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More proof that Germany runs the EU.........
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userBrian Kirby
Posted: 12 February 2019 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: More proof that Germany runs the EU.........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-02-11 9:28 PM
Violet1956 - 2019-02-11 8:26 PM
But if you look where the majority of these migrants are coming from in paragraph 1 of Brian's link most are not "dross" as you put it Dave. Most come from some of the most dangerous places in the world.

Incorrect ...........The majority are economic migrants ..........
Its the fact that the EU/Germany have been unable to sort the deserving from the chance'rs that has caused the problems .........

Dave, how refugees are dealt with is laid down by the UNHCR. The UN is the post WW2 descendent of the post WW1 League of Nations, of which the UK was a founder member. So if you don't like the internationally agreed rules, you know who is primarily to blame - and it isn't Germany.

That you are able to determine who are the genuine refugees from your position in the UK, and so readily separate them from the economic migrants, who may well have genuine cases as displaced persons, even if not claiming asylum, is most impressive.

Since you can so clearly do this better than the people on the ground, have you considered a further career as a migrant assessor? I really can't think of anyone better equipped.
userBulletguy
Posted: 12 February 2019 6:06 PM
Subject: RE: More proof that Germany runs the EU.........
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-02-12 5:51 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-11 9:28 PM
Violet1956 - 2019-02-11 8:26 PM
But if you look where the majority of these migrants are coming from in paragraph 1 of Brian's link most are not "dross" as you put it Dave. Most come from some of the most dangerous places in the world.

Incorrect ...........The majority are economic migrants ..........
Its the fact that the EU/Germany have been unable to sort the deserving from the chance'rs that has caused the problems .........

Dave, how refugees are dealt with is laid down by the UNHCR. The UN is the post WW2 descendent of the post WW1 League of Nations, of which the UK was a founder member. So if you don't like the internationally agreed rules, you know who is primarily to blame - and it isn't Germany.

That you are able to determine who are the genuine refugees from your position in the UK, and so readily separate them from the economic migrants, who may well have genuine cases as displaced persons, even if not claiming asylum, is most impressive.

Since you can so clearly do this better than the people on the ground, have you considered a further career as a migrant assessor? I really can't think of anyone better equipped.

Perish the thought! His method of "selection" would class anyone with a sun tan as "a migrant".
userpelmetman
Posted: 13 February 2019 8:40 AM
Subject: RE: More proof that Germany runs the EU.........
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-02-12 5:51 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-11 9:28 PM
Violet1956 - 2019-02-11 8:26 PM
But if you look where the majority of these migrants are coming from in paragraph 1 of Brian's link most are not "dross" as you put it Dave. Most come from some of the most dangerous places in the world.

Incorrect ...........The majority are economic migrants ..........
Its the fact that the EU/Germany have been unable to sort the deserving from the chance'rs that has caused the problems .........

Dave, how refugees are dealt with is laid down by the UNHCR. The UN is the post WW2 descendent of the post WW1 League of Nations, of which the UK was a founder member. So if you don't like the internationally agreed rules, you know who is primarily to blame - and it isn't Germany.

That you are able to determine who are the genuine refugees from your position in the UK, and so readily separate them from the economic migrants, who may well have genuine cases as displaced persons, even if not claiming asylum, is most impressive.

Since you can so clearly do this better than the people on the ground, have you considered a further career as a migrant assessor? I really can't think of anyone better equipped.


What's any of that got to do with Germany causing the migrant problem......and Germany using its control of the EU to solve the problem Merkel caused? ............

As for my ability to spot a economic migrant from a refugee ............

I suspect I'm much better at it than the Home Office......... as I can tell the difference between a toddler and a 30 year old ..............

userViolet1956
Posted: 13 February 2019 9:33 AM
Subject: RE: More proof that Germany runs the EU.........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-02-13 8:40 AM

Brian Kirby - 2019-02-12 5:51 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-11 9:28 PM
Violet1956 - 2019-02-11 8:26 PM
But if you look where the majority of these migrants are coming from in paragraph 1 of Brian's link most are not "dross" as you put it Dave. Most come from some of the most dangerous places in the world.

Incorrect ...........The majority are economic migrants ..........
Its the fact that the EU/Germany have been unable to sort the deserving from the chance'rs that has caused the problems .........

Dave, how refugees are dealt with is laid down by the UNHCR. The UN is the post WW2 descendent of the post WW1 League of Nations, of which the UK was a founder member. So if you don't like the internationally agreed rules, you know who is primarily to blame - and it isn't Germany.

That you are able to determine who are the genuine refugees from your position in the UK, and so readily separate them from the economic migrants, who may well have genuine cases as displaced persons, even if not claiming asylum, is most impressive.

Since you can so clearly do this better than the people on the ground, have you considered a further career as a migrant assessor? I really can't think of anyone better equipped.


What's any of that got to do with Germany causing the migrant problem......and Germany using its control of the EU to solve the problem Merkel caused? ............

As for my ability to spot a economic migrant from a refugee ............

I suspect I'm much better at it than the Home Office......... as I can tell the difference between a toddler and a 30 year old ..............



Ah but remember a while back I recall I posted links about age assessment and its complexity Dave. Even the experts at it can usually only provide an estimate of within +/– 2years when it comes to some adolescents and examination by physical characteristic alone can be five years out either side of a person’s true age around puberty. There is still no clinical research of sufficient depth and accuracy that covers all races as regards physical characteristics. Even amongst white British people there are boys under 18 that look in their late 20s and men in their late 20s that look like boys. A simple visual assessment is not sufficient. My son aged 29 still gets asked for ID on occasion. If you google “age-assessment in asylum cases” you will find lots of materials on how they are performed and in what circumstances. This BBC article below gives a reasonable overview with the caveat that it contains quotes from the twit David Davies MP for Monmouth who failed to ensure he was sufficiently informed before he made his comments on twitter.

And another thing - even if someone is assessed as being older than they said they are they might still qualify for refugee status, although of course if it turns out that their whole story is not credible they won't.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37687916

Veronica
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 13 February 2019 8:14 PM
Subject: RE: More proof that Germany runs the EU.........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-02-13 8:40 AM...……………….What's any of that got to do with Germany causing the migrant problem......and Germany using its control of the EU to solve the problem Merkel caused? ............

It has nothing to do with Germany "causing" the migrant crisis because, as I explained earlier via that BBC link that you claimed to have read, the migrants were not fleeing Germany, but a number of countries in the middle east and Africa. The "causes" lie there.

So first, the migrants arrived, from Turkey and north Africa. Then, the crisis in Europe began.

It began, mainly, in Greece and Italy. Those countries allowed the migrants to pass through, rather than processing them on arrival (as I believe they should have), apparently on the basis that few, if any, of the migrants wanted to claim refugee status in Greece or Italy, most preferring Germany or Sweden. Can't blame them for that.

That fact alone lays your claim that Germany "used its control" of the EU to force the migrant crisis. Had it being doing that, it would have forced Greece and Italy to deal with them in situ, rather than watching them flooding through other countries en-route to Germany. The simple truth is that the EU did not have in place any systems for dealing with mass refugee migrations, presumably because no-one foresaw the possibility. So, they were caught out by the numbers, and in disarray.

All signatories to the UN convention undertake to deal with migrants claiming to be refugees. However, it is much heaper to wave them through to another country, especially if that other country is relatively prosperous, and you own relatively poor.

There are numerous faults in the way the crisis has been handled across Europe by all involved, but seeking to heap the entire blame on Germany simply ignores the facts. The intention is humanitarian - but most want it to be someone else's humanitarian rather then their own. You, of all people, must recognise that instinct!
userpelmetman
Posted: 13 February 2019 9:16 PM
Subject: RE: More proof that Germany runs the EU.........
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-02-13 8:14 PM

There are numerous faults in the way the crisis has been handled across Europe by all involved, but seeking to heap the entire blame on Germany simply ignores the facts. The intention is humanitarian - but most want it to be someone else's humanitarian rather then their own. You, of all people, must recognise that instinct!


Halo polishing is not without consequence ...........

Unfortunately the halo polishers prefer someone else to sort out the mess their good intentions create ..........

userpelmetman
Posted: 13 February 2019 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: More proof that Germany runs the EU.........
 


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Violet1956 - 2019-02-13 9:33 AM

pelmetman - 2019-02-13 8:40 AM

Brian Kirby - 2019-02-12 5:51 PM

pelmetman - 2019-02-11 9:28 PM
Violet1956 - 2019-02-11 8:26 PM
But if you look where the majority of these migrants are coming from in paragraph 1 of Brian's link most are not "dross" as you put it Dave. Most come from some of the most dangerous places in the world.

Incorrect ...........The majority are economic migrants ..........
Its the fact that the EU/Germany have been unable to sort the deserving from the chance'rs that has caused the problems .........

Dave, how refugees are dealt with is laid down by the UNHCR. The UN is the post WW2 descendent of the post WW1 League of Nations, of which the UK was a founder member. So if you don't like the internationally agreed rules, you know who is primarily to blame - and it isn't Germany.

That you are able to determine who are the genuine refugees from your position in the UK, and so readily separate them from the economic migrants, who may well have genuine cases as displaced persons, even if not claiming asylum, is most impressive.

Since you can so clearly do this better than the people on the ground, have you considered a further career as a migrant assessor? I really can't think of anyone better equipped.


What's any of that got to do with Germany causing the migrant problem......and Germany using its control of the EU to solve the problem Merkel caused? ............

As for my ability to spot a economic migrant from a refugee ............

I suspect I'm much better at it than the Home Office......... as I can tell the difference between a toddler and a 30 year old ..............



Ah but remember a while back I recall I posted links about age assessment and its complexity Dave. Even the experts at it can usually only provide an estimate of within +/– 2years when it comes to some adolescents and examination by physical characteristic alone can be five years out either side of a person’s true age around puberty. There is still no clinical research of sufficient depth and accuracy that covers all races as regards physical characteristics. Even amongst white British people there are boys under 18 that look in their late 20s and men in their late 20s that look like boys. A simple visual assessment is not sufficient. My son aged 29 still gets asked for ID on occasion. If you google “age-assessment in asylum cases” you will find lots of materials on how they are performed and in what circumstances. This BBC article below gives a reasonable overview with the caveat that it contains quotes from the twit David Davies MP for Monmouth who failed to ensure he was sufficiently informed before he made his comments on twitter.

And another thing - even if someone is assessed as being older than they said they are they might still qualify for refugee status, although of course if it turns out that their whole story is not credible they won't.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37687916

Veronica


..........and when they have been proved to have lied are they deported? ............

Seeing as only 12 of the 300 Iranians who have crossed the channel have been sent back to France.......I'd say unlikely ...........

userViolet1956
Posted: 13 February 2019 9:45 PM
Subject: RE: More proof that Germany runs the EU.........
 


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I have done enough research for you Dave. If you want to find out how many failed asylum seekers are sent back from whence they came then I suggest you look it up yer sen. I suspect it will not be enough to dissuade others from taking their chances but don’t underestimate the enormity of the task and the attendant expense of returning them.
As for halo polishing, I guess you didn’t catch up on the programme I mentioned. I think Angela Merkel has been much maligned by people who would have made the same decision if they were in her place, unless they consider other human beings at risk of exhaustion, malnutrition and suffering from despair merely as “dross”.
userBulletguy
Posted: 13 February 2019 9:57 PM
Subject: RE: More proof that Germany runs the EU.........
 


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Violet1956 - 2019-02-13 9:45 PM

I have done enough research for you Dave. If you want to find out how many failed asylum seekers are sent back from whence they came then I suggest you look it up yer sen. I suspect it will not be enough to dissuade others from taking their chances but don’t underestimate the enormity of the task and the attendant expense of returning them.
As for halo polishing, I guess you didn’t catch up on the programme I mentioned. I think Angela Merkel has been much maligned by people who would have made the same decision if they were in her place, unless they consider other human beings at risk of exhaustion, malnutrition and suffering from despair merely as “dross”.

He won't read or view anything unless it has a far right xenophobic and/or racist agenda.
userpelmetman
Posted: 14 February 2019 8:45 AM
Subject: RE: More proof that Germany runs the EU.........
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-02-13 9:57 PM

Violet1956 - 2019-02-13 9:45 PM

I have done enough research for you Dave. If you want to find out how many failed asylum seekers are sent back from whence they came then I suggest you look it up yer sen. I suspect it will not be enough to dissuade others from taking their chances but don’t underestimate the enormity of the task and the attendant expense of returning them.
As for halo polishing, I guess you didn’t catch up on the programme I mentioned. I think Angela Merkel has been much maligned by people who would have made the same decision if they were in her place, unless they consider other human beings at risk of exhaustion, malnutrition and suffering from despair merely as “dross”.

He won't read or view anything unless it has a far right xenophobic and/or racist agenda.


You'd best not read the Koran then ...........

userBulletguy
Posted: 14 February 2019 1:05 PM
Subject: RE: More proof that Germany runs the EU.........
 


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pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:45 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-02-13 9:57 PM

Violet1956 - 2019-02-13 9:45 PM

I have done enough research for you Dave. If you want to find out how many failed asylum seekers are sent back from whence they came then I suggest you look it up yer sen. I suspect it will not be enough to dissuade others from taking their chances but don’t underestimate the enormity of the task and the attendant expense of returning them.
As for halo polishing, I guess you didn’t catch up on the programme I mentioned. I think Angela Merkel has been much maligned by people who would have made the same decision if they were in her place, unless they consider other human beings at risk of exhaustion, malnutrition and suffering from despair merely as “dross”.

He won't read or view anything unless it has a far right xenophobic and/or racist agenda.


You'd best not read the Koran then ...........

Wtf has that got to do with any of the points Brian mentioned i notice you couldn't address?
userpelmetman
Posted: 14 February 2019 1:33 PM
Subject: RE: More proof that Germany runs the EU.........
 


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Violet1956 - 2019-02-13 9:45 PM

I have done enough research for you Dave. If you want to find out how many failed asylum seekers are sent back from whence they came then I suggest you look it up yer sen. I suspect it will not be enough to dissuade others from taking their chances but don’t underestimate the enormity of the task and the attendant expense of returning them.
As for halo polishing, I guess you didn’t catch up on the programme I mentioned. I think Angela Merkel has been much maligned by people who would have made the same decision if they were in her place, unless they consider other human beings at risk of exhaustion, malnutrition and suffering from despair merely as “dross”.


Sadly it wont be the Halo polishing Mrs Merkel who will having those migrants dumped in her neighborhood ...........

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