AliB Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 After leaving the vehicle (Ducato X250 2.3L 2008) at the storage park for 5 weeks it will not start. The dreaded Vehicle Protection System Failure warning light, the locked padlock, comes on and stays on. I have obtained the reset code from Fiat and they have given me a procedure to enter the code which seems to make no sense. The procedure states, "turn the ignition key to MAR. After 2 seconds the EDC warning light starts to blink" What is the EDC warning light? Is it the same as the locked padlock light? If so my light does not flash. Does anyone have the correct procedure to re enter the imobiliser code? I have also tried to check the gearbox earth strap but I am having difficulty locating it. Searching back through threads it seems it should be found on the right hand side looking into the engine compartment. Am I looking in the right place? As far as I can ascertain there is an earth connection, having used a jump lead from the gearbox to the chassis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I assume the engine battery is fully charged and it's not just playing silly buggers due to low voltage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 Hi Lenny, battery reading 12.5V. I have a smallish solar panel that keeps it topped up. I also tried it with jump leads. Battery then reading 12.7V. Also the spare key does not work . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 See if they can help you on here http://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/256726-edc-fault-2-3-ducato-57-wont-start.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Have you tried disconnecting the battery and reconnecting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Your symptoms are almost identical to ours in the thread below. As you mention the earth strap I guess that you are up to speed, but here's the link just in case: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/That-X2-50-engine-gearbox-earth-strap-again-/33081/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 I managed to locate the earth strap this afternoon. I was looking in the wrong place. Purchased a new one from Halfords (only place open this afternoon). Fitted but made no difference. The immobiliser light is still on. I had tried Brambles idea of a battery disconnect but that had no effect. I am hoping now that someone can advise the correct procedure to re entry the code for the immobiliser. The procedure I have starts with a flashing warning light which I do not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 I managed to locate the earth strap this afternoon. I was looking in the wrong place. Purchased a new one from Halfords (only place open this afternoon). Fitted but made no difference. The immobiliser light is still on. I had tried Brambles idea of a battery disconnect but that had no effect. I am hoping now that someone can advise the correct procedure to re entry the code for the immobiliser. The procedure I have starts with a flashing warning light which I do not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 Hi alibi, i have had this fault intermittently on my 2.8, advised to remove lower steering column plastic cover, you will see immobiliser square box size of a fag packet, and beside the ign switch a sensor and cable going to the box, you can remove the plug, spray with electrical contact cleaner and partially refit, sliding up and down a few times to clean up contacts before replacing completely, this has worked for me? good luck snail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 snail - 2014-03-23 7:13 PM Hi alibi, i have had this fault intermittently on my 2.8, advised to remove lower steering column plastic cover, you will see immobiliser square box size of a fag packet, and beside the ign switch a sensor and cable going to the box, you can remove the plug, spray with electrical contact cleaner and partially refit, sliding up and down a few times to clean up contacts before replacing completely, this has worked for me? good luck snail I'm afraid that this isn't relevant to the X2/50 where the immobiliser is integral to the ECU. To the OP: This is the 'emergency start procedure' that Google brings up for the Ducato but, as ever, there is some doubt as to which models and engines it applies to. This emergency procedure enables you to start the engine only if the engine doesn’t start because of an immobiliser problem. If the procedure is interrupted, you must do it again. That’s why it is important to read and understand properly the procedure before practising it. This procedure must be done for each starting. Procedure 1. Read the security code on the card 2. Switch off the ignition. Switch on the ignition 3. Press the accelerator pedal till the diagnostic light switch off (around 8 secs) 4. Release the accelerator pedal 5. Press the accelerator pedal as soon as the number of diagnostic light flashing equals the first number of the security code 6. Press the accelerator pedal till the diagnostic light switch off (around 4 secs) 7. Do stages 6 and 7 for each number of the security code 8. Once you have released the pedal accelerator for the last number if the light switch off or flash for 4 seconds, the procedure is a success and the engine can be started. If the diagnostic light stays on , the procedure has failed and must be done again after a delay of 10 minutes. Start the procedure stage 2. If the procedure succeeds and the engine starts, it means that the problem is an immobiliser one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 AliB - 2014-03-22 2:36 PM ...The procedure states, "turn the ignition key to MAR. After 2 seconds the EDC warning light starts to blink" What is the EDC warning light? Is it the same as the locked padlock light? If so my light does not flash. Does anyone have the correct procedure to re enter the imobiliser code?... Apparently "EDC" means "Electronic Diesel Control" in this case, and will be the 'padlock' light. "EDC" seems to be an automotive industry-standard acronym, as Mercedes uses it too. (This is the sort of problem that Nick Fisher (euroserv) would be well placed to advise on. I don't how much time Nick is able to give to this forum but, for anyone with a Fiat-related problem, it would be as well to make this plain in a thread's title. For example, "Fiat Ducato Starting Problem" is more likely to attract Nick's attention than "Engine Immobiliser Locked Out".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Good idea Derek. You mean like this? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Thanks Steve for the procedure. It is very similar to the procedure I obtained from the local Fiat dealer. There techie guys said there is not an official procedure to emergency start a 2008 X250. It should be done through the diagnostic port. However, they gave me the procedure to emergency start an Iveco which is the same as your listing. Confusing, to say the list. I tried again this morning with no success. About 2 seconds after turning on the ignition the immobiliser light comes on and stays on. I have pressed the accelerator pedal and held for a good long time but the light does not change from constant to flashing. Hence, it is not possible to enter the code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Does the engine actually turn over when you try to start it. It may also actually be your emergency inertia switch has trip. Not sure wjhere it is on teh X250 but shoudl be I imagine on the bulkead in engine bay somwhere. What you also need to do is check the battery voltage with the ignition turned on. Actually a simpe way to test this is if you know battery is good with ignition off, is to turn on cab light , then ignition and see if the light dims. When the glow plugs turn on it can be a massive drain on battery and cause the voltage to drop too much on an old battery. Also check the chassis connection for the engine management system module. Beginning too look like you need to get vehicle hooked up to diagnostics, but at moment your 12.5 volts on battery reading is a bit low considering you have a solar panel to keep it topped up so I would be checking the battery voltage next under load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Hello! We have had absolutely zero problems with X250 immobilisers. I have not seen an answer regarding whether the starter motor is turning when you try to start? If it is; you will probably need to get the vehicle towed to a Fiat dealer to resolve what is obviously an ECU programming problem. If the starter does not turn; you should check the big grey fuse on the battery positive terminal. If there has been a significant short this fuse known as 'CAL 5' may be blown or sufficiently weakened to be playing up. If this is ok there may well be a short in the cables under the nearside headlamp. This sort of thing takes time and patience. The big blue connector that resides under the fuse box is a hot bed of corrosion and would be my first port of call before unwinding the insulation on the loom and checking every cable. Good luck. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Thanks Nick. Yes the starter motor does turn the engine over. So it looks like I will be arrangibg to get the vehicle towed to a dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Ali, The most useful step that I took in determining the cause of my similar problem (see link above) was to connect up a OBD2 code reader and attempt to read any error codes. It was this that determined that it wasn't actually an immobiliser problem at all and that the ECU had no power: the reader was unable to connect to it at all. The body computer expects an 'OK' signal from the immobilser within the ECU and without this it will default to switching on the EDC light, so no communication with the ECU has the same effect as a genuine immobiliser fault. Can you get hold of a reader or do you a breakdown service that would come out with theirs? This would help identify any possible wiring fault and may help you decide where to get the van recovered to. A main dealer, if unable to get a clear diagnosis from their diagnostics, is likely to adopt the approach of starting to fit new parts until it works and this can be very expensive when dealing with ECUs, wiring looms etc. The cynic in me might think that they may be unlikely to tell you later that the £600 ECU they fitted wasn't actually the solution in the end and just present you with a fait-accompli. If it does look like a wiring fault then an auto-electrical specialist would likely be your best bet. They will have facilities to load test wiring and hopefully home in on the fault before the bill mounts up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Hi Steve, I agree with you about the thought of a main dealer merrily replacing parts untill it works. I have no experience of OBD2 readers. Would one of these do the job? I don't mind spending that sort of money to get a bit of advance knowledge before committing the vehicle to a dealer. http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/obd2-scanner I do have breakdown cover with Caravan Guard but I'm not sure whether they will attempt a fix or simply transport you to a dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Does the immobiliser have a time lock on it? I had an issue with the immobiliser on our Discovery (turned out to be the battery on the way out - new battery cured the issue) but what was happening was every time I tried the ignition the time extended logarithmically. I am not sure of the exact timing but if the immobiliser is triggered it would work for 1 min - but try it again within the minute and it would act for 2min and if tried again 4 min, then 8, 16, 32 etc - my understanding was that when it reached 64 min - it locked on and needed to be re-programmed. As some have said - seems like time for an auto electrician call out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 'tis not your immobilser if the engine turns over as far as I know. It stops you turning the engine over. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELM327-OBDII-OBD-II-OBD2-USB-Car-Interface-V1-5-Auto-Diagnostic-Scanner-UK-/121269899979?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item1c3c3fd2cb#ht_4159wt_1393 one of these above along with http://www.multiecuscan.net/ free version download should work well. It lets you do quite a lot of things. Do not even attempt to load the software which comes with ot as will probably contain malware. I have not tested the reader adapter linked but have used others which appear the same from other suppliers. Also not saying it is the cheapest or best supplier to use. You will need a laptop or netbook computer to use it. The software gives you faults in english as well as the code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Clive H has raised the issue of battery again and is right to do so. If your battery is weak and voltage drops too much on starting, even though it turns over, there are times an engine just will not start. You could try jumping with a second battery to get those starting volts up and one way to do that is use jumper leads connected to your leisure batteries. Disconnect them 1st though from habitation supply...both leads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 AliB - 2014-03-25 2:03 PM I have no experience of OBD2 readers. Would one of these do the job? I don't mind spending that sort of money to get a bit of advance knowledge before committing the vehicle to a dealer. http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/obd2-scanner I do have breakdown cover with Caravan Guard but I'm not sure whether they will attempt a fix or simply transport you to a dealer. Almost any generic OBD2 scanner will do the basics. I bought a Maxiscan MS309 for about £13 off Ebay. I don't know who Caravan Guard are allied to but I think that most breakdown insurers' first step will be to send out a patrol to try the basics first and assess the situation. It would probably be an AA or RAC man who would turn up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted March 25, 2014 Author Share Posted March 25, 2014 Thanks Brambles. Just to confirm I did try to start the vehicle with jump leads from my car which has a heavy duty battery. Both with the jump leads and using its own battery the engine gives a healthy twirl. But as always the padlock light stays illuminated. Before calling out the recovery service I may take the battery out and give it a long charge. The vehicle is currently in a storage compound. It is such a back breaking job to lift the battery out that I have left that option to last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Have just been checking what you can do with stamdard cheap OBD2 modules and software. Teh options for reprogramming the immobiliser are not there. Thsi is not surpising as if it was then any Joe Dick or Harry could bypass it using a programmer. What you can do though is read the status of various conditions. e.g... Pic below. This is just a sample of a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Thanks Guys, I have ordered an OBD2 reader. Hopefully, It will arrive before the weekend. I will also remove the battery and bring it home to ensure it is fully charges. I'll let you know the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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