with the gunge for a repair, you should then re-check pressure after every 10 minutes driving time, (you also have to drive slowly due to gunge and underinflated tyres) presumably because of the risk the tyre will still be losing air.  Just imagine being on a French autoroute on a Sunday with a puncture.  Would'nt be on the ferry, would you?  Leastways, not that Sunday!  :-)

[Guest Tracker]

Mel E - 2008-04-06 5:13 PM

 

Two points, if I may:

1. To Tracker: there is absolutely no need to replace tyres every 4 years unless they have been subjected to very adverse conditions (e.g., a trip across the Sahara). Tyre manufacturers recommend between 7 and 10 years depending on manufacturer.

====

 

Quite so Mel, but whilst the cost of new tyres is still affordable my personal preference is for tyres I can depend on and I will stick to getting new 'uns when the old 'uns are 4 or five years old thanks!

[Derek Uzzell]

rupert123:

 

You asked where the spare-wheel carrier shown in Don Madge's photo could be obtained.

 

This is the standard carrier used on current factory-built Citroen Relay/Jumper, Fiat Ducato and Peugeot Boxer ladder-chassis, so you'd obtain it via a Citroen, Fiat or Peugeot main agent.

 

The lowering/raising mechanism uses a winch and cable arrangement rather like that employed on Ford Transits (though, hopefully, better engineered!). You'll note from Don's photo that the carrier itself is pretty substantial, as is the 'winch' bolted to the right-hand longitudinal chassis member, so the cost of the complete assembly won't be trivial. I don't know how the latest SEVEL panel-vans carry their spare wheels (I assume they can carry them?), though Andy Stothert should be able to say. Latest Fiat motorhomes with AL-Ko chassis may well have the spare wheel cradle-mounted in the traditional manner.

 

Tracker mentions the possibility of retro-fitting a spare wheel to a new motorhome supplied without one. I'm unaware whether the wheels on Project X/250 SEVEL chassis are identical dimensionally to those of pre-2006 models. The 15" tyre size remains unaltered at 215/70 R15C, while the 16" tyre's profile has been changed from 215/75 to 225/75. If you can obtain a suitable wheel/tyre, and own a garage-design motorhome like Brian Kirby's Hobby Van, then storing the spare wheel should be straightforward enough. However, problems may arise if it proves necessary to mount the spare wheel below the chassis. Though a carrier may be available, a motorhome manufacturer who has embraced the 'no spare-wheel' philosophy may have chosen to exploit the space beneath the vehicle and fitted a whopping waste-water tank just where the spare wheel would normally be housed. Even if it's practicable to shoe-horn the wheel and winch-mechanism in, it may still be virtually impossible to operate the mechanism if the motorhome converter has not allowed for its presence. If the SEVEL winch is intended to be operated from the side of the vehicle (as is the case on my Hobby), then the well-extended bodywork and lowered side skirts that are the norm on coachbuilt motorhome designs may make accessing the spare-wheel a nightmare.

 

I doubt that there are reliable statistics available relating to the causes of tyre failures. My own view is that, although some 'blow outs' of motorhome tyres will be due to age, manufacturing faults, over-loading, or unsuitable inflation pressure, most will result from immediate or existing damage to the tyre.

 

I had a car tyre explosively deflate when a flat piece of metal lying on the road surface sliced straight through the tread. (I know this was so because, when the tyre was removed from the wheel, the piece of metal was inside it!) My neighbour, driving at night on a motorway, hit debris that punctured his car's front tyre, then punctured the following rear tyre and took a chunk out of the alloy wheel.

 

These are extreme examples, but, unless your vehicle is equipped with tyre-pressure monitors, it's not always easy to detect that a tyre is punctured and gradually deflating, particularly if it's a rear tyre. My wife drove her car with a rear-tyre slow puncture for over a week, at the end of which there was hardly any pressure in the tyre and hardly any tread on it either. (A long story for which I accept most of the blame.) When I had the tyre-valve problem last year, hindsight tells me that I must have driven quite some distance with a well-deflated rear tyre, but I can't say I noticed any significant handling differences that might have alerted me to the problem. In both cases, if the lowered-pressure tyres had been treated hard enough (had been subjected to extended fast motorway driving, for instance), they would inevitably have failed massively.

 

And now for something completely different...

 

I was looking through Fiat's "Ducato Motorhome" advertising leaflet to see if there was anything useful in it about spare-wheel carriers. As many people will be aware, Project X/250 has produced a Ducato cab-unit (and cowl unit) that has a 'standard' ladder chassis welded to it on the Italian factory assembly-line, the end result of which (in UK Fiat-speak) is a "leisure time chassis-cab". There's also an alternative SEVEL ladder chassis - lighter, lower and with wider rear track - that when factory-welded to the cab-unit, makes up a "special leisure time chassis-cab". Based on the leaflet's photos, it's interesting to note that the standard chassis is constructed from two vertical steel 'layers', whereas the special chassis appears to be formed from the lower layer only, dispensing completely with the hefty upper layer.

 

Don Madge's photo is of a standard '2-layer' chassis and, running across the photo near the top, the flange where the two layers are joined together can easily be seen. Discarding the deep upper layer must save a good deal of weight on the special chassis, but must also radically reduce its rigidity. Presumably, when the special chassis is used for a motorhome, stiffness is reintroduced when the coachbuilt body is added. As the special, lower floor-level chassis clearly has a lot less steel in it than the standard chassis, I wonder if it's cheaper for motorhome manufacturers to buy.

[rupert123]

Thanks for that Derek. Not sure about all Fiat based motorhomes but know none of the Swift ones currently come with a spare wheel, at least that was the case just before the end of last year. They told me they order the base vehicle without the carrier. It can be supplied as an extra but is expensive so would assume you could buy the parts and get it done. However I have driven a car now for over two years that does not have a spare so although would prefer one does not bother me. I have the tyres filled with a sealer and carry the emergency kit in case but have never needed it. If a blowout occured would simply call out rescue, yes I have asked them, and provided the vehicle is not provded with as spare as new they will attend as normal, this is Brittania rescue.