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Blame it all on Brexit?
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userBarryd999
Posted: 25 January 2019 3:44 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-25 3:36 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-25 11:18 AM

Well currently one of the amendments I believe is to allow the house to vote on a variety of Brexit outcomes to establish which one would have a chance of passing. If we cannot have a second vote then this would seem the logical choice to avoid a no deal Brexit. What is the point of May just coming back with the same old plan which there is no majority for and risking the can just getting kicked down the road until we fall off the no deal cliff which remember all the pollys told us nobody voted for or wants and also that it would never happen? Have we forgotten that?

The house has a duty to ensure we do not suffer a no deal Brexit. Remaining is what I would prefer but if thats not possible then we have to have a solution that a majority of MPs can accept that prevents no deal.

I seem to remember reading a poll the other day that said approximately half of Brexiters had voted for a no-deal Brexit. Whether that is what those polled actually thought at the time, or was just bravado, I have no idea. Wonderful things, referendums, don't you think?


Well here is another idea then if its agreed that there can never be another in / out referendum and that we do have to leave have a public vote on

Leave with no deal
Leave on Mays Deal
Leave on Norway+ deal

That way we would be honouring the referendum result but letting the public decide on the actual type of deal we leave on. I would prefer an in out deal with the option to remain but I Cannot see how Brexiteers could argue with the above as we would then find out which version of leave was the most popular.
userTracker
Posted: 25 January 2019 4:24 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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A fourth option - a unique one off deal construted specifically to meet the needs of the UK and of the EU fairly and equally, not a cobbled together lash up of other nation's deals.

I would vote for that provided the EU would commit to it - if not -

A fifth option - 'none of the above'.
usermalc d
Posted: 25 January 2019 4:31 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 
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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-25 3:36 PM


I seem to remember reading a poll the other day that said approximately half of Brexiters had voted for a no-deal Brexit. Whether that is what those polled actually thought at the time, or was just bravado, I have no idea.

Wonderful things, referendums, don't you think?



We are told that one of the biggest problems with the last referendum is that a lot of young people were just a bit too young to vote.

But no-one explains how we could stop that happening with a new referendum.

userBarryd999
Posted: 25 January 2019 4:33 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Tracker - 2019-01-25 4:24 PM

A fourth option - a unique one off deal construted specifically to meet the needs of the UK and of the EU fairly and equally, not a cobbled together lash up of other nation's deals.

I would vote for that provided the EU would commit to it - if not -

A fifth option - 'none of the above'.


I dont think there is much chance of that. This is all going back to 2016 where Brexiteers promised us a fantastic deal with all the benefits of being in the EU while still leaving which presumably is why a lot of people ticked the "leave" box. Sounded great if you believed it.

You cant have none of the above really. We gambled on Brexit because it was over sold and now its been proved to be a complete pig in a poke so whatever options we take now there will never be a majority in favour of it (Well to be fair remaining is probably the only one with a majority). So chances are whatever we agree on not many people will be happy with it. The Unicorns and sunlit uplands have gone. Its like being left with the crappy chocolates at the end of a box that nobody really wants.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 25 January 2019 5:38 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-25 1:36 PM
Tracker - 2019-01-25 11:43 AM
Barryd999 - 2019-01-25 11:18 AM
The house has a duty to ensure we do not suffer a no deal Brexit. Remaining is what I would prefer but if thats not possible then we have to have a solution that a majority of MPs can accept that prevents no deal.

Fine in theory, but the EU has to agree too and that seems unlikely given their present attitude?

Not at all Rich. The EU will change its stance if Theresa drops some of her red lines. They have made that clear. One example would be a permanent customs Union for the entire UK. I dont particularly support a Norway type deal but thats another one they might accept. The EU will shift for a softer Brexit so if that was what a majority in Parliament would go for in any "tests" then its possible and would remove the no deal threat. As said I would rather remain but if thats not possible then we need to find out what will get through Parliament that will also be acceptable to the EU. There is no point May carrying on with her deal as it stands at all.

The problem is history, and our inability to manage it.

One might have hoped that HMG would have turned it's mind to what it would do if it got a leave vote before it proposed the referendum. After all what, in terms of the national interest, was the rush? But no, lets just try it and see what happens, aided and abetted by a parliament that had apparently nodded off.

One might have hoped that having got their answer, HMG might then have sat down and worked out strategy what they thought best in the national interest before serving the Article 50 notice. After all what, in terms of the national interest, was the rush? But no, lets just try it and see what happens, aided and abetted by a parliament that had apparently nodded off.

One might have hoped that somewhere along the line, ideally well before proposing the referendum, HMG might have investigated all the potential legal implications of leaving the EU, and so would have realised that the Irish border presented a potential impasse. After all what, in terms of the national interest, was the rush? But no, lets just try it and see what happens, aided and abetted by a parliament that had apparently nodded off.

So now, having had a referendum that was unnecessary and poorly thought through, which resulted in a decision none of the aforementioned dormant politicians expected, we are basically stuck with an apparently unresolvable legal and political barrier to achieving what "the people" wanted.

The EU requires full, normal, international border security installations at its borders. This is not a "special" requirement for the UK-Ireland border, it is what happens at all EU external borders. The Belfast Agreement (AKA the Good Friday Agreement) rules out such installations on the Irish border. The Common Travel Area agreements between Ireland and the UK (which date back to 1923 and, despite occasional alterations, remain in force) say that the British and the Irish can cross the UK - Ireland border unhindered (though others may not). The "Irish backstop" says that the UK must remain in the customs union and the single market, and must permit free movement of people after Brexit until negotiations on the future relationship are completed. The clear implication of the backstop is that any border solution must provide the means of checking the passage of people and goods without actual installations, and that negotiations on the border cannot be finalised until this conundrum is resolved. There are 270 road crossings over that presently completely open border!

The government seems to think it can solve the problem by using electronic customs clearances, which is fine for the bona fide goods themselves, but does not address people, and completely ignores the fact that even now, with both UK and Ireland in the EU, all kinds of "unauthorised" goods find their way across! All they are doing is kicking the can down the road in the hope that some solution can, one day, be found.

There is an obvious solution, but it seems it would have to involve Northern Ireland remaining in the EU, with the EU border being re-sited into the Irish Sea. That, it seems, spells real trouble somewhere - probably in several places!

Why has this come as a surprise to HMG, which was closely involved in both the Common Travel Area agreements and the Belfast Agreement? Were they all fast asleep? It is, quite simply, and literally, unbelievable.
userBarryd999
Posted: 25 January 2019 11:12 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Well one things for sure all the Brexit leaders talk about it being easy to find a solution to the Irish border with technology and various other schemes they were telling us many moons ago was clearly complete bollox. If they were so confident in them providing a magical solution why are they so adamant to have the back stop removed or time limited? Surely they will have this marvellous solution within a couple of years or so wont they? Of course they wont.

Unfortunately the EU are not stupid and it was a mistake for the likes of Boris, Smuggy etc to think they were. They even talked about how they would be able to just renege on parts of the withdrawal agreement further down the line and now the EU has it stitched up like a Kipper (oops) and rightly so.
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 January 2019 9:20 AM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-25 11:12 PM

Well one things for sure all the Brexit leaders talk about it being easy to find a solution to the Irish border with technology and various other schemes they were telling us many moons ago was clearly complete bollox. If they were so confident in them providing a magical solution why are they so adamant to have the back stop removed or time limited? Surely they will have this marvellous solution within a couple of years or so wont they? Of course they wont.

Unfortunately the EU are not stupid and it was a mistake for the likes of Boris, Smuggy etc to think they were. They even talked about how they would be able to just renege on parts of the withdrawal agreement further down the line and now the EU has it stitched up like a Kipper (oops) and rightly so.


I'm not bothered by the Irish border since I discovered NI Catholics are predicted to out number Protestants by 2021 ...........

So by the time we have reached the end of the transition period I predict NI Catholics will be demanding a referendum ............

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43823506

"The last census in 2011 put the Protestant population at 48%, just 3% more than Catholics at 45%.

More recent figures from 2016 show that among those of working age 44% are now Catholic and 40% Protestant."

userBarryd999
Posted: 26 January 2019 10:17 AM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-26 9:20 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-25 11:12 PM

Well one things for sure all the Brexit leaders talk about it being easy to find a solution to the Irish border with technology and various other schemes they were telling us many moons ago was clearly complete bollox. If they were so confident in them providing a magical solution why are they so adamant to have the back stop removed or time limited? Surely they will have this marvellous solution within a couple of years or so wont they? Of course they wont.

Unfortunately the EU are not stupid and it was a mistake for the likes of Boris, Smuggy etc to think they were. They even talked about how they would be able to just renege on parts of the withdrawal agreement further down the line and now the EU has it stitched up like a Kipper (oops) and rightly so.


I'm not bothered by the Irish border since I discovered NI Catholics are predicted to out number Protestants by 2021 ...........

So by the time we have reached the end of the transition period I predict NI Catholics will be demanding a referendum ............

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43823506

"The last census in 2011 put the Protestant population at 48%, just 3% more than Catholics at 45%.

More recent figures from 2016 show that among those of working age 44% are now Catholic and 40% Protestant."



Jesus Dave! Stop applying Brexiteer logic! In your desperate attempt to dump those pesky Irish that are spoiling your Brexit you have overlooked a couple of points. Plenty of Catholics north and south have their own reservations, not least the financial cost, adding up to a fraught, complex tangle of identity, ideology and economics. Its not as simple as soon as the day comes where there is one more Catholic in NI they will then have a referendum and become united. Your also forgetting these new Catholics that now outnumber the Protestants will not be voting age for a while Dont forget also that your blessed DUP who are pretty much just keeping your beloved Tory Party in power (The tail wagging the dog) might not be too happy with the idea either. Well furious wont come close.

I dare say it might happen one day but not on the time scale your desperately hoping for.

Edited by Barryd999 2019-01-26 10:17 AM
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 26 January 2019 11:15 AM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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I'd also point out that what Dave is clinging to is a forecast, prepared by experts. Oh dear. Selective forecast picking is even more foolish that believing any one forecast in isolation. As Barry says, there is no natural law that says Catholics vote one way only, and Protestants invariably vote another. Some undoubtedly do, but not all, so that outcome is not a given. One day possibly, but that day is extremely unlikely to be within the Brexit timescale.

I've belatedly been watching Fergal Keane's History of Ireland - and although I'd known Ireland had been treated badly by Britain in the past, starting with the Normans, I'd no idea quite how badly. No wonder the UK isn't exactly flavour of the month for the Irish.
userTracker
Posted: 26 January 2019 11:36 AM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 11:15 AM

I'd also point out that what Dave is clinging to is a forecast, prepared by experts. Oh dear. Selective forecast picking is even more foolish that believing any one forecast in isolation. As Barry says, there is no natural law that says Catholics vote one way only, and Protestants invariably vote another. Some undoubtedly do, but not all, so that outcome is not a given. One day possibly, but that day is extremely unlikely to be within the Brexit timescale.

I've belatedly been watching Fergal Keane's History of Ireland - and although I'd known Ireland had been treated badly by Britain in the past, starting with the Normans, I'd no idea quite how badly. No wonder the UK isn't exactly flavour of the month for the Irish.


Forecasts by 'experts' - oh dear yes - far too much of that on here!

I have not seen the programme but I do agree about the UK/Eire history. On a similar basis the UK seems to have been able to move on from the Germany and Japan, and France and Spain, episodes in our history, so perhaps the Irish are looking forwards not backwards?

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 26 January 2019 11:54 AM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Tracker - 2019-01-26 11:36 AM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 11:15 AM

I'd also point out that what Dave is clinging to is a forecast, prepared by experts. Oh dear. Selective forecast picking is even more foolish that believing any one forecast in isolation. As Barry says, there is no natural law that says Catholics vote one way only, and Protestants invariably vote another. Some undoubtedly do, but not all, so that outcome is not a given. One day possibly, but that day is extremely unlikely to be within the Brexit timescale.

I've belatedly been watching Fergal Keane's History of Ireland - and although I'd known Ireland had been treated badly by Britain in the past, starting with the Normans, I'd no idea quite how badly. No wonder the UK isn't exactly flavour of the month for the Irish.


Forecasts by 'experts' - oh dear yes - far too much of that on here!

I have not seen the programme but I do agree about the UK/Eire history. On a similar basis the UK seems to have been able to move on from the Germany and Japan, and France and Spain, episodes in our history, so perhaps the Irish are looking forwards not backwards?

As you say, perhaps. I'm just concerned that the Ulster protestants have only got as far into the future as the Battle of the Boyne!
userTracker
Posted: 26 January 2019 12:01 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Ironic really that formerly independent Eire should now be happy to be dominated by Bruxelles!

But then again the Irish have been pretty successful at milking the EU over the years - and good luck to 'em with that in the future!
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 26 January 2019 12:07 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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I think it's called pragmatism, Rich. Knowing on which side one's bread is buttered. Shame we don't share it!
userTracker
Posted: 26 January 2019 12:15 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Oh I think we do Brian, it was maybe a good thing joining the EEC in 1973, but now the world has moved on and the EU has out lived it's usefulness to us and I believe that the UK can now do better without the EU.
Granted it will take a year or three to realign our economy away from being services and retail based and importing so much and good government (oxymoron?) would certainly help.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 26 January 2019 12:42 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Year or three? !!

All I can say is that our flight to services (80% of our economy) wasn't brought about, or even contributed to by the EU (in fact they have consistently sought to stop us hogging it - so they can have some!), it was an all UK effort, and it will take a decade or three - or more - to break its stranglehold on our economy if we are not to do ourselves irreparable damage in the process. I wish we could, but I just can't see it happening.
userTracker
Posted: 26 January 2019 12:50 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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I think you do the entrepreneurs of the UK a great dis service there Brian.

I have faith that when the opportunities present themselve the UK will quickly take them, if not by British business then by Asian, Chinese and US businesses as the world is a far bigger market than the EU.
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 January 2019 1:08 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-26 10:17 AM

pelmetman - 2019-01-26 9:20 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-25 11:12 PM

Well one things for sure all the Brexit leaders talk about it being easy to find a solution to the Irish border with technology and various other schemes they were telling us many moons ago was clearly complete bollox. If they were so confident in them providing a magical solution why are they so adamant to have the back stop removed or time limited? Surely they will have this marvellous solution within a couple of years or so wont they? Of course they wont.

Unfortunately the EU are not stupid and it was a mistake for the likes of Boris, Smuggy etc to think they were. They even talked about how they would be able to just renege on parts of the withdrawal agreement further down the line and now the EU has it stitched up like a Kipper (oops) and rightly so.


I'm not bothered by the Irish border since I discovered NI Catholics are predicted to out number Protestants by 2021 ...........

So by the time we have reached the end of the transition period I predict NI Catholics will be demanding a referendum ............

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43823506

"The last census in 2011 put the Protestant population at 48%, just 3% more than Catholics at 45%.

More recent figures from 2016 show that among those of working age 44% are now Catholic and 40% Protestant."



Jesus Dave! Stop applying Brexiteer logic! In your desperate attempt to dump those pesky Irish that are spoiling your Brexit you have overlooked a couple of points. Plenty of Catholics north and south have their own reservations, not least the financial cost, adding up to a fraught, complex tangle of identity, ideology and economics. Its not as simple as soon as the day comes where there is one more Catholic in NI they will then have a referendum and become united. Your also forgetting these new Catholics that now outnumber the Protestants will not be voting age for a while Dont forget also that your blessed DUP who are pretty much just keeping your beloved Tory Party in power (The tail wagging the dog) might not be too happy with the idea either. Well furious wont come close.

I dare say it might happen one day but not on the time scale your desperately hoping for.


You obviously missed the bit where it states that in 2016 Catholics of working age outnumbered Protestants .........

Plus they voted to stay in the EU ...........

Kinda makes the border look like its existing on borrowed time in my book ...........





Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-26 1:09 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 January 2019 1:18 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 11:15 AM

I'd also point out that what Dave is clinging to is a forecast, prepared by experts. Oh dear. Selective forecast picking is even more foolish that believing any one forecast in isolation. As Barry says, there is no natural law that says Catholics vote one way only, and Protestants invariably vote another. Some undoubtedly do, but not all, so that outcome is not a given. One day possibly, but that day is extremely unlikely to be within the Brexit timescale.

I've belatedly been watching Fergal Keane's History of Ireland - and although I'd known Ireland had been treated badly by Britain in the past, starting with the Normans, I'd no idea quite how badly. No wonder the UK isn't exactly flavour of the month for the Irish.


No natural law?.......apart from the FACT NI voted to Remain in the EU

Actually it was a prediction from 2011..........which appears to have been proved wrong as the number of Catholics of working age outnumbered Protestants in 2016! .........

It looks to me like that great Remoaner hope of keeping us in the EU via the NI backdoor is a false hope

.............

Which is why the backstop doesn't bother me ...........

Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-26 1:22 PM
userBarryd999
Posted: 26 January 2019 2:06 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Tracker - 2019-01-26 12:15 PM

Oh I think we do Brian, it was maybe a good thing joining the EEC in 1973, but now the world has moved on and the EU has out lived it's usefulness to us and I believe that the UK can now do better without the EU.
Granted it will take a year or three to realign our economy away from being services and retail based and importing so much and good government (oxymoron?) would certainly help.


Blimey Rich, just when I thought we were starting to find common ground!

The world has moved on in as much as its tried to emulate what has happened in the EU and is setting up its own trading blocs and single markets. Nobody is trying to pedal backwards and pull up the drawbridges. Borders are coming down not going back up (Well apart from Trump land). Thats another reason why nobody trades on WTO rules alone.,

You go on to say that Brian is doing entrepreneurs a disservice but Brexit and Brexit nationalism and isolation is doing exactly that by cutting off their chances of successfully trading with the largest trading bloc in the world which is only 22 mlies away and not on the other side of the planet..

Brexiteers talk a good talk about all these wonderful trade deals we can discover and get but firstly there arent any that compare to what we already have and just wait until one of the first conditions of any such deal or trading bloc we join happens to be "Freedom of Movement" and watch the joyful triumphant smiles slip. India for example in earlier talks on such a deal already expressed that this would be a condition of any trade deal.

Edited by Barryd999 2019-01-26 2:07 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 January 2019 2:30 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-26 2:06 PM

Brexiteers talk a good talk about all these wonderful trade deals we can discover and get but firstly there arent any that compare to what we already have and just wait until one of the first conditions of any such deal or trading bloc we join happens to be "Freedom of Movement" and watch the joyful triumphant smiles slip. India for example in earlier talks on such a deal already expressed that this would be a condition of any trade deal.


There's a world of difference between freedom of movement with access to our benefit system, NHS, schools etc etc........and Visa free movement ...........

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 26 January 2019 3:33 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Tracker - 2019-01-26 12:50 PM

I think you do the entrepreneurs of the UK a great dis service there Brian.

I have faith that when the opportunities present themselve the UK will quickly take them, if not by British business then by Asian, Chinese and US businesses as the world is a far bigger market than the EU.

Our productivity is low. It take us longer to make things than it takes others. I read that it takes an average British worker five days to produce what an average French worker produces in four days. Others are even better. If our wonderful entrepreneurs haven't bridged that gap in the past 45 years, how should one judge the chances of them doing so in the next 5 years? It isn't as though the EU has been running, and secretly sabotaging, our industry for that period of time. Why do foreign companies buy up British companies and then, generally, run them more productively than our entrepreneurs? Faith is fine, but only where there are good grounds to support it. I just don't see those grounds.
userTracker
Posted: 26 January 2019 3:35 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-26 2:06 PM
Blimey Rich, just when I thought we were starting to find common ground!


By common ground Barry you do of course mean your own point of view.
userTracker
Posted: 26 January 2019 3:42 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-26 2:06 PM
Blimey Rich, just when I thought we were starting to find common ground!


I expect Shout Bull to say that but I thought you had more savvy!

Edited by Tracker 2019-01-26 3:43 PM
userBarryd999
Posted: 26 January 2019 5:18 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-26 2:30 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-26 2:06 PM

Brexiteers talk a good talk about all these wonderful trade deals we can discover and get but firstly there arent any that compare to what we already have and just wait until one of the first conditions of any such deal or trading bloc we join happens to be "Freedom of Movement" and watch the joyful triumphant smiles slip. India for example in earlier talks on such a deal already expressed that this would be a condition of any trade deal.


There's a world of difference between freedom of movement with access to our benefit system, NHS, schools etc etc........and Visa free movement ...........



I Wasnt aware you were clued up on just what level of free movement our new mystery soon to be announced (not) trade partners would request. Tell us more.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 26 January 2019 5:50 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-26 2:30 PM...………….There's a world of difference between freedom of movement with access to our benefit system, NHS, schools etc etc........and Visa free movement ...........

I assume you meant "visa" (immigration related) rather than "Visa" (credit or debit card related)?

On which assumption, if someone enters the UK under the terms of a free trade agreement's freedom of movement provisions, and then becomes ill, or is made redundant, homeless, or has children that need education, what should happen?

How can one have freedom of movement with no access to "our benefit system, NHS, schools etc etc"? If they were not available, why would our new free trade partner sign off on the deal?
userHarveyHeaven
Posted: 26 January 2019 6:09 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-25 3:36 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-25 11:18 AM

Well currently one of the amendments I believe is to allow the house to vote on a variety of Brexit outcomes to establish which one would have a chance of passing. If we cannot have a second vote then this would seem the logical choice to avoid a no deal Brexit. What is the point of May just coming back with the same old plan which there is no majority for and risking the can just getting kicked down the road until we fall off the no deal cliff which remember all the pollys told us nobody voted for or wants and also that it would never happen? Have we forgotten that?

The house has a duty to ensure we do not suffer a no deal Brexit. Remaining is what I would prefer but if thats not possible then we have to have a solution that a majority of MPs can accept that prevents no deal.

I seem to remember reading a poll the other day that said approximately half of Brexiters had voted for a no-deal Brexit. Whether that is what those polled actually thought at the time, or was just bravado, I have no idea. Wonderful things, referendums, don't you think?


I have also read that many Brexiters believe 'no deal' means keeping things as they are now...maintaing the Status Quo....they have not idea, it seems, WHAT it actually means.
userHarveyHeaven
Posted: 26 January 2019 6:12 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Tracker - 2019-01-22 3:42 PM

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46958560

Just thought I would get this bad news posted before you know who does!



Actually it really IS bad news (mainly because the figures are fraudulent) the ACTUAL unemployment figure is 21%
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 January 2019 8:28 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 26067
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


HarveyHeaven - 2019-01-26 6:12 PM

Tracker - 2019-01-22 3:42 PM

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46958560

Just thought I would get this bad news posted before you know who does!



Actually it really IS bad news (mainly because the figures are fraudulent) the ACTUAL unemployment figure is 21%


Naturally you have a link to a legitimate source back that claim up? .........



userBrian Kirby
Posted: 27 January 2019 12:37 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2019-01-26 8:28 PM
HarveyHeaven - 2019-01-26 6:12 PM
Tracker - 2019-01-22 3:42 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46958560
Just thought I would get this bad news posted before you know who does!

Actually it really IS bad news (mainly because the figures are fraudulent) the ACTUAL unemployment figure is 21%

Naturally you have a link to a legitimate source back that claim up? .........

Why bother with legitimacy? John Major said they were bastards!
userHarveyHeaven
Posted: 27 January 2019 12:47 PM
Subject: RE: Blame it all on Brexit?
 


Pops in from time to time

Posts: 116
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Tracker - 2019-01-22 3:42 PM

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46958560


Just thought I would get this bad news posted before you know who does!


There you go...


https://www.businessinsider.com/unemployment-in-the-uk-is-now-so-low-its-in-danger-of-exposing-the-lie-used-to-create-the-numbers-2017-7?IR=T
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