MORE POWER PLEASE - Peugeot boxer 2.5turboDiesel

[woodstock dave]

MORE POWER PLEASE - Peugeot boxer 2.5turboDiesel 108BHP OLD TYPE pump cannot be chipped remapped cos there isnt one. Its down to fiddling with the pump/ injectors

 

Anybody had this done? HERES WHY

 

MOTORHOME 1998 Elldis Autostratus EL - On road weight 3.4 tonne actual - Mileage 50,000

 

Peugeot 2.5 (2446cc) turbo diesel 5 spd. 108BHP 1998 - R reg

 

 

poor low down torque. Hill starts are attended by stalling, clutch burning or wheel spin at discretion of driver and amusement of onlookers, having driven most things in the past 40+ years it is highly embarrassing.

 

5th gear will not hold speed below 55mph and a constant need to go to 62-65mph in 4th then wait for the slightest gradient or headwind is hard work. will go from 65 to 80 mph on good undulating road - can catch you out sometimes

 

Otherwise the the engine is excellent, willing and economical 22-24MPG

 

I know I could put 14" wheels on the front (15" fitted as std) but ! feel re tuning would be the ideal

 

Regards, Woodstock Dave

 

[euroserv]

Hello Dave,

 

I suspect that the problem that you have is down to gear ratios. If you could swap your gearbox for one from a 3.5T chassis instead of what you probably have which is a long legged one from a panel van lighter than that. The 3.5T chassis would have had 16" wheels, and is also referred to as the '1800kg'

 

If the van has always behaved this way then an increase in power or torque will only make matters worse and come at the expense of increased fuel consumption and greater emissions which could get you into trouble at MOT time. A change of final drive ratio could be acheived with a diff swap but I doubt if you will find one on it's own, and most of the earlier boxes had integrated diff's anyway.

 

Nick

 

[Mr. Grumpy]

I think there is something wrong with yours unless you drive everywhere with your foot flat to the floor. We had an M reg 2.5td on a Swift 540 (3400 kg) and averaged 29mpg for 30,000 miles all over the UK cruising, where possible, at 60mph. With some extensive touring of Scotland & Wales we never had a problem with hill starts. The 540 had a rear kitchen so did not get much extra loaded behind the rear axle, just a couple of bikes.I think the only way to reliably get more power is to fit an intercooler which should help considerably although your first stop should be to find a good diesel specialist and make sure the injectors are OK and the injector pump isn't knackered..

[mikemoss]

Hi Woodstock Dave

 

Suspect there may be something amiss. Our R-reg Bessie has the same motor (OK then, it's a Fiat, but the 2.5 tdi cat which I guess is the same) and it's pulling the same weight (3400kg) on a very similar motorhome without any problems. It will hold fifth happily from around 45mph, which is more than could be said for its 2.8jdt predecessor in a newer and lighter motorhome.

 

Have you checked the turbo, and its assorted bits of hose? I can't imagine the gear ratios would be any different to ours.

 

Hope you manage to get it sorted, whatever the problem turns out to be.

[George Collings]

In 1998 the Boxer used a Citroen motor while the Ducato used Fiat own engine. It has a Lucas fuel injection system

 

I agree with previous posters that the first thing to get checked by a Lucas diesel specialist is that the motor is in good health.

 

It is possible to alter the pump settings to get some more power ( not so much as a computerised unit though) and to pass the Mot smoke test.

 

At the moment only smoke emissions are tested on a diesel but this may change in the future as equipment is becoming availiable to check for other pollutants as well.

 

 

[gordonaldson]

Wow, wow I just cannot believe what I am reading here about altering fuel pump settings to get more power... If you do tamper mark the original settings.

Like the lorries we used to see going up hills years ago belching out black smoke. Why. Because the driver said he got move power by tampering with the fuel pump.

22-24 mpg, your engines ok.

Exhaust issues; as we have learnt here a few weeks ago that part of his exhaust fell off and he got more power was interesting.

Intercooler has this engine got one. Somehow don't think so. See E-bay and make up your own silicone pipework.

If you had an ECU, buy a TUNE-IT.

How do you tune a main line Steam Train -- Put an English Electric V12 in the tender powering Traction Motors. Haven't you noticed ??

 

[George Collings]

I have driven non ECU diesels that have been tuned by altering the pump sttings but it was done in conjuction with a smoke meter so no visible smoke occured.

 

 

[woodstock dave]

Thanks to all respondents--

Re working on pump system, I had that opinion from WOW tuning who confirmed that my motor had no ecu/chip(via email MMM advert)

 

No way will I touch it.

 

A good local diesel engineer is the next stop I think

 

I dont think I want to be changing Gearbox/Diff asI would need an mechanic to do the work.

 

I will find out about inter-cooler.

 

I drive steadily usually and dont like to stress over rev an engine.

 

Many grateful thanks for all your suggestions, which I shall pursue.

 

Woodstock Dave

[Brian Kirby]

I'm with George.  I think you probably need to sniff out a diesel injection pump specialist.  Don't know how many there now are, because of the growth of common rail diesel injection. 

However, you van has averaged only some 4,000 miles per year, so an initial "good talking to" may help it along.  You say you like to drive it gently without subjecting it to stress.  I just wonder if you may ever so slightly be killing it with kindness?  These are, I think, oversquare, or nearly so, engines that need a few revs on to develop power.  I don't mean thrash it, it might die of shock after its cosseted life, but just hang on to the lower gears until you approach the red line a few times, and if it sounds happy do this a few times more while using your welly.  You should see the most unbelievable load of crud in the mirror as it blows out 12 years accumulated gunge and gets properly hot.  Take it for a longish run and keep it revving more as you go, hurry it a bit, change down for bends and turn on the power as you come out of them, in short, just make it work a bit and give it a good blow through.  Final thought, is the air cleaner element clear and new, and have the oil, oil filter, and fuel filter, been changed annually?

Your description of hill starts reminds me of a Peugeot 205D (non-turbo) I had which, if the revs/gradient/load ratio was wrong would, as I described it, bog down.  It would turn, it would not accelerate, it would smoke.  The only solution was to take the load off, rev it, let it clear it's throat, and then bring the clutch back in progressively at slightly higher revs.  The dealer couldn't get it right so I took it to an injection specialist who spent a bit of time on it, adjusted the settings a bit, and got rid of the problem.  So, if the above work-out doesn't bring any change, I think a specialist is your best answer.

[clay]

hi. my swift kon tiki 1998 same boxer engine and weight. when i bought it about 2 years ago she was really sluggish being used a lot from new but in the latter years used little (got full details with van). i have over the period of time used her quite a bit. i normally put injector cleaner in her regularly and dont spare the horses , as brian said rev her freely. she now goes very well from start through the gears altho 5th is the bugbear, as you said she struggles up hills and head wind. i do not hesitate to drop her down to 4th when she drops to 50 and bring her up to 60 before putting her back into 5th. this works fairly well and i think i have to be happy with this. >:-)

[Clive]

Been there Done that with a Mk 1 Landrover Disco 200 TDI.

If the motor is up to it then :-

 

Change the waste gate with one that gives a 50% increase in boost pressure. The Disco went from 1 BAR to 1.5 Bar.

 

Allied to this was a re-calibrated fuel pump, now you have more air you can use more fuel to go with it.

 

Then there are the hoses for the intercooler that will possibly require changing to handle the increase in boost pressure, and the clips that hold them on.

 

Then there was the brand new clutch that slipped at maximum torque so I had to have a milliatary clutch and pressure plate. More surface area and more spring pressure.

 

The cylinder head inlet ports were also polished and opened out and made to match the apertures in the inlet manifold.

 

Now it went like a train but that fan was noisy so it was replaced with a Kenlow electric jobbie.

 

Cornering was never the Disco,s best attribute and this spriteliness now achieved meant that some thick anti-roll bars had to be fitted. (Previously there were none)

 

But I was lucky, the engine never went BANG.

 

Now, what was the question?

 

C.

 

[onecal]

Hi, problems we have found and easy to cure, due to low mileage was a blocked up exhaust,,, yes you can change the wastgate and check all pipes on the intercooler and intercooler itself,,, change all filters , air and fuel,

Regards,

Brendan

[clay]

ouch, think i will struggle. might not get there very quickly but hopefully i will get there with my engine in one piece. lol :D

[woodstock dave]

Thanks for all the well thought replies. Extremely Helpful. Up and about again after some Angina's.

 

I have noticed that since reaching 60,000miles the engine has loosened up and is mow responding well, PARTICULARLY SINCE LOOKING IN THE FUEL TANK (accessed under passengers feet on rhd)AND REMOVING A LARGE BUILD UP MUCK ON THE FILTER. The tank is otherwise clean and virtually corrosion free.

 

TURBO INTER-COOLER - I notice that the radiator for this is greatly obscured by the bumper.

Any value in creating an opening to improve airflow? - I haven't seen it done.

 

Dave

[BGD]

Just one other point that may be of help...

 

I've got an A-class bodied motorhome, on the same Peugeot 2.5td chassis/engine, dating from 1992.

 

They are sluggish - as simple and basic as anything, but it's never gonna pull yer hat off.

It's a reliable, go-for-half-a-million-miles, but slowly, chugger.

 

But there was one thing that made ours go significantly better....

 

Not long after I got it, I was underneath it doing some maintenance. That involved disconnecting the bottom end of the turbo air supply rubber flexible hose (the one that drops down the front left hand side of the engine as you stand looking in through the bonnet; and which is covered with a mesh).

I only then noticed (because the hose is covered with mesh) that there was a slit in it, at the point where it bends, near to the bottom jubilee clip mounting , which had been caused I guess by vibration/heat/stress over the years. The mesh covering had completely disguised this slit/tear in the rubber hose inside it.

 

I cured it simply by getting, from ebay, a silicone "u-bend" pipe, made for turbo engines, and a metal connecting pipe, then just cut out the slit section and used the new bits to make up the same shape.

 

 

 

The difference in pulling power was immediate, and significant.....as was a whole load a black crap that the engine blew out for a few seconds once it was being pushed a bit under load.

It runs and pulls a LOT better now.

But it's still a chugger: into top gear at about 80kmph, and cruises at 100kms per hour.

It will do about 110kmph flat out, but the economy is even more rubbish then, and bits start to fall off, so we chug along at 100.

 

 

So, maybe worth checking every part of that hose, and any other hoses involved in your turbo air supply system, very very carefully, for hidden breaks/holes.......................

 

 

 

 

 

For spares etc, it's worth remembering that your Peugeot J5 engine and running gear is exactly the same as the ones badged as Citroen C25, and Talbot.......as they were all made by the same PSA group, and just badged differently.

Here's a useful Talbot owners club forum:

 

http://forums.preloved.co.uk/fuseaction-forums.showdiscussion/thread_id-13244/startrow-4601/maxrows-20/08a5ff4a.html

 

 

 

 

 

(In edit: Sorry, this may NOT apply to your engine; as I just noticed that you say yours is the Peugeot Boxer engine, not the earlier Peugeot J5.)