New Fiat based M/H

[rupert123]

I have just purchased a new Fiat based m/h knowing full well all the adverse reports about juddering, water ingress. Why did I buy it, well because all the vans we liked and could afford were Fiat based and I still think problem is over hyped on this forum. Most m/h buying decisions are based on the accomodation part not base vehicle anyway but I did drive a couple of Renault based vans and one transit base, the Fiat without any doubt drives much better than both of these. We have just returned from a twelve day trip that we used as a test to make sure all was well, including reverseing up a hill. Having just changed from an older Fiat, 2004 model, I have to say the clutch is a lot more sensitive and my first go it juddered a bit. However I realised that perhaps I have been reading to much about this and found I was watching the rev counter, something I have not done since my motor racing days. So had another go just driving as normal using what everyone does simple balancing revs and clutch feed and it reversed with no problem at all and has continued to do so. I checked for water ingress and nothing so all is fine here. The mods have been done I assume, as they are not obvious, and certainly not some bodged on solution, there is an engine cover in place as well. The van performed very well and we are pleased with it, so anyone who has one on order I would not worry to much. NOW BEFORE ANYONE SCREAMS I fully accept that some people have problems and need them resolving but it would seem it is not wide spread or could have been sorted out but Fiat are not yet admitting this, surely not!

[Exustrek]

Nice one Rupert, i'm happy for you.

 

I've read similar reports from happy owners over on Facts, only for the judder to manifest itself a few weeks or months later, i hope yours doesn't BTW.

 

Anyone who buys a Fiat X250 based motorhome armed with the reports from fellow motorhomers of judder, thump on start up & engine bay leaks etc etc is taking a gamble, it's your money.

 

Bryan

[dshague]

rupert123  would you please tell us witch fiat model you bought .ie number of gears witch multijet .thanks

[Mel E]

Bryan, you're a bundle of joy - well done to Rupert followed by the immediate backswing!

 

Since some 70% of coach built motorhomes are on the Fiat Chassis, you really are restricting your choice if you count them all out.

 

I fully accept some are suffering from judder, etc., - but not all, as it would affect about 7,000 motorhomes sold in the UK just last year, not to mention Fiat/Citroen/Peugeot vans, and this is clearly not the case.

 

I fully sympathise with the sufferers, and hope Fiat sort it out quickly, as I'm sure all the converters do. But let's keep some perspective on this!

 

Mel E

====

[Exustrek]

Mel E - 2008-04-30 6:02 PM

 

Bryan, you're a bundle of joy

 

Mel E

====

 

Thank you Mel.

 

I'm merely suggesting that the fact that there are over 100 cases known to this forum alone, that it would be wise to proceed with caution, wouldn't you agree?

 

I was going to say don't touch one with a barge pole but thought better of it.

 

If anyone's interested in a lovely, nearly new Dethleffs based on the Fiat X250 i'm prepared to consider sensible offers.

 

Bryan

[rupert123]

dshague - 2008-04-30 5:45 PM

 

rupert123  would you please tell us witch fiat model you bought .ie number of gears witch multijet .thanks

 

Swift Sundance five speed 2.2 litre.

[Tomo3090]

Before you sell your pride and joy Bryan, how many times have you had to reverse it up a hill? (before Andy suggested testing it!) I am not trying to detract from the problems SOME people have had but we drove round Southern England, France & Spain for 12 weeks last year, plus used it this year and in the 9000 miles I have driven I have never once had to reverse up a hill!

 

True, one day I might have to, but I'll face that then and only if I can't do a different manouvere.

 

It's not all bad you know! :-S

[Exustrek]

rupert123 - 2008-04-30 10:30 PM

 

dshague - 2008-04-30 5:45 PM

 

rupert123  would you please tell us witch fiat model you bought .ie number of gears witch multijet .thanks

 

Swift Sundance five speed 2.2 litre.

 

It's thought that the 5 speed box is less of a problem so your advice carries no weight & will be of little interest to prospective purchasers of the camping car chassis with 6 speed box.

 

Informative nonetheless for those looking for a 2.2 litre 5 speed.

 

Bryan

[Exustrek]

rupert123 - 2008-04-30 10:30 PM

 

dshague - 2008-04-30 5:45 PM

 

rupert123  would you please tell us witch fiat model you bought .ie number of gears witch multijet .thanks

 

Swift Sundance five speed 2.2 litre.

 

It's thought that the 5 speed box is less of a problem so your advice carries no weight & will be of little interest to prospective purchasers of the camping car chassis with 6 speed box.

 

Informative nonetheless for those looking for a 2.2 litre 5 speed.

 

Bryan

[Exustrek]

Tomo3090 - 2008-05-01 10:14 AM

 

Bryan, how many times have you had to reverse it up a hill? (before Andy suggested testing it!)

 

True, one day I might have to, but I'll face that then and only if I can't do a different manouvere.

 

It's not all bad you know! :-S

 

Every trip in or out of the drive.

 

At first i just thought it was a rough ride, it didn’t seem right but what did i know? It wasn’t until i heard the symptoms of this juddering described & recognized them as the same as ours & of course Andy’s wrecked gearbox, i realized the long term damage that was probably happening to our van.

 

I’ll continue to use the van & enjoy it, so as you say, it’s not all bad & i made the ‘for sale’ statement to provoke some sort of response, ‘cos let’s face it, you’d need your head examined to pay huge amounts of money for a van with well known serious issues.

 

To suggest that because one can avoid a reversing manoeuvre & therefore avoid this problem doesn’t sound like a satisfactory resolution to this whole sorry mess in my opinion, if i don’t like the free water feature under the bonnet should i then also move to Spain to avoid the rain? Bizarre

 

I’ve heard all sorts of dismissive comments, ‘you’re not driving it properly’ ‘It’s only SOME, it’s not widespread’ ‘If Andy hadn’t suggested testing it’ etc etc. The fact remains that these vehicles have a serious design fault, regardless of who said what.

 

If Fiat were to come up with a fix I’d put money on those who say they’re happy & don’t have a problem to be first in line for the fix they say they don’t want or need.

 

It’s only my intention to keep this matter at the front of people’s minds, especially prospective purchasers, it’s something i feel strongly about & will respond to any comments that appear to make light of the situation / problem.

 

There’s nothing personal going on here, my only dissatisfaction is with Fiat & people are free to ignore any comments i might make, however, people would do well to make themselves aware of the problems the FIAT X250 has before making a decision. If i help just one person avoid all this hassle then I’ll be a happy man.

 

Bryan

 

[rupert123]

Exustrek - 2008-05-01 7:12 PM

 

rupert123 - 2008-04-30 10:30 PM

 

dshague - 2008-04-30 5:45 PM

 

rupert123  would you please tell us witch fiat model you bought .ie number of gears witch multijet .thanks

 

Swift Sundance five speed 2.2 litre.

 

It's thought that the 5 speed box is less of a problem so your advice carries no weight & will be of little interest to prospective purchasers of the camping car chassis with 6 speed box.

 

Informative nonetheless for those looking for a 2.2 litre 5 speed.

 

Bryan

 

Bryan I do understand your problem but you do not seem to accept that most do not have the problem. Their have been some instances of five speed having the same symptons. However anyone who has what seems to be serious problems I would fully back, I am in no way trying to say you are wrong just explaining my own experience, as indeed you are. All car forums I follow are full of problems, after all this is what they are mainly about, and no one who reads any of them would buy cars involved if they took everything written as 'the whole truth'. This emphasis on problems always creates a false impression of the product overall. Take the Fiat water problem on latest models this has been fully fixed, not with a tempory fix but a properly engineered solution. Now I appreciate this does not help owners with early models but equally should not put off future prospective buyers.

[RoyH]

Well said Bryan

 

I don't have one of these and now have no intention of ever having one

 

As a professional commercial fleet engineer for 25 years before I retired 12 years ago I know all about new models having design faults and these obviously have something wrong. There is no point saying "I'll never have to reverse up a hill" because, as sure as eggs are eggs, you will, at the worst possible time. So keep up the pressure until the manufacturer accepts their responsibilities and provides an answer to this.

[Exustrek]

Rupert

 

You're quite right, i don't accept that most do not have this problem, you yourself have said that your van judders.

 

What i do accept is that most are not aware of the seriousness of the issue or that most are happy to accept this characteristic & adapt the use of their van to compensate for the vehicle's failings.

 

Who is it that says MOST don't judder? i'm intrigued, Fiat themselves say that ALL DO share this characteristic, i have the letter from FIAT UK right here in front of me, how could you persuade me otherwise when FIAT inform me that they are all the same & my own van judders. The experience of my own vehicle & that of over 100 others i've been in contact with & this statement from Fiat is all the perspective i need.

 

I accept that new vehicles may have teething troubles, what i find unacceptable is Fiat's refusal to offer reassurance & put things right for those that need it.

 

Bryan

 

 

[Guest Tracker]

I wish every owner of a new van the very best of luck but do be aware that burying your head in the sand to a design issue can leave your bum very exposed to a good kicking when the warranty expires!

[Exustrek]

Take the Fiat water problem on latest models this has been fully fixed, not with a tempory fix but a properly engineered solution. Now I appreciate this does not help owners with early models but equally should not put off future prospective buyers.

 

Rupert, where do you get this information?

 

There's a lady over on facts who has just picked up a brand new April '08 3.0 litre Automatic, she took the time to fill in the vehicle database on the site, here's what she says.....

 

No engine cover

Split Scuttle

Rusty Injectors

Rusty Alternator

 

That doesn't sound like a properly engineered solution to me, as i said before, prospective buyers beware.

 

I don't like to sound as if i'm having a pop but you seem to have alot of faith in FIAT, do they deserve it?

 

Bryan

[RoyH]

It doesn't surprise me that this lady has an April 08 vehicle with the old faults. In Nov 2004 I bought a May 02 reg Lunar Roadstar and when I studied the paperwork the chassis had actually been signed out of Fiat in Oct 01 so although unregistered until Lunar built and sold the whole vehicle the Fiat part was 6 months old to start with.

[colin]

Auto has only just come out, so no excuse there.

[rupert123]

Exustrek - 2008-05-01 9:00 PM

 

Rupert

 

You're quite right, i don't accept that most do not have this problem, you yourself have said that your van judders.

 

What i do accept is that most are not aware of the seriousness of the issue or that most are happy to accept this characteristic & adapt the use of their van to compensate for the vehicle's failings.

 

Who is it that says MOST don't judder? i'm intrigued, Fiat themselves say that ALL DO share this characteristic, i have the letter from FIAT UK right here in front of me, how could you persuade me otherwise when FIAT inform me that they are all the same & my own van judders. The experience of my own vehicle & that of over 100 others i've been in contact with & this statement from Fiat is all the perspective i need.

 

I accept that new vehicles may have teething troubles, what i find unacceptable is Fiat's refusal to offer reassurance & put things right for those that need it.

 

Bryan

 

 

No what I said was it juddered on the first go, when I reverted to driving normally it was fine, suggest you read post properly.

[rupert123]

Exustrek - 2008-05-01 9:31 PM

 

Take the Fiat water problem on latest models this has been fully fixed, not with a tempory fix but a properly engineered solution. Now I appreciate this does not help owners with early models but equally should not put off future prospective buyers.

 

Rupert, where do you get this information?

 

There's a lady over on facts who has just picked up a brand new April '08 3.0 litre Automatic, she took the time to fill in the vehicle database on the site, here's what she says.....

 

No engine cover

Split Scuttle

Rusty Injectors

Rusty Alternator

 

That doesn't sound like a properly engineered solution to me, as i said before, prospective buyers beware.

 

I don't like to sound as if i'm having a pop but you seem to have alot of faith in FIAT, do they deserve it?

 

Bryan

 

This is not information I got, it is from opening the bonnet of my own van and looking. Again read the post rather than putting your own interpretation on it. My own van has no sign of water ingress and has been through some very heavy rain in last ten days. I have no more faith in Fiat than anyone else but I simple do not have the problems early models had and can only suggest that although the case you quote was an 08 the bodywork was from an earlier build and lastest fixes had not been done. I simply wrote a report from my experience of the van as a few people on this forum have been worried over orders placed, probably without cause. All they have to do is what I did, open the bonnet and check.

[Exustrek]

rupert123 - 2008-05-01 10:57 PM

 

Exustrek - 2008-05-01 9:00 PM

 

Rupert

 

You're quite right, i don't accept that most do not have this problem, you yourself have said that your van judders.

 

What i do accept is that most are not aware of the seriousness of the issue or that most are happy to accept this characteristic & adapt the use of their van to compensate for the vehicle's failings.

 

Who is it that says MOST don't judder? i'm intrigued, Fiat themselves say that ALL DO share this characteristic, i have the letter from FIAT UK right here in front of me, how could you persuade me otherwise when FIAT inform me that they are all the same & my own van judders. The experience of my own vehicle & that of over 100 others i've been in contact with & this statement from Fiat is all the perspective i need.

 

I accept that new vehicles may have teething troubles, what i find unacceptable is Fiat's refusal to offer reassurance & put things right for those that need it.

 

Bryan

 

 

No what I said was it juddered on the first go, when I reverted to driving normally it was fine, suggest you read post properly.

 

Rupert, you're picking hairs, a judder is a judder.

 

As i said in an earlier post.............

 

most are happy to accept this characteristic & adapt the use of their van to compensate for the vehicle's failings.

 

So we agree.

 

Bryan

 

 

[Exustrek]

rupert123 - 2008-05-01 11:09 PM

 

Exustrek - 2008-05-01 9:31 PM

 

Take the Fiat water problem on latest models this has been fully fixed, not with a tempory fix but a properly engineered solution. Now I appreciate this does not help owners with early models but equally should not put off future prospective buyers.

 

Rupert, where do you get this information?

 

There's a lady over on facts who has just picked up a brand new April '08 3.0 litre Automatic, she took the time to fill in the vehicle database on the site, here's what she says.....

 

No engine cover

Split Scuttle

Rusty Injectors

Rusty Alternator

 

That doesn't sound like a properly engineered solution to me, as i said before, prospective buyers beware.

 

I don't like to sound as if i'm having a pop but you seem to have alot of faith in FIAT, do they deserve it?

 

Bryan

 

This is not information I got, it is from opening the bonnet of my own van and looking. Again read the post rather than putting your own interpretation on it. My own van has no sign of water ingress and has been through some very heavy rain in last ten days. I have no more faith in Fiat than anyone else but I simple do not have the problems early models had and can only suggest that although the case you quote was an 08 the bodywork was from an earlier build and lastest fixes had not been done. I simply wrote a report from my experience of the van as a few people on this forum have been worried over orders placed, probably without cause. All they have to do is what I did, open the bonnet and check.

 

Rupert, you seem to suggest that because your van is new & OK that all new vans are OK, am i not being critisized for the same thing in reverse?

 

Bryan

[Itexuk]

I think this tread has gone way over the top and is well out of order. My 07 Mobilvetta is on the new Fiat base and yes is does vibrate a little in reverse but it is only a little. Due to this thread my MH is now worth less than it should be.

 

THANKS

[rupert123]

OK Brian have it your way. I only intended to report on my own experience to say all is not bad news and will not get into a war over it, I am amazed that anyone could take offence at what is only a short road test report. Anyone coming in here please read my original post which is simply a report on my own new van and is not intended in any way to say people who bought early versions of this base vehicle are wrong just that new ones coming in now seem to be ok. I suspect the last reply who states the thread is undermining their vans value has not read my original post and indeed has not read Andys posts.

[Playtime]

Playing devils advocate. Perhaps it's a case of the old Friday afternoon syndrome, i.e. the workers assembling the gears boxes have switched off and are ready for the w/end and therefore poor output. 'cos clearly it isn't happening to all vehicles.

 

Just a thought.

 

R

[Exustrek]

Rupert

 

I'm not looking for confrontation, & i'm happy that you're satisfied with your van.

 

What you said in your original post is that the judder issue is being over hyped & that anyone looking to buy a new X250 should not worry because you believe that Fiat seem to have now sorted out the problems of earlier models. Do you or anyone else really think this is good advice? These are the points we disagree on, not the fact that your van is OK, as i said i'm glad you don't have a problem with your vehicle, why would i be offended by that?

 

New X250's are still being produced & sold with all the reported fundamental faults, including judder, Fiat are refusing to do anything to help their customers, this is all fact, buyer beware.

 

Bryan