Mike Parke Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 This topic is indirectly covers on other threads but I wanted a 'sole topic' thead to cover a specific point. As a retired Poice Officer I was disappointed and saddened to hear the B.B.C news report that the Police had handed all convoy drivers a note stating that if the convey moved too slowly or used the middle and lane 3 of the motorway drivers would be liable to be arrested under the Public Order Act for causing alarm, harrassment or distress. Surely the Public Order Act was not designed for such a use and, in any case, I cannot think of anyone who would be 'alarmed ect'. I suggest that it is the Police using 'political correctness' to distance themselves from a popular demo and possibly, worse, a 'senior officer' looking for 'brownie points'! These are, after all, voters exercising their right to protest about something which not only effects their livelyhood but the economy of the country and all residents who have to make use of the internal combustion engine and all it's spin offs i.e. food, shopping ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 As I understand it the protest convoy today was to get a rebate for the haulage industry and would not affect prices to private motorists. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parke Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 That notwithstanding I do not think the Police should abuse the law for its own ends. Further no political party would be able to take the wrath of the general public if a a fuel duty reduction was not across the board. surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Mike Parke - 2008-05-27 11:57 PM That notwithstanding I do not think the Police should abuse the law for its own ends. Further no political party would be able to take the wrath of the general public if a a fuel duty reduction was not across the board. surely. But no-one has yet begun armed insurrection over the massively lower duty on deisel that all farmers are (and have been for decades) only having to pay....... Nor over the massive tax-free mileage allowances that MP's and Ministers award themselves....... I'm afraid it seems in fact that UK Governments have for many decades already been getting away with only giving road fuel duty reductions to certain groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parke Posted May 28, 2008 Author Share Posted May 28, 2008 BGD, Too true but, wth respect, my point is, are the police correct to threat the truckers with a law not designed to cover the action of the convoy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Hi Mike The average "Copper" - I am told by a friend who is in the force - look upon their politically correct brown nosing "senior officers" (and the Chief Constable of North Wales is one that is held up for serious derision!) with disdain. Politically Correct appointments mean that the hierarchy will do whatever the Government tells it too. Even as you say mis-applying a law to a legitimate protest. There are distinct rumblings in all walks of life saying enough is enough. The "Copper at the sharp end" is not happy at what you highlight. And as a retired Officer it seems you reflect the same concern that serving officer’s feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Sorry guys, but you obviously spoke to a whole different bunch of coppers to those in South Wales yesterday. The usual arrogant, uniformed ego machine was in force, however, they are the same police officers who will soon be asking for public support if they win the right to strike, dream on boys. What goes around ................. Just a quick note to those who have complained that the truckers were only protesting to get a rebate for the haulage industry, the ever increasing price of everything in the shops is down mainly to transport costs rising on a daily basis. An essential user rebate (the same as bus companies get) will go a long way to keeping costs down, this will ultimately benefit consumers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 donna miller - 2008-05-28 8:19 AM Sorry guys, but you obviously spoke to a whole different bunch of coppers to those in South Wales yesterday. The usual arrogant, uniformed ego machine was in force, however, they are the same police officers who will soon be asking for public support if they win the right to strike, dream on boys. What goes around ................. Just a quick note to those who have complained that the truckers were only protesting to get a rebate for the haulage industry, the ever increasing price of everything in the shops is down mainly to transport costs rising on a daily basis. An essential user rebate (the same as bus companies get) will go a long way to keeping costs down, this will ultimately benefit consumers. Could somebody please explain exactly what this bus company rebate is, how it operates and how much it is worth? I've been trying to find out by Googling but all I can find is that some local bus journeys are subsidised to keep them operating so that people with no alternative transport aren't left stranded. Is there something else in operation? Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 This cropped up in the pub and I'd like to air it with you guys. The subject of the proposed 2p hike in duty was discussed and my view was well what's the fuss about?? I mean at current pricing it's less than 1%, OK if we were having to pay 60 - 65p a litre then yes you'd be feeling it but at 120p+?? The bar room barristers (us) were in complete agreement on this. Now please don't get me wrong any rise is c**p but let's keep it in proportion, and also, I'm only referring here to my personal domestic use of diesel, i.e nipping to ASDA or shooting off in the van. So anyone with shares in Eddie Stobart can pipe down... Do we honestly think the price is going to fall back to the good old days? (insert your glory days here), mines filling my Dads' car for £5. It's not 5 minutes since the world was going barmy at the prospect of the $100 barrel, it might as well be $200 for what difference it'll make to Brown Gordon and his cronies. Rant over, Martyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 donna miller - 2008-05-28 8:19 AM Sorry guys, but you obviously spoke to a whole different bunch of coppers to those in South Wales yesterday. The usual arrogant, uniformed ego machine was in force, however, they are the same police officers who will soon be asking for public support if they win the right to strike, dream on boys. What goes around ................. Just a quick note to those who have complained that the truckers were only protesting to get a rebate for the haulage industry, the ever increasing price of everything in the shops is down mainly to transport costs rising on a daily basis. An essential user rebate (the same as bus companies get) will go a long way to keeping costs down, this will ultimately benefit consumers. Donna If you are referring to my post above, I was not 'complaining' that the truckers were only protesting to get a rebate for the haulage industry but simply stating it as a fact because I'm sure many people thought it was a protest about fuel prices in general. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Hi Donna Seems that you have issues with the police - no offence meant - just reading what you post. My mate has been in the force for over 30 years and is about to retire thus year. I have only once bumped up against an officious little ***t of a police officer - at all other times they have been great. (tho’ interestingly the incident with the officious officer did take place in Cardiff!) From my perspective I would like to see more on the beat and do not see them as "arrogant, uniformed ego machines" as you indicate. To my mind and in stark contrast to what you say they tend to be the ones that scrape up the mess after an accident or tragedy. Ask any Copper their biggest problem in doing their job well for the public and they will tell you that it is the Politically Correct numpty paperwork etc. And I can certainly vouch for the fact that a lot of them are hacked off with their leadership and more than a bit p*ssed at being denied a reasonable pay award whilst the government of the day reaps a huge windfall tax take by way of fuel duty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Clive, For the record, I do not "have issues with the police" and with all due respect, unless you were in the next truck to me, then you didn't hear the way we were spoken to. Please dont give me all the rubbish about "the majority of police officers" disliking what's happening, It's the attitude of the ones that were sent to "disrupt and disband the trouble makers" (their words, not mine) that I have made comment on. As a retired police officer, you obviously have a biased view and if, as you say, throughout your career you only met ONE officer with a bad attitude, then a very blinkered one as well. In Blackwood, you can't get a copper out to your factory after you've had £100 worth of diesel stolen from your truck for the 4th time in less than a month, when they do you are made to feel like you are wasting their time,and yet there are dozens available for road tax checks or speed traps, do you just think that I am wrong to complain about that as well. I have allways been advised that you reap what you sow, Over the years, I have lost the respect I had for the police in general, so when they ask for public support, they will get as much support as they give us on a daily basis. Reply as you will, the majority of people on here are retired or in a nice cozy employment position, when you are self employed or an employer , it's a different ball game, believe me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Donna Wind yourself back in love please! I am not a Police officer nor have I ever been. And from what you post I am sorry but you clearly do have issues with the police - justifiable ones from what you say. Happily I do not feel that way about them as I do not have - nor have I had any problems (apart from the one in Cardiff!) - And for the record I am self employed and I am an employer! And when we had our window broken and an obvious break in tried - the Police here in Hampshire were round in an hour. When my son was accosted by a drunk driver the Police were very supportive and prosecuted the drunk. Sadly the CPS lost the file and the case collapsed despite the police having clear evidence that this muppet had done this sort of thing before. When there was an accident on the Forest (a fatality and two badly injured) myself and a few others and a Traffic Cop from the M27 worked hard to keep them alive until the ambulance came. Sorry Donna (well I am not really - I am very pleased that...) my experience of the police is very different to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 CliveH - 2008-05-28 6:42 AM The "Copper at the sharp end" is not happy at what you highlight. And as a retired Officer it seems you reflect the same concern that serving officer’s feel. From the above line, I obviously made the mistake of taking it that you were the retired officer. As for the rest of your post, I am not your LOVE, so please dont patronise me. Time and time again, lorry drivers, like myself have made protest (whether successful or not) for the benefit of ourselves and others, and each and every time we have to put up with cynics, critics and people accusing us of having issues and attitudes toward the poor policemen, maybe if they got off their #rse and into their motorhome or car, and joined these protests, you would get a clearer view of the proceedings after the tv cameras are turned off. As I said earlier, you were not there, so are not in a position to pass the type of comment you made. You are hardly likely to see the side of the police force that we have, because you are obviously happy for others to do the protesting for you, and even happier to accept any favourable outcome, all without the slightest inconvenience I said many of the people on here were not self employed, I made no reference to you whatsoever, so why the need to point out that you are. Now run along little boy. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Donna dear lady You need patronising You make that many wrong assumptions # all the best love Wrong time of the month to talk to you obviously :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 CliveH - 2008-05-28 7:00 PM Donna dear lady You need patronising You make that many wrong assumptions # all the best love Wrong time of the month to talk to you obviously :D Ars#hole Did you learn that last comment at "how to be a real man " night school classes, did they not tell you that women just use that excuse to stop pratts bugging them all the time, it gives us at least a week away from your constant whineing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Just to bring things back on track. Donna, this morning you said "An essential user rebate (the same as bus companies get) will go a long way to keeping costs down, this will ultimately benefit consumers." In response I asked: "Could somebody please explain exactly what this bus company rebate is, how it operates and how much it is worth? I've been trying to find out by Googling but all I can find is that some local bus journeys are subsidised to keep them operating so that people with no alternative transport aren't left stranded. Is there something else in operation?" Perhaps you missed my post with everything else going on. I've tried a bit more digging and all I can find is the "Bus Service Operators Grant" which is confined to community transport type buses and local bus journeys (as opposed to long distance coach journeys). i.e. it is a community support initiative to ensure that services are provided which would not otherwise be provided, which seems rather different from the impression of general subsidy which Transaction-2007 seems to be promoting. Does anyone know if there is any other subsidy which I haven't found? Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 If I remember right, bus companies receive a rebate of up to 25p per litre on the fuel they purchase, I don't know if this is applicable to private companies or just the municipal fleets. There was mention of it on the national news yesterday and it was refered to as an essential user rebate. Other than that, I really don't know anything more. Anybody can bunker fuel, as long as the relevant storage licence is obtained, and significant savings can be realised by bulk buying, also various companies offer rebates on fuel by offering fuel cards which can be used at various filling stations. The price of the fuel is set each day and can be checked online, average prices seem to be about £1.08 per litre, however vat has to be added so the saving isn't as large as first appears, also not every garage will accept the fuel cards so you often have to travel a good distance to make a saving. Most of these fuel agencies claim that if your monthly fuel bill is £500 or over, you should make a saving. Sorry if this doesn't answer your question fully, but i've tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Graham, try this web page, if you go down the page, it explains a bit of what you were trying to find out, http://www.foe.co.uk/pubsinfo/briefings/html/20001102081826.html Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Thanks for the answers Donna. donna miller - 2008-05-28 8:04 PM Graham, try this web page, if you go down the page, it explains a bit of what you were trying to find out, http://www.foe.co.uk/pubsinfo/briefings/html/20001102081826.html Hope that helps Well, that certainly seems to show that you can prove anything with statistics :-D donna miller - 2008-05-28 7:54 PM If I remember right, bus companies receive a rebate of up to 25p per litre on the fuel they purchase, I don't know if this is applicable to private companies or just the municipal fleets. There was mention of it on the national news yesterday and it was refered to as an essential user rebate. Yes, I think that is the BSOG which I found. The mention on the news by Transaction 2007 seemed to give the impression that it was available to all bus companies for all journeys and applied to long distance (e.g. National Bus type or cross channel) services as well as local ones. It seems to me that a more analogous subsidy would be one to local delivery vans (e.g. Tesco, Asda) as an alternative to everyone driving to the supermarkets themselves, rather than a subsidy to the haulage industry as a whole - so the Transaction 2007 argument doesn't really hold water. donna miller - 2008-05-28 7:54 PM Other than that, I really don't know anything more. Anybody can bunker fuel, as long as the relevant storage licence is obtained, and significant savings can be realised by bulk buying, also various companies offer rebates on fuel by offering fuel cards which can be used at various filling stations. The price of the fuel is set each day and can be checked online, average prices seem to be about £1.08 per litre, however vat has to be added so the saving isn't as large as first appears, also not every garage will accept the fuel cards so you often have to travel a good distance to make a saving. Most of these fuel agencies claim that if your monthly fuel bill is £500 or over, you should make a saving. I should expect that any haulage company with half decent management would be taking advantage of such schemes already :-D. Same as any business buying supplies in bulk I suppose. Thanks again. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 CliveH - 2008-05-28 7:00 PM Donna dear lady You need patronising You make that many wrong assumptions # all the best love Wrong time of the month to talk to you obviously :DPatronising and utterly insulting post from you Clive and I am very surprised to say the least. Obviously the wrong time of the month for you. >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parke Posted May 31, 2008 Author Share Posted May 31, 2008 Gosh! I had no idea this would be such a 'can of worms'. All I was saying was that I felt sad the 'Old Bill' appeared to be resorting to the wrong legislation and people end up having a 'e-fight'!! Sorry I ever started the thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J9withdogs Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Worse things happen at sea, Mike. Have a good night! (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Hi Peter I replied in the same vein as Donna who said:- ".......because you are obviously happy for others to do the protesting for you, and even happier to accept any favourable outcome, all without the slightest inconvenience I said many of the people on here were not self employed, I made no reference to you whatsoever, so why the need to point out that you are. Now run along little boy. " Edited by Donna miller 2008-05-28 6:50 PM ..and kind of hoped it was tongue in cheek. I call blokes "Mate" when talking to them and ladies "Love" - never had a problem and it is not being patronising - as it would not be appropriate to refer to Donna as "Mate" - so if there is a problem with the affectionate term "Love" for females and "Mate" for males then it is born of PC numptyness - something I do not subscribe too. Clearly it was not taken that way. Donna also assumed I was a retired Police Officer with a "blinkered" view:- "As a retired police officer, you obviously have a biased view and if, as you say, throughout your career you only met ONE officer with a bad attitude, then a very blinkered one as well." and there is a further assumption from Donna that I and most of the people on here are in cosy retired or employed positions:- "Reply as you will, the majority of people on here are retired or in a nice cozy employment position, when you are self employed or an employer , it's a different ball game, believe me." I am self employed and run my own business. So once again the assumptions are wrong and I would say these false assumptions are what is patronising. As is the comment about my being a "little boy" I am 56 and it was a long time ago that anyone could reasonably describe me as little!" (lol) I had hoped that the :D emotican would indicate my last comment was made in the same vein as Donna's. But clearly it did not as she simply then described me as an "asshole" Well that is as maybe - we all have our opinions. My opinion on this is that my posts clearly state that I am in full support of the Fuel Protest and am recommending that we all do our bit. Sadly Donna seemed to read what she wanted to read not what was there because I stated that from my experience the police are actually in tacit support of the action due to their 2.5% pay award being withdrawn. If any ladies were offended by the "time of the month" comment then on reflection - I apologise. But the point I am making re the misinterpretation of what is written is still valid. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Mike Parke - 2008-05-27 11:28 PM This topic is indirectly covers on other threads but I wanted a 'sole topic' thead to cover a specific point. As a retired Poice Officer I was disappointed and saddened to hear the B.B.C news report that the Police had handed all convoy drivers a note stating that if the convey moved too slowly or used the middle and lane 3 of the motorway drivers would be liable to be arrested under the Public Order Act for causing alarm, harrassment or distress. Surely the Public Order Act was not designed for such a use and, in any case, I cannot think of anyone who would be 'alarmed ect'. The only thing they could get them for is Highway Obstruction . You are quite correct Mike If the lorry drivers had any sense they would say if anyone of us gets arrested for Higway Obstruction we wil take our keys out of these 1500 lorrys and you will have to knick the lot of us . As to who is alarmed and who was distressed that would be strange as most of the public would be beeping as they went past in support . pblic order act regularly gets misused younf Police Officers dont know they difference they were brought up with it and dont realise what it means Sec4 & Sec 5 alarm & distress . Like to see them getting a conviction at court ...If they arrested one person I would put it to the court that the Police caused the obstruction ,all of the lorys were moving until the Police stopped them ...What a load of tosh ...... Still you know that dont you all. I suggest that it is the Police using 'political correctness' to distance themselves from a popular demo and possibly, worse, a 'senior officer' looking for 'brownie points'! These are, after all, voters exercising their right to protest about something which not only effects their livelyhood but the economy of the country and all residents who have to make use of the internal combustion engine and all it's spin offs i.e. food, shopping ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.