Desalman Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Hi, I have just joined the forum and want to introduce myself. My wife and I have just bought a Bailey Autograph 740 unit, we used to be trailer towers using a Bailey Unicorn Valencia. We live in France and have brought the 740 back here. It is a 2nd hand unit, 18 moths old on UK ( 14 ) plates. I am now trying to register the van here in France, without a great deal of success so far. The EC Cert of Conformity which came with the van is not acceptable to the French authorities. Apparently a 'CNIT' is required which needs to be applied for by Bailey. It may be that I will need to go down the road of the (equivalent of) single vehicle approval, this will inevitably need a change oh headlights to right-dip. So far I cannot easily find the most suitable replacements ( at an acceptable cost ). Does anyone have any comments ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums, Steve. I’m not going to attempt to talk you through the French registration procedure when a vehicle registered outside France is ‘imported' to that country - which is essentially what you will be doing with the Bailey motorhome - but obtaining a Certificate of Conformity can (from historical comments) prove to be a real challenge if the make/model of motorhome being ‘imported’ has never been marketed in France. A GOOGLE-search on “registering a motorhome in France” retrieves information that may be helpful https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=registering+motorhome+in+france but I would have thought that whatever procedure you follow to get the Bailey French-registered, you’ll be compelled to change its headlamps to the right-dipping type. (You’d normally have to swap the headlamps when UK-registering an imported vehicle with right-dipping headlamps and French registration regulations are much stricter than ours.) 2014 was a model-change year, so your Autograph 740 might be based on the outgoing X250 Peugeot Boxer or on the incoming X290 Boxer. X250 headlamps are quite different from X290 headlamps and, although it may be possible to obtain relatively inexpensive right-dipping ‘pattern’ X250 lights, I’m doubtful that these are marketed (yet) for X290 Boxers. X290 headlamps with ‘bulb-type’ DRLs (Daytime Running Lamps) are not cheap, and are significantly dearer when the DRLs are LED-type. The headlamps fitted to equivalent X250 or X290 Fiat Ducatos and Citroen Jumper will be respectively the same as those fitted to X250 or X290 Peugeot Boxers. Consequently, if you on-line search for Ducato and Jumper headlamps you might have more luck. For example, a GOOGLE-search “phare fiat ducato” produces this French advert http://www.cdiscount.com/auto/r-phare+fiat+ducato.html#_his_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 I think you find it a struggle, not least because the habitation door will be on the French offside, a matter that has defeated at least one attempt at doing what you propose. There should be no problem sourcing right dipping headlamps in France, though you may think them expensive, but then, so are left dipping headlamps in UK. My suggestion would be to investigate the time, costs, and legal requirements as fully as possible before you get too far in. I think you may find it worthwhile considering running your van under its UK registration for about a year (officially, it will be deemed exported from UK after six months, but I'm assuming you will make the odd trip back to UK) and then selling it in UK and buying a replacement in France. At least it will come with right dipping lamps an no extra cost, and the French market is far bigger than the UK market, so a lot more choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elamessa Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 I agree with Brian K. We had the same problem when we moved to France in 2009 with a Lunar motorhome and the Prefecture wanted COC for the base vehicle, the habitation side, gas certificates, electrical certificates etc they also wanted all the plug sockets changed to French equivalent, headlights changed it was a nightmare. I think your biggest problem is that Bailey don't sell motorhomes in France so their will be no details of the habitation side on any French database. I would suggest you do as we did in the end and sold our van back in the UK and purchased one here in France and as Brian K said it's a larger market here for motorhomes and, at the moment, are cheaper than in the UK but that will not be as big a saving if the Euro continues to fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 I think the fact that a Bailey motorhome will have its habitation entrance-door on the right may not be a show-stopper - though it probably won’t help! This 2011 forum discussion may be of interest http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Registering-a-UK-built-MH-in-France-/23386/ I recall a letter in a French motorhome magazine asking for help on French-registering a motorhome that had been bought outside France, but the particular make/model had never been marketed in France and the motorhome manufacturer no longer existed. The advice was that, if it proved impossible to obtain an acceptable Certificate of Conformity, the vehicle should be returned to the country from which it had been bought and sold there. A forum-member who had moved to France described recently the difficulties he was having registering his UK-specification motorhome there despite the vehicle having been originally manufactured by Pilote in France. The procedure became so challenging that he was considering having the vehicle transported back to the UK and sell it there, but he managed to French-register the motorhome eventually. There are companies that will assist with vehicle registration. For example http://www.hestocon.com/_en/kentekenregistratie.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desalman Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 Thanks to all for your comments. We are not new to the business of registering an import to France, In 2011 we imported a Bailey Unicorn Valencia and, whilst a bit ( a lot ) protracted we did get it registered. The fact that the door was on the 'wrong' side did not cause a problem, neither did the fact that UK style 240v mains sockets were fitted. There was not a Certificate of Conformity available for the Valencia so it had to be inspected and signed off by DRIRE ( now renamed DREAL ). The fact is that Bailey supply a document that is titled 'EC Certificate of Conformity' which is apparently more or less OK but should be accompanied by a 'CNIT'. I have no idea what a 'CNIT' is and have raised the question with Bailey, still waiting for comments from them. I presume that I will at some stage have to change the headlights, rather than using a mask but I am hoping that it will not be until the first CT is due ( Controle Technique, equal to the UK MOT ) at 4 yrs old. It seems that we have the latest type of headlights, ie the expensive type !!!!!!! We deliberately chose a UK van as opposed to a French / European van because of the layout . The European vans don't have as convenient cooking facilities, nor are the fixed beds as appealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 I believe you’ll find that there will be significant differences in French-registering a currently UK-registered RHD UK-specification Bailey motorhome to French-registering a Bailey caravan (which, of course, would not need to be registered in the UK). The CNIT (Code national d'identification du type) is mentioned here https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_national_d%27identification_du_type http://www.autopratique.com/comment-identifier-un-vehicule.php and you may have noticed that the 'vehicle registration assistance’ company I provided a link to in my last posting includes the statement "France For registration in France of your EU type approved vehicles, we can apply for you for CNIT registration numbers, for each type/variant. This number is consequently put on the Certificat of Conformity, after which registration in France is possibly without problems.” Best of luck with Bailey - I would have thought they won’t have a clue about CNITs... As you may be aware, when an imported motorhome is first registered in the UK nowadays its headlamps must meet certain criteria regarding the dipped-beam pattern. With Boxer, Ducato, and Relay/Jumper-based motohomes that use the standard cab, this means the original right-dipping headlamps must be swapped for their left-dipping equivalents. This occasionally results in the original headlamps being put on sale (usually via ebay) so you might get lucky and be able to source ‘secondhand’ right-dipping headlamps from the UK. From what has been said here in the past, a very stringent technical inspection will be carried out prior to a RHD ‘imported’ motorhome being registered in France, so I think you are going to have to swap the headlamps prior to registration, not 4 years on. (Can’t you get some advice from your local CT chaps: I would have thought they could point you in the right direction.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Hello, I,m the bloke who imported the Pilote, and I have no reason to think that you will not be able to register yours, one of the clever people on here will tell you how to contact me privately, and I will try to help you if you wish. You will need to change the headlights unless they are the sort that can be switched. You will need a partial certificate of conformity from the chassis manufacturer, expect to pay 2/300 € for this. You will need a gas safety certificate which should not be a problem, but will cost 3/400€.. You need to go to your local tax office and get a tax exemption certificate, it's free. We managed to get a copy of the specification of our conversion from Pilote which whilst it did not have any validity it did help when the vehicle was inspected, it cost 200€ U will need a certificate showing the weight of the vehicle, Front/Rear/Both. We typed the certificate, got the local weighbridge to stamp it and bunged them 10€. You will need to make a appointment to have it inspected by DREAL at their premises cost 400€ When this is all done and dusted you can get the CT done locally, get it insured in France, we were able to insure ours temporarily on it's UK number, take the paperwork to your local prefecture and they should relieve you of another 3/400€, and a few days later you will receive your registration. It took us quite a long time because we had no idea what we were doing, so people told us we needed this or that, but not where to get it, nor what else we needed to do, so it took forever, but in fact everyone was actually quite helpful and nice, and all the problems were me. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Archiesgrandad - 2016-08-21 9:59 PM Hello, I,m the bloke who imported the Pilote, and I have no reason to think that you will not be able to register yours, one of the clever people on here will tell you how to contact me privately, and I will try to help you if you wish. You will need to change the headlights unless they are the sort that can be switched. You will need a partial certificate of conformity from the chassis manufacturer, expect to pay 2/300 € for this. You will need a gas safety certificate which should not be a problem, but will cost 3/400€.. You need to go to your local tax office and get a tax exemption certificate, it's free. We managed to get a copy of the specification of our conversion from Pilote which whilst it did not have any validity it did help when the vehicle was inspected, it cost 200€ U will need a certificate showing the weight of the vehicle, Front/Rear/Both. We typed the certificate, got the local weighbridge to stamp it and bunged them 10€. You will need to make a appointment to have it inspected by DREAL at their premises cost 400€ When this is all done and dusted you can get the CT done locally, get it insured in France, we were able to insure ours temporarily on it's UK number, take the paperwork to your local prefecture and they should relieve you of another 3/400€, and a few days later you will receive your registration. It took us quite a long time because we had no idea what we were doing, so people told us we needed this or that, but not where to get it, nor what else we needed to do, so it took forever, but in fact everyone was actually quite helpful and nice, and all the problems were me. AGD 1700 euros?? Are vans much dearer in France then? I would have thought the OP would have been better to have direct in France PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 In one sense you are right, but in our case and possibly for this OP, there is some aspect of the van that we were prepared to pay for because we did not believe that we would find another van for the money we had, in France that would suit us as well. It seems that all motor vehicles in France are quite expensive, and I know that a lot of people buy from Belgium or Germany and import into France, but the general consensus around here is that it's hardly worth it , the authorities impose high taxes and the main franchise dealers are not interested in warranty work. It seems that the system doesn't mind if immigrant brings in their vehicle along with all their money and spends it in France, but they don't like their own people spending French money in another country. The average Frenchman tends to be low on ambition, and choses to work only enough to pay for his modest needs, this is why the shops don't open long hours, why they have so many public holidays, and it seems that car salesmen are not prepared to offer discounts or good trade in prices, they will wait until someone is prepared to pay the asking price, and make their profit. There is an Audi A6 that I have been keeping an eye on since we came here 16 months ago, they clean it and move it around the forecourt occasionally, but the price remains the same.. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solwaybuggier Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Desalman, another thing that may help is the Bailey Motorhome Owners group on Facebook. I won't use FB myself, but my wife does and we met a couple in Portugal in May who live in France and have successfully registered an Approach 740 there. (We were initially surprised to see it on an aire with French plates.) I understand this couple have already helped another member of the group through the process. I know people on here have a lot of experience, but there may be model-specific issues you can get help with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desalman Posted September 23, 2016 Author Share Posted September 23, 2016 Just an update: I have registered the Bailey Autograph on French plates this morning. No hassle or argument at the Prefecture. No inspection required. The ''special'' paperwork needed was an original CNIT certificate from Bailey ( cost £82.15 ) and an original Certificate of Conformity ( FOC from the dealer ), the rest of the required paperwork was the normal 'quittus fiscal', receipt of purchase, proof of residence etc. Just waiting now for the carte gris, which should take a couple of days then I will get the new plates made up and fitted. It's a pity I don't have a pop riveter as I could fit the plates myself, they have to be riveted in place, not screwed. edit, the cost of registration was about Euro 250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Good news. Presumably you needed to swap the UK-norm left-dipping headlamps to right-dipping ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted September 23, 2016 Share Posted September 23, 2016 Well done, didn't you do well. My french number plates are fixed with nuts and bolts, and passed the CT. If you are within reach of the Lot Valley, pop by, I have a pop riveter and will do the honours. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Way2Go Posted September 24, 2016 Share Posted September 24, 2016 When we moved to Germany with our 2 1/2 year old UK purchased Adria Coral I was expecting some high bills. Because the Adria was still quite new we still had all the paperwork which came with her. We registered her at the local vehicle registration office and felt so sorry for the guy because he had to search for all the information missing from the UK log book. Have you ever noticed how many boxes are NOT filled in on a log book? The German authorities need to have a lot more information. The number plates were made in a shed in the car park, while we waited, then it was back over to the office to have the two seals attached to the number plate. When the Adria reached 3 years old I was dreading the exhaustive TÜV (MOT) and was expecting a huge bill for the Fiat light clusters to be replaced with ones that dipped the other way. Surprise, surprise they passed her as being compliant with my Official Fiat plastic beam benders in place (with those little black cut outs). Winter tyres (we've already discussed elsewhere) and they put a sticker on the dash telling me to turn off the gas during transit (whch I ignore because we have the Truma cutoff valve thingy installed. Nothing about changing electric plugs or anything else. Next TÜV in 2 years time (unlike the UK's annual MOT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desalman Posted September 24, 2016 Author Share Posted September 24, 2016 There was no need to change the headlights, although they will be changed. edit: The carte gris arrived this morning, a shade less than 24 hrs since applying for it, that's efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.