C&CC Ferry Prices Warning

[geoff]

Earlier this year I was informed that Norfolkline were offering really good prices to Caravan Club members. In my own case a return trip for only £52 !

 

The Camping &Caravan Club price for a similair crossing with Sea France was a good £20 dearer so I asked for, and obtained, a price match from the C&CC.

 

After contacting the marketing department of Norfolkline to ask why they could not offer C&CC members similair low rates I was informed that Norfolkline have approached C&CC and that C&CC have declined to offer Norfolkline services to its members.I quote:-

 

"Norfolkline would very much like to offer our services to The Camping and Caravan Club, unfortunately they have made a commercial decision not to offer Norfolkline as an alternative carrier on the channel. We have approached them again to work with us in 2008 and Im afraid they have declined our offer."

 

Could it be that the club receives a commission from Sea France and that, that commision is paid for by its members having to pay an inflated price on each and every crossing ? I suspect it is !

 

As a member of C&CC I consider that by failing to obtain the best prices for its members, they are not acting in our best interests and I am calling on all members and potential members to join me in demanding that the club allows members the opportunity to obtain the lower ferry prices which are enjoyed by members of the CC

 

 

 

8o|

[Brambles]

Hi Geoff,

Last week I booked my summer crossings with Seafrance.

I started off looking at various crossings on the SeaFrance site, and established most ecomonical fares and times that suited us mid morning going and mid afternoon return. Various dates - big difference between dates,

Anyway got a price approx £90 total.

Then the CCC site and price was over £100.

Next I checked a few other cheap ferry sites - all over £100.

So next I tried going direct and entering discount code as I am a member of CSMA and wow!!! price fell to £70. I believe CSMA pass on the savings or most of them so that means CCC must be making about 30% I reckon.

Who knows, but they are making something larger than is really benefiting us, going direct to Seafrance is cheaper.

 

Then I tried linking to the Seafrance site via shopping portal I have signed up to and my shop front is http://www.Ei42/brambles. Its a cash back site and is pretty darn good as totally free. Anyway, I linked through to Seafrance, entered CSMA discount code and booked my £70 crossings and got a couple of pounds back in commssion on my shop portal account into the bargain.

When I checked the same dates with Norfolk line online they were much more expensive. I think dates and times can make a massive difference to the best ferry to cross on for price and I found unsociable hours fro crossing only saved £10 in total.

 

Just some useless information but may help someone.

Incidently it is well worth while looking at the shop portal I mentioned, totally free to sign up and no catches, but the pennies add up on everything you buy, be it Amazon, Ebay or any place else listed.

 

Jon.

 

[geoff]

Just to clarify matters, the prices I obtained were for unsocial hours, off peak dates, and for bookings which were made made over the Xmas period.

My point is that if the Caravan Club can offer discounts then the Camping & Caraavan Club should offer the same, Particularly as Norfolkline has offered them to the club !

[Brambles]

Totally agree they should. They call themselves a club so should be acting for our benefit and giving us as many discounts as they can get. Start playing games with limiting offers to manipulated profits forthe club usually backfires at some point, and I suspect they get less bookings via the club site than they would if they negotiated bigger discounts for members and less for themselves.

Jon

[indigo]

It just always pays to compare all the online and other methods of booking.

I found that for the tunnel it was cheaper for me to book direct with the eurotunnel website than through the Caravan Club

[Guest Tracker]

I have always found that it is much easier and often cheaper, or at worst no more expensive, to book direct with either Sea France, Norfolk Lines or Eurotunnel - depending on who wants your business the most on the day.

 

Just booked a Sea France Dover Calais return travelling early evening out in June and back in July for £72, (under 6 metres) with which I am quite happy.

[enodreven]

Hi,

 

In support of the C&CC club you must remember that they have to also make a profit so they can improve services for all of their members, they are not set up as a loss making organisation.

 

Regarding who or which companies they are prepared to advertise, that is surely up to them and each one i would suspect is taken on a commercial decision.

 

You may find that one company offers them a extra-special discount deal if they don't advertise there competitors service and that if it happens could be beneficial to all of the club members as it could result in more money to spend on Club services ??

 

You don't say how they compared for the actual ferry trip rather than using the ferry companies, as I thought they had a price match scheme ?

 

Having said all of the above, I totally agree that you can normally go direct to these ferry operators and beat or match most of the clubs prices.

 

 

[Brambles]

"You don't say how they compared for the actual ferry trip rather than using the ferry companies, as I thought they had a price match scheme ? "

 

I did. over £100 for CCC

£90 direct with ferry

£70 using CSMA discount code.

 

I would suggest this makes it look like the CCC is making over 30% per booking. I also got further commssion of a couple of pounds using my referral shop, and I dare say the CSMA also get a referral commssion.

 

Jon.

[Bill Ord]

It may not suit everybody but this year I've bought a "Carnet" with Seafrance. It consists of 6 crossings and works out at £64 for each return, the tickets are valid for one year. It's advertised on their home page. There are very few restrictions on travel times and you can give a ticket to a friend or family so it will be possible for like minded folk who do not need 3 returns to share and still have the benefit of the reduced price. So far its worked well for me and I've really appreciated the ability to just turn up and go as after the first booking on the phone all you have is reference numbers for the remaining crossings.

 

Bill Ord

[leisurepower]

Hi just checked C&CC Web site It states

Quote

Carefree will garantee to match or beat any Quotation you are offered elsewhere un quote.

So whats the problem? shop around a go for It 8-)

[geoff]

If a company can offer to price match "if you can find a lower price"why cannot it offer its lowest price to start with ?

 

Basically its saying that it will charge a higher price if it can get away with it , BUT, if anyone queries the price they will lower that price.

 

As a business man for over 45 years I find it unethical to charge 2 different prices for the same product by taking advantage of the ignorance of its customers. Its even more unethical when a club that is supposed to protect its members interests operates such a practice !

 

As for clubs taking a commision, they should not need to - after all, its members pay a subscription in the belief that the clubwill be able to negotiate lower prices for the members.

 

A company which is prepared to rip me off UNLESS I KNOW BETTER doesn't deserve my business in the first place.

 

 

[RupertGS]

I'm not sure what kind of businessman you are but your ignorance and stupidity here is absolutely staggering. If you'd take a few minutes to read the accounts of the CC for instance you would learn that if it tried to run purely on members' subscriptions it would be bankrupt in a few weeks!

It is the income from commissions, both ferry and insurance, that pays the wages of its members and funds the incredible network of sites, some of which operate at a loss owing to the very seasonal nature of the business.

As for a company charging two different prices and the accusation that it is immoral and that it should always charge the lower one - are you completely bonkers, or just not very bright? A company charges what it thinks is a suitable price for its products and of course it will try to get as much as it can. That's the nature of free enterprise.

It's amazing when people like you sell their house for instance, their selfless ideals go out of the window and they try to obtain the highest possible price. If you then find that someone down the road is offering an identical property for the same price you may then decide to drop yours to match it - in doing this have you been unethical in initially charging a higher price? Of course you haven't! You responded to market conditions and that's what the clubs and the ferry companies do.

I repeat, there are some silly people on this site who post some of the most stupid rubbish that I've ever read but your post absolutely takes the biscuit. How you've managed to run a business for 45 years baffles me. What is it, a whelk stall?

[geoff]

Sorry to dissapoint you Rupert, we dont have whelk stalls in West Yorkshire. I understand that those enterprises are located in the south of England where they cater for for southern Jessies with high faluting names !!!!!

 

If you have a point a make, make it and you might even change my opinion. Try being personal and throwing insults around and all you do is show your own ignorance and stupidity.

 

Your probably think that hurling insults around reinforces your arguament, it doesnt ! It merely deflects the arguament and moves it onto another level far removed from the original topic.

 

Any future replies from you will now be treated with the contempt which you have so richly earned.

[Brambles]

This is strange,

Have now gone back and checked prices with CCC again for crossing I want and come in about a £1 more than I paid. Thats over £30 cheaper than the quotes I got the other day. However I also noticed they do not (edit) list all the crossings. If I go direct to Ferry booking site and put in the code CCC, I am assumming this might be promotional code for the club, I get the same price as I paid through the CSMA.

So looks now like the CCClub is competative.

[geoff]

Right hand v left hand ?

[Brambles]

Geoff,

Norfolk line was way more expensive for day time crossings for the dates I am going, but worked out cheaper on alternatve dates which did not suit me.

So in concluson I think every booking has to be compared in its own set of circumstances...time, date, height. length, number of passengers etc.

 

What does interest me is the number of folk travelling at unsociable hours as it saves them a lot of money. I have yet in 5 years to find night time, late evening or early morning crossings cheaper than day time ones by enough to make it worth while. e.g savings of about £10.

 

 

[Brambles]

geoff,

How many times are you going to edit your post. LOL

What was the price from CCC?

How did it compare to Norfolk Line?

and now Left hand V Right Hand.

:)

[leisurepower]

Hi geoff

I dont wish to get into the realms of trading insults, but It is a fact that price

matching is a common practice.If a person cant do a bit of research perhaps they are one of the lucky few who do not need to worry about the price. But like It or loath It price matching is part of every day life from buying a car or a chair or any other multitude of goods and we just have to learn to play the game because It aint going away. B-)

[geoff]

sorry brambles, I asked the question then realised you had already covered the subject earlier, tried to correct, cocked it up again !!!

 

As for night time sailings, I enjoy travelling at night, especially on quiet roads. The £20 saving is just a bonus. Its not true that Yorkshiremen are tight !

 

I take the point that price matching is a way of life but the whole point of opening the thread was to persuade CCC to offer members the same opportunities that were available to CC members, especially as Norfolkline are willing to trade with CCC

[Guest Tracker]

For what it's worth, I'm with Geoff on this.

 

I agree that price matching is a cynical way of doing business, but it is a fact of life and I will use it to my own advantage as and when it suits.

 

However my first choice will always be to do business with the company that offers the best deal without faffing about returning calls to another provider just to get the same deal that I've just been offered, so most suppliers only get one chance unless I really prefer to deal with them.

 

Works well on cars though to get the best deal out of your local dealer!

 

It is such a shame that Rupert is still unable to be civil when he disagrees as his postings lose much of their credibility due to his unpleasant attitude.

[Brambles]

My belief is offerring price matching is very powerful marketing tool for feedback. Not many people generallytale advantage and those that do are in fact informing you as a business who your com,eettors are and they are cheaper. It is a mch cheaper way of doing market research that actually having an employee sitting there doing it for you.

It also makes yoru customers think you are offerring the best prices or at least very competative ones.

 

 

Coming back to the original post about Norfolk line, I can onlyt think possibilities as to why they do not offer. Maybe the Club makes more commission from Seafrance etc and calculate they will lose revenue by offering Norfolk crossings. Maybe they find Norfolk are not as competative as others so members would always be offered a better price on Seafrance.

maybe the club (Carefree or whatever the travel dept is called) would have to have new front end software written or purchase it and it is expensive and work out it is not viable.

Maybe they have an agreement to be sole agents for Seafrance.

Maybe the terms of contract between Norfolkline and the club has some unacceptable terms.

 

Is anyone prepared to ask the club why they do not offer Norfolkline crossings.

Also, why can Norfolk line not offer reduced fairs to CCC members anyway?

[Mel B]

Maybe CCC don't like Dunkerque (too down market for them?) (lol)

 

Similar to Richard, I rarely go back to a 'price match' company, if their deal isn't the best, I won't waste the cost/time of a phone call back to them. The only exception was when I was getting insurance for the camper and car recently, once I'd had the renewal letters I rang around and then went back to the original insurers to see if they could match or better the prices, neither wanted to know so I went elsewhere, probably wouldn't bother giving them the change to match in the future, not worth the time.

 

I do think, though, that the CCC should be giving it's members the best deals, otherwise how can it claim to be working for the interests of it's members if they have to pay more for something they can get elsewhere without having to fork out to join the club in the first place. 8-)

[geoff]

Its nice to know that I am not the only one who holds strong views on certain subjects. Thanks for your support.

 

I have already asked CCC for an explanation of their policy re Norfolkline and received the following unsatisfactory response : -

 

"Thank you for your email. Unfortunately Norfolk Line do not longer work

with us as they offer their own competitive rates to the public. We

continue to offer the best prices available for P & O Ferries and

SeaFrance."

 

I have since sent them a copy of this thread and have been informed that a reply will be soon forthcoming from their marketing department.

 

I hope they will respond to the specific questions I put to them and not try to fob me off with a stock reply. It would be helpful if those who agree with my comments could also write to them.

[Brambles]

I have looked at the accounts for the Caravan Club for 2004 to 2005 (all I can find at the moment).

It is interesting in so much as the belief the club would be bankcrupt in weeks is not apparent from the accounts in repsect of running the sites.

 

Based on Site fees, supscriptions, staff costs and general costs of running the sites there is a net profit.

It is not true to say the extra services are subsidising the runing of the actual sites as far as I can tell.

In 2004/05, the travel service lost 865 thousand pounds so in actual fact the profits from club sites, insurance offerenings, and other services subsidised the travel service.

Thats a bit of an unexpected result is it not???!!!! Especially after the rather strong comments from one poster.

 

 

Jon.

 

[kioki]

I do find it disheartening that geoff seems to be on a one man mission to be very critical of a service which he infact beneifted from!

Unless i understand you wrong you were so upset that CCC offered a price match to you, you turned it down and went to the caravanclub?. no you didnt, you took the price match, and the discount, but then are criticising the club for giving you a deal! that seems slightly hypercritical, if you were that offended, why did you not just take the original price and crossing with Norflolkline?

 

From what i can see, your ONLY arguement is that the CCC do not offer norfolkline. A fair question i guess. But perhaps there are reasons for this..Looking in Carefrees brochure they offer over a dozen different suppliers and the discounts go up from 5% for members, this includes Seafrance, and norfolkline.

 

I think it is a fair assumption to think that the Caravan club and CCC do get paid a commision for selling the discounted sailings, if they didnt how could they sustain an operation, as another posters says on here, the subsrciption fees dont come anywhere near to keeping the clubs afloat. Both clubs i imagine have to have ways of making money to reinvest back into the club. So the members get a deal, and the club makes a commision to then invest back into the clubs operations. So commison is not a dirty word, infact it is probably what pays some of the wages. However bear in mind commison of perhaps 5% of your cheapo norfolkline fare is only £5, hardly enough to pay the postage and wages of the person servicing your enquiry perhaps!!

I dont think things are as simple and as clear cut as perhaps geoff puts it. I am sure there must be a good reason why the CCC dont offer Norfolkline, even if Norfolkline are willing to work with them.

 

As for your claim that we as members pay inflated seafrance prices if we book with the CCC. i have just checked both websites and the CCC came out 5% cheaper on every corssing as they claim they are. So perhaps before putting incorrect claims of inflated prices, and giving our club a bad name, just check what you are claiming first.

I think sometimes we forget that our comments on public forums can be seen all over the world, and when we start placing nonfactual incorrect posts we should consider whether our comments are responsible or not.