Violet1956 Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 The beginning of the Apocalypse post Brexit perhaps for the employees of Nissan in Sunderland. Who next -those employed by Hitachi and Fujitsu and all their ancilliary B2B customers in the UK? :-( Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 I am not at all surprised by the negotiating stance being taken by Nissan and other car makers in te wake of Brexit, which the North East voted for not against, but I am surprised by Veronica's drawing of a conclusion that is far from decided at this stage. Wait and see Veronica, wait and see, the people that own and run theses car plants are astute business people and more's the pity they are not on the government's negotiating team. We just have to hope that our negotiators are as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 I suspect they're looking for a bung from the UK government to replace their EU subsidies and any possible tariffs ;-) ....... I expect we could easily cover the costs of any tariffs they're charged by the EU, from the tariffs we'd receive from all those Audi, BMW, VW, Skoda, Transit, Citroen, Peugeot, Fiat etc etc buyers.....plus it should mean the cost of vehicles produced in the UK will cheaper than those from the EU :D ....... Looks like another BREXIT win win to me B-) ........ "Almost one in three cars, or 810,000 cars sold in Britain, come from Germany, making the British island the biggest export destination for German car producers. It is around a fifth of the total number the industry exports worldwide, according to the German car association, VDA. Britain reached a new market high of 2.6 million car registrations in 2015 – 86 percent of which were not produced in the UK." https://global.handelsblatt.com/edition/456/ressort/companies-markets/article/car-industry-would-bounce-back-experts-say ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 30, 2016 Author Share Posted September 30, 2016 Tracker - 2016-09-30 2:19 PM I am not at all surprised by the negotiating stance being taken by Nissan and other car makers in te wake of Brexit, which the North East voted for not against, but I am surprised by Veronica's drawing of a conclusion that is far from decided at this stage. Wait and see Veronica, wait and see, the people that own and run theses car plants are astute business people and more's the pity they are not on the government's negotiating team. We just have to hope that our negotiators are as good. You're right Rich I can draw no conclusion and there is a lot of posturing going on. I think Theresa must get on with it asap or uncertaintly may cause some of our major industries to jump neverthless. What is clear may be that they will hold back on any further investment in the UK until this is sorted and I wouldn't like to be one of the people who fears losing their highly skilled job having to wait for an outcome that is so up in the air with no end date in sight. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 30, 2016 Author Share Posted September 30, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-09-30 3:28 PM I suspect they're looking for a bung from the UK government to replace their EU subsidies and any possible tariffs ;-) ....... I expect we could easily cover the costs of any tariffs they're charged by the EU, from the tariffs we'd receive from all those Audi, BMW, VW, Skoda, Transit, Citroen, Peugeot, Fiat etc etc buyers.....plus it should mean the cost of vehicles produced in the UK will cheaper than those from the EU :D ....... Looks like another BREXIT win win to me B-) ........ "Almost one in three cars, or 810,000 cars sold in Britain, come from Germany, making the British island the biggest export destination for German car producers. It is around a fifth of the total number the industry exports worldwide, according to the German car association, VDA. Britain reached a new market high of 2.6 million car registrations in 2015 – 86 percent of which were not produced in the UK." https://global.handelsblatt.com/edition/456/ressort/companies-markets/article/car-industry-would-bounce-back-experts-say ;-) Tell Theresa to get on with it then Dave then we can all rest easy. Trouble is I think she is known as one of those people who rose up through the ranks because she carefully avoided making decisions. The type of boss many of us will have experienced in our working lives no doubt. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 I suspect that there is a lot of behind the scenes talks and pre-talk talks going on and I fully support Mrs May in her negotiating stance. I consider it would be very wrong to let those with whom we will be negotiating know what we are up to - and primarily I mean the EU beaurocracy machine as opposed to the pragmatitism of some of it's member states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Renault-Nissan BV, have always been threatening withdrawal from UK in attempts to get the best handouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Violet1956 - 2016-09-30 3:48 PM I wouldn't like to be one of the people who fears losing their highly skilled job having to wait for an outcome that is so up in the air with no end date in sight. :-( I doubt the highly skilled have anything to worry about, given the dearth of such talents in the UK jobs market ;-) ......... Although I do wonder about the abilities of the UK's scaremongering brigade 8-) ........I fear they may need retraining :D ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 All the car producers in Britain want clarity on what's happening, even Jaguar. Honda also want answers but so do many other types of industries. If Nissan pull out then buy Honda. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37511219 Does Nissan think they won't have to pay tarrif's to us on there product if they relocate? That's assuming there will be no free trade agreement. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 I'm with Tracker on this, I just wish that people would take less notice of the comments and statements of people with vested interests, NO ONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD HAS THE SLIGHTEST KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THIS WILL TURN OUT. Everything they say is more or less informed guesswork or opinion. If we assume that our exit from the EU as it is will be a reality, we will really benefit by not going around telling those that we have to negotiate with that it will be a disaster for us, keep your cards tight to your chest and let them think that we have a really good hand. My personal belief is that we do have a very good hand to play. The people who are trying to frighten us will not in many cases even be in power when the decisions are made, and in the short term they have domestic and other agendas that they need to appease. Most of the free world is not in the EU, it still trades with the EU, it does not allow the free movement of people with EU, and by and large they seem to be doing alright. The EU derives so much benefit from it's trade and other association with us that you really can't imagine that they will refuse to negotiate with us, that the car workers in say Germany who will lose their jobs when their biggest export customer raises tariffs against them, will understand that it is worth it for the sake of the free movement of people within the union? It really is going to be alright, sure, some things will change, some for better, some for worse, but do you really think that nothing would have changed if there had been no referendum? The government's crack down on rents paid through Social Services means that property prices are unlikely to be sustained for a start. The Spiv's who operate the world financial markets would have continued to make sure that they just got richer. Politicians would have continued to make strange decisions about nuclear power station, high speed trains, northern hubs, and heaven only knows what, with little if any consideration of what that might mean to you and I. We call it progress. It is my wish that those charged with the negotiations with the EU should start by explaining that we wish to leave, but if the EU wishes to offer us terms and conditions, and the framework for a better form of European co-operation, we will listen, because we haven't fallen out with them, we simply do not want to be part of the existing arrangements, and we would love to be part of something better with them. The decision is made, let us all work together to get the deal we want. Let's back Britain. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pagey Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 pagey - 2016-09-30 7:25 PM well said Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted September 30, 2016 Author Share Posted September 30, 2016 Archiesgrandad - 2016-09-30 6:27 PM I'm with Tracker on this, I just wish that people would take less notice of the comments and statements of people with vested interests, NO ONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD HAS THE SLIGHTEST KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THIS WILL TURN OUT. Everything they say is more or less informed guesswork or opinion. If we assume that our exit from the EU as it is will be a reality, we will really benefit by not going around telling those that we have to negotiate with that it will be a disaster for us, keep your cards tight to your chest and let them think that we have a really good hand. My personal belief is that we do have a very good hand to play. The people who are trying to frighten us will not in many cases even be in power when the decisions are made, and in the short term they have domestic and other agendas that they need to appease. Most of the free world is not in the EU, it still trades with the EU, it does not allow the free movement of people with EU, and by and large they seem to be doing alright. The EU derives so much benefit from it's trade and other association with us that you really can't imagine that they will refuse to negotiate with us, that the car workers in say Germany who will lose their jobs when their biggest export customer raises tariffs against them, will understand that it is worth it for the sake of the free movement of people within the union? It really is going to be alright, sure, some things will change, some for better, some for worse, but do you really think that nothing would have changed if there had been no referendum? The government's crack down on rents paid through Social Services means that property prices are unlikely to be sustained for a start. The Spiv's who operate the world financial markets would have continued to make sure that they just got richer. Politicians would have continued to make strange decisions about nuclear power station, high speed trains, northern hubs, and heaven only knows what, with little if any consideration of what that might mean to you and I. We call it progress. It is my wish that those charged with the negotiations with the EU should start by explaining that we wish to leave, but if the EU wishes to offer us terms and conditions, and the framework for a better form of European co-operation, we will listen, because we haven't fallen out with them, we simply do not want to be part of the existing arrangements, and we would love to be part of something better with them. The decision is made, let us all work together to get the deal we want. Let's back Britain. AGD I've accepted that the decision is made. I just want the government to get on with it. It's is not anti-British to express alarm at the prospect of the loss of jobs in areas of the country that can least afford to lose them. I hope that our bargaining position is a strong as many on here believe. I don't believe the government is negotiating from a position that it's going to be a disaster for us. Voicing my fears that we may loose Nissan however naive or possibly uninformed is hardly going to have an effect on the outcome of the negotiations. Some people have added some facts and figures (thanks Dave P for the link) so that has allayed my fears somewhat. I see however that the General Manager of Europe for Honda, who have pledged to stay, has also asked for a speedy decision. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Violet1956 - 2016-09-30 8:31 PM Some people have added some facts and figures (thanks Dave P for the link) so that has allayed my fears somewhat. I see however that the General Manager of Europe for Honda, who have pledged to stay, has also asked for a speedy decision. Veronica Dunno why they want to rush us to the Brexit ;-) ......... Maybe its because we're in front of the avalanche :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 It isn't just Tariffs. Jaguar Land Rover reports EU customers turning their noses up at British made cars since the Brexit vote. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/30/european-customers-boycotting-british-cars-eu-brexit-vote-jaguar-land-rover But once people have made up their minds about Brexit it seems no amount of evidence will change it. I wonder how much longer it will be before people realise the Brexiteers haven't actually planned for Brexit and are leaving such minor details for someone else *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 John52 - 2016-09-30 10:39 PM It isn't just Tariffs. Jaguar Land Rover reports EU customers turning their noses up at British made cars since the Brexit vote. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/30/european-customers-boycotting-british-cars-eu-brexit-vote-jaguar-land-rover But once people have made up their minds about Brexit it seems no amount of evidence will change it. I wonder how much longer it will be before people realise the Brexiteers haven't actually planned for Brexit and are leaving such minor details for someone else *-) So UK buyers should turn up their noses to Audi, BMW's, Mercedes, Porsche, VW, Skoda, Fiat, Citroen, Peugeot ;-) ....... When it comes to tit for tat.....their tit needs us more than we need their tat >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-09-30 10:49 PM John52 - 2016-09-30 10:39 PM So UK buyers should turn up their noses to Audi, BMW's, Mercedes, Porsche, VW, Skoda, Fiat, Citroen, Peugeot ;-) ....... >:-) ........ If only they would Dave. Though I was just a kid I don't recall the "I'm backing Britain" campaign in the 60s was that successful. I wouldn't buy a MH based on where it was built. Right now my second one will definitely be German, French or Slovenian. Veronica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-09-30 10:49 PM So UK buyers should turn up their noses to Audi, BMW's, Mercedes, Porsche, VW, Skoda, Fiat, Citroen, Peugeot ;-) ....... When it comes to tit for tat.....their tit needs us more than we need their tat >:-) ........ UK buyers won't have so much choice if they try to avoid foreign. Which they won't - look how they are flocking to Lidl & Aldi - all foreign owned and inherited by one of the worlds richest men, most of the stuff imported with the date codes secret, shown to be ignoring H&S legislation and expecting staff to come in early for nothing in the Channel 4 programme. Then they shun British public owned companies like Tesco. Look how they derided Rover cars. Yet I had a Maestro for 18 years, and can see its still on the road now at 26 years old. But there seems to be a death wish in knocking everything British. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Violet1956 - 2016-10-01 12:23 AM I don't recall the "I'm backing Britain" campaign in the 60s was that successful. Veronica I think there was more of a community spirit then which followed on from the war, and much more trade unionism for example. The biggest change came in the eighties when people became much more selfish - bribed by selling public owned assets like council houses, railways or power stations cheap to them. Probably typified best by the miners strike in which the Nottinghamshire miners were persuaded to undermine the strike because they were told their own jobs were safe because their pits were profitable or they were bribed by up to £50k redundancy money at a time when the average house price was £25k. Divide and Rule :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 John52 - 2016-10-01 8:35 AM Violet1956 - 2016-10-01 12:23 AM I don't recall the "I'm backing Britain" campaign in the 60s was that successful. Veronica I think there was more of a community spirit then which followed on from the war, and much more trade unionism for example. The biggest change came in the eighties when people became much more selfish - bribed by selling public owned assets like council houses, railways or power stations cheap to them. Probably typified best by the miners strike in which the Nottinghamshire miners were persuaded to undermine the strike because they were told their own jobs were safe because their pits were profitable or they were bribed by up to £50k redundancy money at a time when the average house price was £25k. Divide and Rule :-S Touched a raw nerve with me John. My parents bought their council house in the 70s and did what everyone did first and changed the "municipal" front door. I was pleased for them at first but dismayed when there was no re-investment in the public housing stock. That oft seen photo of Maggie in patronising mode in a council house kitchen sickens me. So much of the public housing stock in London in prime locations has ended up in private landlord portfolios and now attract enormous rents. Biggest scam of the last century IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Violet1956 - 2016-10-01 8:59 AM That oft seen photo of Maggie in patronising mode in a council house kitchen sickens me. Shirley Porter got done for Gerrymandering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirley_Porter And yet Margaret Thatcher did the same thing and got off with it. I can only guess Thatcher knew too much to prosecute. Or as her close friend Sir Jimmy Savile OBE KCSG said 'If I go down I will take some of them down with me' :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Violet1956 - 2016-10-01 12:23 AM pelmetman - 2016-09-30 10:49 PM John52 - 2016-09-30 10:39 PM So UK buyers should turn up their noses to Audi, BMW's, Mercedes, Porsche, VW, Skoda, Fiat, Citroen, Peugeot ;-) ....... >:-) ........ If only they would Dave. Though I was just a kid I don't recall the "I'm backing Britain" campaign in the 60s was that successful. I wouldn't buy a MH based on where it was built. Right now my second one will definitely be German, French or Slovenian. Veronica You'll be doing your bit for the UK coffers by paying the tariffs then ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-10-01 10:30 AM Violet1956 - 2016-10-01 12:23 AM pelmetman - 2016-09-30 10:49 PM John52 - 2016-09-30 10:39 PM So UK buyers should turn up their noses to Audi, BMW's, Mercedes, Porsche, VW, Skoda, Fiat, Citroen, Peugeot ;-) ....... >:-) ........ If only they would Dave. Though I was just a kid I don't recall the "I'm backing Britain" campaign in the 60s was that successful. I wouldn't buy a MH based on where it was built. Right now my second one will definitely be German, French or Slovenian. Veronica You'll be doing your bit for the UK coffers by paying the tariffs then ;-) ......... Not any day soon according to Ken (and my bank balance) sadly. http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/09/ken-clarke-theresa-may-has-no-idea-what-do-about-brexit ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 John52 - 2016-10-01 8:25 AM Then they shun British public owned companies like Tesco. Look how they derided Rover cars Yet I had a Maestro for 18 years, and can see its still on the road now at 26 years old. But there seems to be a death wish in knocking everything British. Tesco are basically being beaten at their own game *-) ..........They no longer stack it high and sell it cheap, but prefer to buy private jets for boss..........so in my view only have themselves to blame :-| ........ ......and we are currently living in our 26 year old British built camper B-) ........I wonder how many of today's vans will still be on the road in 26 years time? >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Violet1956 - 2016-10-01 8:59 AM ....Touched a raw nerve with me John. My parents bought their council house in the 70s and did what everyone did first and changed the "municipal" front door. I was pleased for them at first but dismayed when there was no re-investment in the public housing stock. That oft seen photo of Maggie in patronising mode in a council house kitchen sickens me. So much of the public housing stock in London in prime locations has ended up in private landlord portfolios and now attract enormous rents. Biggest scam of the last century IMO. It wasn't your parents fault that there was no reinvestment surely? And was it ever promised that the proceeds would be used to replace housing stock - surely the objective was to reduce the levels of public housing? And the houses which ended up in the hands of private landlords were presumably sold (either for profit or for personal reasons) by the former council house tenants? How was it a "scam" (i.e. fraudulent deception) to give people an opportunity to be home owners? Where was the deception and how was it fraudulent? Or do you mean that in retrospect the scheme didn't fit with your ideas (because it did reduce public housing stock) and you would have done it differently and denied your parents their opportunity? My cousin was a very left wing socialist and he disapproved of the scheme at the time but he encouraged his mum, a council house tenant, to profit from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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