Guest pelmetman Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 malc d - 2019-02-10 5:57 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-10 3:15 PM malc d - 2019-02-10 10:28 AM I don't really care who runs anything - as long as they do a good job. ;-) Which is the point ;-) .........Germany are only doing a good job of running the EU for themselves *-) ....... If we asked nicely , do you think they would run the U.K. for us - as we currently have no-one here who can do it. But then again, I'm surprised that you think they are running the EU well " for themselves " when they opened their doors to a million immigrants. Didn' t seem to go down too well in Germany to me. :-| I never said they were perfect ;-) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-02-11 6:39 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-11 6:37 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-02-11 4:38 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-10 3:14 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-02-09 6:13 PM BTW, what is it with you and Germany? You seem to be gripped by a paranoia about the country. Is it the beer that upsets you? :-D Perhaps another example of how Germany runs the EU ;-) ........ The migrant crisis was started when Mrs Merkel invited refugees to Germany *-) ....... https://news.sky.com/story/germany-no-limit-to-refugees-well-take-in-10347281 She clearly didn't expect so many to arrive and cause so many problems in Germany so she demands other EU countries take them :-| ......... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11820738/Germany-expected-to-demand-Britain-take-greater-share-of-migrants.html When they refuse........She gets her stooges in Brussels to sue them 8-) .......... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42270239 Do you want anymore proof that Germany runs the EU????? >:-) ........... Have a look here, Dave, it gives some facts, and some perspective. http://tinyurl.com/y547qyrr The migrant crisis did not start with Germany. It's all there, it's all checkable. You can also see the number taken into Britain. Makes you wonder what all the Brexit migrant phobia was about, doesn't it? :-D So does that not prove that they all headed too Germany as per Merkel's invite???? ;-) .......... Dave, DTFL! Read the f'ing link. I did ;-) ........ 2. Where are migrants going? Although not all of those arriving in Europe choose to claim asylum, many do. Germany received the highest number of new asylum applications in 2015, with more than 476,000. But far more people have arrived in the country - German officials said more than a million had been counted in Germany's "EASY" system for counting and distributing people before they make asylum claims. Now Germany is prolly sifting out the dross to dump in other EU countries :-| ......... Or am I being cynical? :D .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 But if you look where the majority of these migrants are coming from in paragraph 1 of Brian's link most are not "dross" as you put it Dave. Most come from some of the most dangerous places in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-02-11 8:26 PM But if you look where the majority of these migrants are coming from in paragraph 1 of Brian's link most are not "dross" as you put it Dave. Most come from some of the most dangerous places in the world. Incorrect ;-) ...........The majority are economic migrants :-| .......... Its the fact that the EU/Germany have been unable to sort the deserving from the chance'rs that has caused the problems *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Some are genuine refugees, some are economic migrants, some genuinely believe that they qualify for refugee status when they do not, I wouldn't regard any of them as "dross". Moreover, are you denying that Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, some parts of Pakistan, Nigeria and Eritrea are not some of the most dangerous places in the world or have you just not bothered to read the article in Brian's link? I've just watched "Inside Europe Ten Years of Turmoil" on BBC 2 tonight. You should get it on iplayer if you missed it. It is all to easy to criticise Angela Merkel but when you learn of the context in which she made her decision you may better understand that she was trying to avoid a pressing humanitarian crisis. Yes it was a decision that could not stem the flow of migrants and encouraged more to take their chance in the long term but it was a decision that she felt forced to make for reasons which I now understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-11 9:28 PM Violet1956 - 2019-02-11 8:26 PM But if you look where the majority of these migrants are coming from in paragraph 1 of Brian's link most are not "dross" as you put it Dave. Most come from some of the most dangerous places in the world. Incorrect ;-) ...........The majority are economic migrants :-| .......... Its the fact that the EU/Germany have been unable to sort the deserving from the chance'rs that has caused the problems *-) ......... Dave, how refugees are dealt with is laid down by the UNHCR. The UN is the post WW2 descendent of the post WW1 League of Nations, of which the UK was a founder member. So if you don't like the internationally agreed rules, you know who is primarily to blame - and it isn't Germany. That you are able to determine who are the genuine refugees from your position in the UK, and so readily separate them from the economic migrants, who may well have genuine cases as displaced persons, even if not claiming asylum, is most impressive. Since you can so clearly do this better than the people on the ground, have you considered a further career as a migrant assessor? I really can't think of anyone better equipped. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-02-12 5:51 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-11 9:28 PM Violet1956 - 2019-02-11 8:26 PM But if you look where the majority of these migrants are coming from in paragraph 1 of Brian's link most are not "dross" as you put it Dave. Most come from some of the most dangerous places in the world. Incorrect ;-) ...........The majority are economic migrants :-| .......... Its the fact that the EU/Germany have been unable to sort the deserving from the chance'rs that has caused the problems *-) ......... Dave, how refugees are dealt with is laid down by the UNHCR. The UN is the post WW2 descendent of the post WW1 League of Nations, of which the UK was a founder member. So if you don't like the internationally agreed rules, you know who is primarily to blame - and it isn't Germany. That you are able to determine who are the genuine refugees from your position in the UK, and so readily separate them from the economic migrants, who may well have genuine cases as displaced persons, even if not claiming asylum, is most impressive. Since you can so clearly do this better than the people on the ground, have you considered a further career as a migrant assessor? I really can't think of anyone better equipped. :-D Perish the thought! His method of "selection" would class anyone with a sun tan as "a migrant". :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-02-12 5:51 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-11 9:28 PM Violet1956 - 2019-02-11 8:26 PM But if you look where the majority of these migrants are coming from in paragraph 1 of Brian's link most are not "dross" as you put it Dave. Most come from some of the most dangerous places in the world. Incorrect ;-) ...........The majority are economic migrants :-| .......... Its the fact that the EU/Germany have been unable to sort the deserving from the chance'rs that has caused the problems *-) ......... Dave, how refugees are dealt with is laid down by the UNHCR. The UN is the post WW2 descendent of the post WW1 League of Nations, of which the UK was a founder member. So if you don't like the internationally agreed rules, you know who is primarily to blame - and it isn't Germany. That you are able to determine who are the genuine refugees from your position in the UK, and so readily separate them from the economic migrants, who may well have genuine cases as displaced persons, even if not claiming asylum, is most impressive. Since you can so clearly do this better than the people on the ground, have you considered a further career as a migrant assessor? I really can't think of anyone better equipped. :-D What's any of that got to do with Germany causing the migrant problem......and Germany using its control of the EU to solve the problem Merkel caused? *-) ............ As for my ability to spot a economic migrant from a refugee ;-) ............ I suspect I'm much better at it than the Home Office......... as I can tell the difference between a toddler and a 30 year old 8-) .............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-13 8:40 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-02-12 5:51 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-11 9:28 PM Violet1956 - 2019-02-11 8:26 PM But if you look where the majority of these migrants are coming from in paragraph 1 of Brian's link most are not "dross" as you put it Dave. Most come from some of the most dangerous places in the world. Incorrect ;-) ...........The majority are economic migrants :-| .......... Its the fact that the EU/Germany have been unable to sort the deserving from the chance'rs that has caused the problems *-) ......... Dave, how refugees are dealt with is laid down by the UNHCR. The UN is the post WW2 descendent of the post WW1 League of Nations, of which the UK was a founder member. So if you don't like the internationally agreed rules, you know who is primarily to blame - and it isn't Germany. That you are able to determine who are the genuine refugees from your position in the UK, and so readily separate them from the economic migrants, who may well have genuine cases as displaced persons, even if not claiming asylum, is most impressive. Since you can so clearly do this better than the people on the ground, have you considered a further career as a migrant assessor? I really can't think of anyone better equipped. :-D What's any of that got to do with Germany causing the migrant problem......and Germany using its control of the EU to solve the problem Merkel caused? *-) ............ As for my ability to spot a economic migrant from a refugee ;-) ............ I suspect I'm much better at it than the Home Office......... as I can tell the difference between a toddler and a 30 year old 8-) .............. Ah but remember a while back I recall I posted links about age assessment and its complexity Dave. Even the experts at it can usually only provide an estimate of within +/– 2years when it comes to some adolescents and examination by physical characteristic alone can be five years out either side of a person’s true age around puberty. There is still no clinical research of sufficient depth and accuracy that covers all races as regards physical characteristics. Even amongst white British people there are boys under 18 that look in their late 20s and men in their late 20s that look like boys. A simple visual assessment is not sufficient. My son aged 29 still gets asked for ID on occasion. If you google “age-assessment in asylum cases” you will find lots of materials on how they are performed and in what circumstances. This BBC article below gives a reasonable overview with the caveat that it contains quotes from the twit David Davies MP for Monmouth who failed to ensure he was sufficiently informed before he made his comments on twitter. And another thing - even if someone is assessed as being older than they said they are they might still qualify for refugee status, although of course if it turns out that their whole story is not credible they won't. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37687916 Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-13 8:40 AM...……………….What's any of that got to do with Germany causing the migrant problem......and Germany using its control of the EU to solve the problem Merkel caused? *-) ............ It has nothing to do with Germany "causing" the migrant crisis because, as I explained earlier via that BBC link that you claimed to have read, the migrants were not fleeing Germany, but a number of countries in the middle east and Africa. The "causes" lie there. So first, the migrants arrived, from Turkey and north Africa. Then, the crisis in Europe began. It began, mainly, in Greece and Italy. Those countries allowed the migrants to pass through, rather than processing them on arrival (as I believe they should have), apparently on the basis that few, if any, of the migrants wanted to claim refugee status in Greece or Italy, most preferring Germany or Sweden. Can't blame them for that. That fact alone lays your claim that Germany "used its control" of the EU to force the migrant crisis. Had it being doing that, it would have forced Greece and Italy to deal with them in situ, rather than watching them flooding through other countries en-route to Germany. The simple truth is that the EU did not have in place any systems for dealing with mass refugee migrations, presumably because no-one foresaw the possibility. So, they were caught out by the numbers, and in disarray. All signatories to the UN convention undertake to deal with migrants claiming to be refugees. However, it is much heaper to wave them through to another country, especially if that other country is relatively prosperous, and you own relatively poor. There are numerous faults in the way the crisis has been handled across Europe by all involved, but seeking to heap the entire blame on Germany simply ignores the facts. The intention is humanitarian - but most want it to be someone else's humanitarian rather then their own. You, of all people, must recognise that instinct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-02-13 8:14 PM There are numerous faults in the way the crisis has been handled across Europe by all involved, but seeking to heap the entire blame on Germany simply ignores the facts. The intention is humanitarian - but most want it to be someone else's humanitarian rather then their own. You, of all people, must recognise that instinct! Halo polishing is not without consequence :-| ........... Unfortunately the halo polishers prefer someone else to sort out the mess their good intentions create *-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-02-13 9:33 AM pelmetman - 2019-02-13 8:40 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-02-12 5:51 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-11 9:28 PM Violet1956 - 2019-02-11 8:26 PM But if you look where the majority of these migrants are coming from in paragraph 1 of Brian's link most are not "dross" as you put it Dave. Most come from some of the most dangerous places in the world. Incorrect ;-) ...........The majority are economic migrants :-| .......... Its the fact that the EU/Germany have been unable to sort the deserving from the chance'rs that has caused the problems *-) ......... Dave, how refugees are dealt with is laid down by the UNHCR. The UN is the post WW2 descendent of the post WW1 League of Nations, of which the UK was a founder member. So if you don't like the internationally agreed rules, you know who is primarily to blame - and it isn't Germany. That you are able to determine who are the genuine refugees from your position in the UK, and so readily separate them from the economic migrants, who may well have genuine cases as displaced persons, even if not claiming asylum, is most impressive. Since you can so clearly do this better than the people on the ground, have you considered a further career as a migrant assessor? I really can't think of anyone better equipped. :-D What's any of that got to do with Germany causing the migrant problem......and Germany using its control of the EU to solve the problem Merkel caused? *-) ............ As for my ability to spot a economic migrant from a refugee ;-) ............ I suspect I'm much better at it than the Home Office......... as I can tell the difference between a toddler and a 30 year old 8-) .............. Ah but remember a while back I recall I posted links about age assessment and its complexity Dave. Even the experts at it can usually only provide an estimate of within +/– 2years when it comes to some adolescents and examination by physical characteristic alone can be five years out either side of a person’s true age around puberty. There is still no clinical research of sufficient depth and accuracy that covers all races as regards physical characteristics. Even amongst white British people there are boys under 18 that look in their late 20s and men in their late 20s that look like boys. A simple visual assessment is not sufficient. My son aged 29 still gets asked for ID on occasion. If you google “age-assessment in asylum cases” you will find lots of materials on how they are performed and in what circumstances. This BBC article below gives a reasonable overview with the caveat that it contains quotes from the twit David Davies MP for Monmouth who failed to ensure he was sufficiently informed before he made his comments on twitter. And another thing - even if someone is assessed as being older than they said they are they might still qualify for refugee status, although of course if it turns out that their whole story is not credible they won't. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37687916 Veronica ..........and when they have been proved to have lied are they deported? *-) ............ Seeing as only 12 of the 300 Iranians who have crossed the channel have been sent back to France.......I'd say unlikely :-| ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I have done enough research for you Dave. If you want to find out how many failed asylum seekers are sent back from whence they came then I suggest you look it up yer sen. I suspect it will not be enough to dissuade others from taking their chances but don’t underestimate the enormity of the task and the attendant expense of returning them. As for halo polishing, I guess you didn’t catch up on the programme I mentioned. I think Angela Merkel has been much maligned by people who would have made the same decision if they were in her place, unless they consider other human beings at risk of exhaustion, malnutrition and suffering from despair merely as “dross”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-02-13 9:45 PM I have done enough research for you Dave. If you want to find out how many failed asylum seekers are sent back from whence they came then I suggest you look it up yer sen. I suspect it will not be enough to dissuade others from taking their chances but don’t underestimate the enormity of the task and the attendant expense of returning them. As for halo polishing, I guess you didn’t catch up on the programme I mentioned. I think Angela Merkel has been much maligned by people who would have made the same decision if they were in her place, unless they consider other human beings at risk of exhaustion, malnutrition and suffering from despair merely as “dross”. He won't read or view anything unless it has a far right xenophobic and/or racist agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-13 9:57 PM Violet1956 - 2019-02-13 9:45 PM I have done enough research for you Dave. If you want to find out how many failed asylum seekers are sent back from whence they came then I suggest you look it up yer sen. I suspect it will not be enough to dissuade others from taking their chances but don’t underestimate the enormity of the task and the attendant expense of returning them. As for halo polishing, I guess you didn’t catch up on the programme I mentioned. I think Angela Merkel has been much maligned by people who would have made the same decision if they were in her place, unless they consider other human beings at risk of exhaustion, malnutrition and suffering from despair merely as “dross”. He won't read or view anything unless it has a far right xenophobic and/or racist agenda. You'd best not read the Koran then (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:45 AM Bulletguy - 2019-02-13 9:57 PM Violet1956 - 2019-02-13 9:45 PM I have done enough research for you Dave. If you want to find out how many failed asylum seekers are sent back from whence they came then I suggest you look it up yer sen. I suspect it will not be enough to dissuade others from taking their chances but don’t underestimate the enormity of the task and the attendant expense of returning them. As for halo polishing, I guess you didn’t catch up on the programme I mentioned. I think Angela Merkel has been much maligned by people who would have made the same decision if they were in her place, unless they consider other human beings at risk of exhaustion, malnutrition and suffering from despair merely as “dross”. He won't read or view anything unless it has a far right xenophobic and/or racist agenda. You'd best not read the Koran then (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... Wtf has that got to do with any of the points Brian mentioned i notice you couldn't address? :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-02-13 9:45 PM I have done enough research for you Dave. If you want to find out how many failed asylum seekers are sent back from whence they came then I suggest you look it up yer sen. I suspect it will not be enough to dissuade others from taking their chances but don’t underestimate the enormity of the task and the attendant expense of returning them. As for halo polishing, I guess you didn’t catch up on the programme I mentioned. I think Angela Merkel has been much maligned by people who would have made the same decision if they were in her place, unless they consider other human beings at risk of exhaustion, malnutrition and suffering from despair merely as “dross”. Sadly it wont be the Halo polishing Mrs Merkel who will having those migrants dumped in her neighborhood *-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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