Which Selenia Oil for Fiat Ducato Multijet

[Dez]

Hello,

 

I have a 120 Multijet (model year 2010) which has been converted to a campervan. I have just done a low mileage oil change. I purchased the oil and filter from a Fiat dealer (ensuring genuine parts were used).

 

I was expecting Selenia 5w 40 (as per stated in service book) but sales guy insisted it required 5w 30. What is the difference ?

 

 

Purchased = Selenia 5w 30 WR Pure Energy (ACEA C2)

 

Manual states = Selenia 5w 40 WR (ACEA B3/4)

 

 

Selenia website states 5w 30 should be used for MultiJets and everywhere else states 5w 40. (P.S. it has no DPF).

 

[euroserv]

Hello,

 

All Fiat Diesels since 2005 are supposed to use the 5W40 Selenia WR (Wide Range) Oil and then in 2011 with the Euro 5 vehicles arriving they changed that to 5W30. The bottom line is that both are fine and the 5W30 is more commonly used in the market so will be easier to obtain in the future.

 

Most importantly is that both are Semi synthetics. You only have to be careful with semi's and full synthetics. I only know of one Fully Synthetic 5W40 that is completely 'miscible' with Semi synthetics and that is the one we use. Gulf Formula G.

 

To summarise; check that the 5W30 you have bought is semi synthetic before topping up your vehicle if it currently has 5W40 Selenia in it. If the 5W30 is fully synthetic ask to see a data sheet that confirms that it is miscible with the old oil.

 

Nick

[Guest peter]

One for Nick

If you do a complete drain down and re-fill, can you use fully synthetic instead of semi?.

[euroserv]

Hello,

 

If you use an Fully syn oil which is miscible with Semi Syn then you would have no problem at all. If you don't or just don't know; in theory you should also use a flushing oil before refilling with the different type but in practice this should not be an issue.

 

I would advise though not to use a fully synthetic oil or in fact any grade other than 10W40 semi in any pre 2007 (X250) engine. We have experienced several leaking engine seals since following the direction of Fiat and putting 5W40 synthetics in these older engines, and having repaired them and going back to 10W40 semi have had no more problems.

 

Post 2007 vehicles are all running on Gulf 5W40 Full syn and some have now reached 250,000 miles without any leaks, so they are obviously better made and have tougher seals.

 

A further point related to the earlier question is that the 5W30 oil being recommended by Fiat now is a 'Low SAPs' oil that is required for DPF's and use of other oils can cause damage. This is the same requirement as ALL current diesel engines, but i would be much more impressed if the oil stayed in the engine in the first place! Engineers take note!!

 

No harm can come from using Low SAPs oil in engines that don't strictly require it but you will be paying more for it with no benefit for you or your vehicle.

 

Nick

[Guest peter]

Thanks for that Nick, I've got a 2008 2.2 sprinter 315 based m/h and am planning on using fully synthetic low saps oil in it.

[trevor166uk]

Hi

 

I too have a 2010 fiat 2.3 120bhp engine. In my handbook it states the recommended oil specification is SAE 5w-30 synthetic lubricant. It also says the recommended oil meeting that spec is SELENIA WR P.E.

 

An Internet search reveals that oil to be SAE 5w-30 fully synthetic. (Selenia website)

 

I have bought COMMA ENGINE OIL Pro-Tech 5w-30 for mine. That is a fully synthetic oil to ACEA C2 spec. (Amazon - believe it or not!)

 

The thing that confuses me is that 2 2010 Ducato handbooks seem to say different things. Do I take it from Nick's post that my vehicle does not have a DPF (called an 'exhaust treatment system' on the selinia website) and that this oil is not strictly required?

 

Confused of Yorkshire.

 

 

[Guest Peter James]

Dez - 2012-11-08 1:05 PM

 

I was expecting Selenia 5w 40 (as per stated in service book) but sales guy insisted it required 5w 30. What is the difference ?

 

 

In the Citroen Relay version handbook there is a viscosity chart which I have scanned in here.

It seems that in the temperature ranges we experience, any viscosity range is suitable

[Guest Peter James]

Dez - 2012-11-08 1:05 PM

 

Which Selenia Oil for Fiat Ducato Multijet

 

 

The question suggests you have fallen for Fiat's marketing hype which suggests only their own brand of oil (Selinia) is suitable?

Peugeot Citroen recommend a different brand of oil for the same engine - and even a specific brand of diesel (Total) *-)

And when the same engine is in the Transit, Ford recommend yet another different brand *-)

[BGD]

Peter James - 2012-11-14 11:27 AM

 

Dez - 2012-11-08 1:05 PM

 

Which Selenia Oil for Fiat Ducato Multijet

 

 

The question suggests you have fallen for Fiat's marketing hype which suggests only their own brand of oil (Selinia) is suitable?

Peugeot Citroen recommend a different brand of oil for the same engine - and even a specific brand of diesel (Total) *-)

And when the same engine is in the Transit, Ford recommend yet another different brand *-)

 

 

 

 

BINGO!

 

Any brand of decent engine oil that meets the technical API etc spec, and is of the desired viscosity range will be suitable.

 

It ain't the brand name on the bottle that's important.

Fiat don't make oil. Neither does Ford, General Motors, Daimler Benz or any other of the vehicle assemblers.

They simply pick an oil which is to the tech spec that their engine designers want, from an Oil supplier that they do a deal with, who then badges bottles of it for them to buy in bulk, and then sell to their dealers, who then sell on to Mr muggins at an astronomical mark-up.

The actual oil "manufacturer" (Castrol, Repsol etc) will be selling gazillions of litres of the same spec oil in their own-brand containers too, normally for a LOT less than the Vehicle-assembler-branded bottles that your local Fiat/Renault dealer rapes you financially for.

[euroserv]

Hello,

 

It's not in my nature to be argumentative but there is a need for a correction here.....

 

Fiat DO actually make oil!

 

As far as I am aware; no other manufacturer has an oil firm within their group but Fiat actually owns Fiat Lubrificianti which produces Selenia branded lubricants for Fiat and Urania brand for Iveco. The Tutela range of lubricants and other fluids is also a Fiat brand.

 

For reasons that I won't go into now I have formed the opinion that both Selenia and Urania oils are of the highest quality and as long as they are priced competitively I would buy them without hesitation.

 

The problem is that they are not at all competitive! When I was seeking a supplier of 5W40 Semi Syn for our Ducato vans I approached their UK distributor and was quoted £944 per 200 litres. I got a price for the Gulf 5W40 Fully Synthetic oil that we use that was less than half of that price.

 

That was a few years ago and all prices have risen significantly but you get the idea?

 

Stick with the correct grade for your vehicle, at least while it is under warranty.

 

Ford, for instance tried to refuse a warranty claim on a vehicle that we had serviced with 5W40 when it should have had 5W30 in it. It took some time to convince them that they were being stupid before they relented.

 

Only Fiats that are Euro5 will have a DPF and therefore need low SAPS oil. This 5W30 low SAPS will almost certainly be a fully synthetic because that is all that is being made at present. All others can run on 5W40 Semi syn. I stress again; do not use 5W40 in vans made prior to 2006, especially the 2.8JTD. You will get oil leaks! For these vehicles 10W40 is ideal and 15W40 was perfectly all right up until 2001 anyway! We have seen many 2.5 and 2.8 (Turbo) Ducato's that have done well over 300,000 miles on good quality 15W40 and shown no engine wear at all!

 

 

[BGD]

Nick -

 

Off-topic I know, but I do still think Fiat doesn't make oil.

 

Fiat Lubrificanti isn't owned by Fiat at all.

It's a wholly owned subsidiary of Magnetti Marelli, the independent international automotive parts makers, who supply parts to just about all the volume vehicle manufacturers globally.

 

(Sorry for the thread hijack)

[euroserv]

Hijack continued......

 

And Magneti Marelli is a wholly owned subsidiary of Fiat Automobiles; Chairman Sergio Marchionne (as with Fiat Group).

 

Sorry bud.

[Airstream]

Hi,

Said on my tin Petronas

Who do make oil

Ray

[Wooie]

This one is a question for Nick.

 

I have a 2006 Peugeot 2.8 HDi which as you know has the Fiat 2.8 JTD engine.

 

It even still has all the Fiat stickers on it ...............LOL

 

Whenever i want oil and try and order it either from the main dealer or parts suppliers

 

do they insist on try to give me either " 5W30 or 5W40 Fully or Semi-Synthetic Oil."

 

The last one even offered me " 5W30 Fully Synthetic Low Saps C2 Oil "

 

I have only every used " 10W40 Semi-Synthetic " and never had a problem, runs like

 

a dream and not a leak in site.

 

I`m just curious and wonder if you can shed some light on this.

 

Regards.

 

Graham.

[Airstream]

Hi again,

 

Just did a quick web check to see if I had it right re who makes Selenia and found

 

http://www.pli-petronas.com/products/am_selenia.aspx

 

Any others?

 

Ray

[Guest Peter James]

Well all this about who makes the oil is interesting.

But when it comes to which oil to use, I concur don't pay extra for a brand name because all that really matters is the technical spec matches or exceeds that in the drivers handbook API B4 etc.

 

 

[euroserv]

Wooie - 2012-11-14 7:29 PM

 

This one is a question for Nick.

 

I have a 2006 Peugeot 2.8 HDi which as you know has the Fiat 2.8 JTD engine.

 

It even still has all the Fiat stickers on it ...............LOL

 

Whenever i want oil and try and order it either from the main dealer or parts suppliers

 

do they insist on try to give me either " 5W30 or 5W40 Fully or Semi-Synthetic Oil."

 

The last one even offered me " 5W30 Fully Synthetic Low Saps C2 Oil "

 

I have only every used " 10W40 Semi-Synthetic " and never had a problem, runs like

 

a dream and not a leak in site.

 

I`m just curious and wonder if you can shed some light on this.

 

Regards.

 

Graham.

 

 

Hi Graham,

 

From the beginning......

 

Up until 1998 Fiat (et al) specified 15W40 mineral oil and that was fine. The 2.5 and later 2.8 engines ran well, were very clean inside after many hundreds of thousands of miles and rarely had any leaks.

 

About 1999 The handbooks supplied with new vans changed to stipulate 10W40 Semi synthetic oil. The only changes that had gone on under the bonnet was the adoption of common rail injection and the rest of the engine was pretty much as before. The only reason for the change of oil spec was a potential improvement in fuel economy by having a lower viscosity oil; and this would perhaps negate the increase in fuel consumption that happened at that time. These engines were Euro3. The change of oil spec did not lead to any new oil leaks.

 

For some strange reason, for the 2005 model year, the oil spec changed again to 5W40 WR Semi syn oil and we followed this instruction without question to prevent any issues with warranties but after a couple of years of using this oil we noticed some oil leaks from main and rear oil seals. We repaired them but did not immediately attribute this problem to the oil.

 

In 2007 we received our first batch of x250 vans and these were Euro4 and also required 5W40 so in it went. At about the same time we decided to change back to 10W40 for the Euro3 vans and any that had this oil in and had already had seals replaced did not leak again.

 

The latest vans are Euro5 and have Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF) and these are very sensitive to contamination from chemicals released from oil when it gets hot. These chemicals are grouped together into the term SAPs and a low SAPs oil is required. The only low SAPs oils currently in production are 5W30 Fully synthetics and are therefore the only ones recommended. If and when a 5W40 low SAPs becomes available this will also be suitable.

 

To summarise;

 

10W40 oil is perfectly fine for every Sevel type engine up to 2006 Euro3 engines.

5W40 semi or fully syn oil is required for Euro4 engines from 2006 (x250) 5W30 is also fine.

5W30 Low SAPs oil is ONLY required for 2011 onwards Euro5 engines. It won't harm any older engines since 2006 but will be a waste of money.

Don't use 5W40 in anything built before 2006 and that includes all Euro 1,2 and 3 vehicles. It will lead to oil leaks.

 

Remember that after the warranty is over, it's your van and you can put what you like in the sump. The manufacturer does not always know best and won't notify you of any updated handbooks or procedures if it means admitting that they got it wrong!

 

Nick

[trevor166uk]

Peter James - 2012-11-14 10:27 AM

 

Dez - 2012-11-08 1:05 PM

 

Which Selenia Oil for Fiat Ducato Multijet

 

 

The question suggests you have fallen for Fiat's marketing hype which suggests only their own brand of oil (Selinia) is suitable?

Peugeot Citroen recommend a different brand of oil for the same engine - and even a specific brand of diesel (Total) *-)

And when the same engine is in the Transit, Ford recommend yet another different brand *-)

 

 

I just feel I have to point out that the 120bhp engine fitted to the Fiat is not the same engine as the 120bhp unit fitted to the Peugeot and Citroen versions of the Sevel van, nor is it fitted to the Transit.

 

The Fiat 120bhp engine is the 2287cc belt cam Iveco unit. It is the same engine which in 130bhp form (and now in 150bhp Euro 5 form as well) is fitted to Fiat based coachbuilts. Don't confuse it with the 2.2 120bhp unit (chain cam) fitted to the peugeot and citroen and ford vans.

 

Regards.

[Guest Peter James]

trevor166uk - 2012-11-15 6:15 PM

 

Peter James - 2012-11-14 10:27 AM

 

Dez - 2012-11-08 1:05 PM

 

Which Selenia Oil for Fiat Ducato Multijet

 

 

The question suggests you have fallen for Fiat's marketing hype which suggests only their own brand of oil (Selinia) is suitable?

Peugeot Citroen recommend a different brand of oil for the same engine - and even a specific brand of diesel (Total) *-)

And when the same engine is in the Transit, Ford recommend yet another different brand *-)

 

 

I just feel I have to point out that the 120bhp engine fitted to the Fiat is not the same engine as the 120bhp unit fitted to the Peugeot and Citroen versions of the Sevel van, nor is it fitted to the Transit.

 

The Fiat 120bhp engine is the 2287cc belt cam Iveco unit. It is the same engine which in 130bhp form (and now in 150bhp Euro 5 form as well) is fitted to Fiat based coachbuilts. Don't confuse it with the 2.2 120bhp unit (chain cam) fitted to the peugeot and citroen and ford vans.

 

Regards.

 

True, but the 2.2 120bhp unit (chain cam) fitted to the peugeot and citroen and ford vans is also fitted to the Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen in 100bhp form. The 3 litre is also fitted in all 3 makes. So what I said applies to both those engines

[Brock]

I have a 130bhp 2013 Euro 5 Fiat engine with DPF. My handbook says use SAE 5W-30 grade synthetic base lubricant Fiat 9.55535-SI certification [silenia WR P.E.].

 

A search on the Petronas site shows the oil meeting those requirements is a fully synthetic oil [selenia WR Pure Energy 5W-30]. This rings true with Nick's comment that "Only Fiats that are Euro5 will have a DPF and therefore need low SAPS oil. This 5W30 low SAPS will almost certainly be a fully synthetic because that is all that is being made at present."

 

When I asked my Fiat Professional dealer, the Parts Department said the oil was semi synthetic. I then rang another FPPD who said I needed a fully synthentic oil and they would use fully synthetic Castrol 5W-40 which they buy in bulk - they don't use Silenia!

 

AAAAARRRRRGH!

[bazooka]

Hi Nick,following your advice i use 10-40 semi synthetic on my 2004 2.8 tdi no problems at all

Bas :-D

[euroserv]

It is very confusing indeed.

 

We are using Exol lubricants now and they have two versions of their low SAPs oil. Both are 5W30 fully synthetic and one bears the Fiat 9.55535-S1 spec and the other carries a Ford and VW approval. Exol cannot divulge the difference to us but the rep has assured me that it is 'to keep the manufacturer's happy' and that they are identical oils that exceed the requirements of all manufacturers.

 

In a Euro 5 you can use pretty much any oil that clearly states low SAPs and is 5W30 fully synthetic. In the event of a warranty claim the manufacturer will be able to tell that it is the correct viscosity but unless you tell them the brand; they will have no reason to query it. The low SAPs oils are incredibly thin at room temperature. I have never seen anything like it before. Not going to argue as long as I get no leaks!

[Brock]

I was gobsmacked at the huge range of ACEA categories and the claimed suitability of each oil for a small range of vehicles. Gone are the days when you could just pick up a can of oil at the local garage and not worry about it.

 

There is only one place on the Wirral that sells the required ACEA C2 compliant oil. It is a small motor factors selling Miller Oils. My nearest Fiat dealer selling the recommended Selenia is 60 miles away. Castrol Magnatec can also be supplied C2 and Fiat compliant. For some obscure reason, Asda Direct sell this but Halfords do not.

 

I'm not worried. My van has used a small amount of oil and doesn't need topping up yet. My last van went 8 years without needing a top up because it had an annual service. I'll buy on line and pay the heavy delivery charge for lubricants. It's still cheaper than using the van to get to a retailer and I can get Silenia.

 

I've also realised why the Fiat Professional dealer recommended the wrong Castrol grade. When I went on the Castrol website and keyed in my registration, it came up with the oil grade for a 2009 Ducato. Don't know why; I do have proof mine is a Euro5.

 

I suppose this is the price we pay to reduce the exhaust emissions. I wonder what Euro 6 will bring.

 

Thanks Nick.

 

:-S

[Brock]

I was gobsmacked at the huge range of ACEA categories and the claimed suitability of each oil for a small range of vehicles. Gone are the days when you could just pick up a can of oil at the local garage and not worry about it.

 

There is only one place on the Wirral that sells the required ACEA C2 compliant oil. It is a small motor factors selling Miller Oils. My nearest Fiat dealer selling the recommended Selenia is 60 miles away. Castrol Magnatec can also be supplied C2 and Fiat compliant. For some obscure reason, Asda Direct sell this but Halfords do not.

 

I'm not worried. My van has used a small amount of oil and doesn't need topping up yet. My last van went 8 years without needing a top up because it had an annual service. I'll buy on line and pay the heavy delivery charge for lubricants. It's still cheaper than using the van to get to a retailer and I can get Silenia.

 

I've also realised why the Fiat Professional dealer recommended the wrong Castrol grade. When I went on the Castrol website and keyed in my registration, it came up with the oil grade for a 2009 Ducato. Don't know why; I do have proof mine is a Euro5.

 

I suppose this is the price we pay to reduce the exhaust emissions. I wonder what Euro 6 will bring.

 

Thanks Nick.

 

:-S

[Tribsa]

euroserv - 2012-11-15 11:19 AM

 

Wooie - 2012-11-14 7:29 PM

 

This one is a question for Nick.

 

I have a 2006 Peugeot 2.8 HDi which as you know has the Fiat 2.8 JTD engine.

 

It even still has all the Fiat stickers on it ...............LOL

 

Whenever i want oil and try and order it either from the main dealer or parts suppliers

 

do they insist on try to give me either " 5W30 or 5W40 Fully or Semi-Synthetic Oil."

 

The last one even offered me " 5W30 Fully Synthetic Low Saps C2 Oil "

 

I have only every used " 10W40 Semi-Synthetic " and never had a problem, runs like

 

a dream and not a leak in site.

 

I`m just curious and wonder if you can shed some light on this.

 

Regards.

 

Graham.

 

 

Hi Graham,

 

From the beginning......

 

Up until 1998 Fiat (et al) specified 15W40 mineral oil and that was fine. The 2.5 and later 2.8 engines ran well, were very clean inside after many hundreds of thousands of miles and rarely had any leaks.

 

About 1999 The handbooks supplied with new vans changed to stipulate 10W40 Semi synthetic oil. The only changes that had gone on under the bonnet was the adoption of common rail injection and the rest of the engine was pretty much as before. The only reason for the change of oil spec was a potential improvement in fuel economy by having a lower viscosity oil; and this would perhaps negate the increase in fuel consumption that happened at that time. These engines were Euro3. The change of oil spec did not lead to any new oil leaks.

 

For some strange reason, for the 2005 model year, the oil spec changed again to 5W40 WR Semi syn oil and we followed this instruction without question to prevent any issues with warranties but after a couple of years of using this oil we noticed some oil leaks from main and rear oil seals. We repaired them but did not immediately attribute this problem to the oil.

 

In 2007 we received our first batch of x250 vans and these were Euro4 and also required 5W40 so in it went. At about the same time we decided to change back to 10W40 for the Euro3 vans and any that had this oil in and had already had seals replaced did not leak again.

 

The latest vans are Euro5 and have Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF) and these are very sensitive to contamination from chemicals released from oil when it gets hot. These chemicals are grouped together into the term SAPs and a low SAPs oil is required. The only low SAPs oils currently in production are 5W30 Fully synthetics and are therefore the only ones recommended. If and when a 5W40 low SAPs becomes available this will also be suitable.

 

To summarise;

 

10W40 oil is perfectly fine for every Sevel type engine up to 2006 Euro3 engines.

5W40 semi or fully syn oil is required for Euro4 engines from 2006 (x250) 5W30 is also fine.

5W30 Low SAPs oil is ONLY required for 2011 onwards Euro5 engines. It won't harm any older engines since 2006 but will be a waste of money.

Don't use 5W40 in anything built before 2006 and that includes all Euro 1,2 and 3 vehicles. It will lead to oil leaks.

 

Remember that after the warranty is over, it's your van and you can put what you like in the sump. The manufacturer does not always know best and won't notify you of any updated handbooks or procedures if it means admitting that they got it wrong!

 

Nick

 

Very informative!

 

Ok, from your information I need 5W40 semi or fully syn oil is required for Euro4 engines from 2006 (x250) 5W30 is also fine.

 

What fancy numbers/code do I need to look for on the tin?