Violet1956 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 I think the call from some quarters to get TM to commit to writing off “no deal” as an option is ridiculous. She can’t keep that off the table when negotiating with the EU. It’s the best leverage she has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-01-17 1:01 PM I think the call from some quarters to get TM to commit to writing off “no deal” as an option is ridiculous. She can’t keep that off the table when negotiating with the EU. It’s the best leverage she has. One of the reasons that I don't think Jeremy Corbyn will ever make a good leader is the fact that he has just spent most of his career opposing everyone else, and complaining. Nothing wrong with that of course, but he has now been asked to help to contribute something useful and it has scared the life out of him - so he has immediately set up conditions ( which he KNOWS will not be agreed to ) before he will join in. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Absolutely. If Corbyn put as much effort into working with HMG to show a national unity as per the referendum result to secure a sensible deal with the EU instead of perversely following any excuse to keep ranting on for an election that is not going to happen the country might not now be in this ridiculous and divisive position. He is a self obsessed clown putting his own interests before those of the nation and unfit to be an MP let alone PM and however bad the Tory government is, a Labour government would soon make us all realise just how well off we were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Mans a buffoon ... Happy to meet terrorists without making demands yet wont meet Her Majesty till no deal is done with ... Another Jeremy own goal ... Bet TM is laughing her bol@x off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Tracker - 2019-01-17 1:51 PM He is a self obsessed clown putting his own interests before those of the nation...………………. You might not agree with his policies - but If what you say is true he wouldn't be an MP. He wouldn't have chosen a job representing other people. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-01-17 1:01 PM I think the call from some quarters to get TM to commit to writing off “no deal” as an option is ridiculous. She can’t keep that off the table when negotiating with the EU. It’s the best leverage she has. Negotiations is over though. The EU will only reopen negotiations if its for something completely different which means dropping all or some of the red lines and only if it then is to seek a much softer Brexit which is basically Norway Plus which is SM and CU and if thats the case we may as well remain. The simplest solution is one that was cited on Politics Live today from some group of MPs that had met to discuss a way forward (Cant remember who it was) but in order to get Mays Plan B deal approved they think the only way would be a caveat of it being approved only if it is handed to the people to vote on so effectively breaking the inevitable impasse. So it will be Mays plan B deal or remain in the deal we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 I'm coming to the conclusion that Brexit is impossible in any form that involves a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Not many choices there. Either Ireland has to be unified, or we should need to accept free movement, the single market, and the customs union, which together mean we should pay into the EU while having to accept the ECJ, the standards and regulations. In fact everything except, so far as I can see, being able to elect MEPs and contribute to the standards and regulations negotiations. Vassal state, or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 No deal shouldn't even be on the table at all. Brexit has done more than enough damage already and 'no deal' is just utter mindless insanity. May's 'deal' (fwiw) or withdrawal of article 50 enabling a swift return to normality and stability with the EU. After that UK would need to buckle down, quit cherry picking, and start making some serious commitments instead of how we've previously been behaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-01-17 4:19 PM I'm coming to the conclusion that Brexit is impossible in any form that involves a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Not many choices there. Either Ireland has to be unified, or we should need to accept free movement, the single market, and the customs union, which together mean we should pay into the EU while having to accept the ECJ, the standards and regulations. In fact everything except, so far as I can see, being able to elect MEPs and contribute to the standards and regulations negotiations. Vassal state, or what? Pariah state. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-01-17 4:45 PM No deal shouldn't even be on the table at all. Brexit has done more than enough damage already and 'no deal' is just utter mindless insanity. May's 'deal' (fwiw) or withdrawal of article 50 enabling a swift return to normality and stability with the EU. After that UK would need to buckle down, quit cherry picking, and start making some serious commitments instead of how we've previously been behaving. 500 MPs shouldn't have voted to proceed with article 50 should they ... Maybe like us leave voters they didn't know what they were voting for :-) :-) :-) :-) ... Quite a lot of Jeremys Labour MPs voted for it , even hate preacher McDonnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 malc d - 2019-01-17 2:22 PM Tracker - 2019-01-17 1:51 PM He is a self obsessed clown putting his own interests before those of the nation...………………. You might not agree with his policies - but If what you say is true he wouldn't be an MP. He wouldn't have chosen a job representing other people. :-| It's not just his publicised policies, it's his hidden agenda, his past activities, his demeanor both unofficial and in the House. He is very dangerous in his pretense to be fair and even handed which I suspect would soon change if he ever got into power. He is power mad and loves the control over other people's lives which has little to do with representation. If he wanted to represent people he would not need to be party leader to do that. I consider him to be a very dangerous person for the future of the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 antony1969 - 2019-01-17 5:05 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-17 4:45 PM No deal shouldn't even be on the table at all. Brexit has done more than enough damage already and 'no deal' is just utter mindless insanity. May's 'deal' (fwiw) or withdrawal of article 50 enabling a swift return to normality and stability with the EU. After that UK would need to buckle down, quit cherry picking, and start making some serious commitments instead of how we've previously been behaving. 500 MPs shouldn't have voted to proceed with article 50 should they ... Maybe like us leave voters they didn't know what they were voting for :-) :-) :-) :-) ... Quite a lot of Jeremys Labour MPs voted for it , even hate preacher McDonnell They had little choice at that time though did they? The procedure had to go ahead but what has happened since has pretty much proved how impossible Brexit is and what a disaster it will be if we proceed. They at least had to try and make it work but its clear they have failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-01-17 5:29 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-17 5:05 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-17 4:45 PM No deal shouldn't even be on the table at all. Brexit has done more than enough damage already and 'no deal' is just utter mindless insanity. May's 'deal' (fwiw) or withdrawal of article 50 enabling a swift return to normality and stability with the EU. After that UK would need to buckle down, quit cherry picking, and start making some serious commitments instead of how we've previously been behaving. 500 MPs shouldn't have voted to proceed with article 50 should they ... Maybe like us leave voters they didn't know what they were voting for :-) :-) :-) :-) ... Quite a lot of Jeremys Labour MPs voted for it , even hate preacher McDonnell They had little choice at that time though did they? The procedure had to go ahead but what has happened since has pretty much proved how impossible Brexit is and what a disaster it will be if we proceed. They at least had to try and make it work but its clear they have failed. Me no understand ... Why didn't they have a choice ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 antony1969 - 2019-01-17 5:32 PM Barryd999 - 2019-01-17 5:29 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-17 5:05 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-17 4:45 PM No deal shouldn't even be on the table at all. Brexit has done more than enough damage already and 'no deal' is just utter mindless insanity. May's 'deal' (fwiw) or withdrawal of article 50 enabling a swift return to normality and stability with the EU. After that UK would need to buckle down, quit cherry picking, and start making some serious commitments instead of how we've previously been behaving. 500 MPs shouldn't have voted to proceed with article 50 should they ... Maybe like us leave voters they didn't know what they were voting for :-) :-) :-) :-) ... Quite a lot of Jeremys Labour MPs voted for it , even hate preacher McDonnell They had little choice at that time though did they? The procedure had to go ahead but what has happened since has pretty much proved how impossible Brexit is and what a disaster it will be if we proceed. They at least had to try and make it work but its clear they have failed. Me no understand ... Why didn't they have a choice ??? Well at that stage we had voted to leave the EU so despite what many of those MP's might have wanted they felt it the democratic thing to do to start the procedure for leaving and then hopefully negotiate what was promised in the referendum which was supposed to be the easiest deal in history. Well they have spectacularly failed at that and at that time nobody was talking about no deal or crashing out so now we have to figure a way out of this mess and this Impasse. As we have witnessed over the last two and a half years though there is never going to be agreement in government or parliament so what do we do? The only sensible option which is still risky is to pass Mays plan B deal through parliament only if on the condition that it is past to the people to vote on as to whether they accept her deal or remaining in the EU. Whatever happens now though there is going to be a lot of people seriously p*ssed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-01-17 6:42 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-17 5:32 PM Barryd999 - 2019-01-17 5:29 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-17 5:05 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-17 4:45 PM No deal shouldn't even be on the table at all. Brexit has done more than enough damage already and 'no deal' is just utter mindless insanity. May's 'deal' (fwiw) or withdrawal of article 50 enabling a swift return to normality and stability with the EU. After that UK would need to buckle down, quit cherry picking, and start making some serious commitments instead of how we've previously been behaving. 500 MPs shouldn't have voted to proceed with article 50 should they ... Maybe like us leave voters they didn't know what they were voting for :-) :-) :-) :-) ... Quite a lot of Jeremys Labour MPs voted for it , even hate preacher McDonnell They had little choice at that time though did they? The procedure had to go ahead but what has happened since has pretty much proved how impossible Brexit is and what a disaster it will be if we proceed. They at least had to try and make it work but its clear they have failed. Me no understand ... Why didn't they have a choice ??? Well at that stage we had voted to leave the EU so despite what many of those MP's might have wanted they felt it the democratic thing to do to start the procedure for leaving and then hopefully negotiate what was promised in the referendum which was supposed to be the easiest deal in history. Well they have spectacularly failed at that and at that time nobody was talking about no deal or crashing out so now we have to figure a way out of this mess and this Impasse. As we have witnessed over the last two and a half years though there is never going to be agreement in government or parliament so what do we do? The only sensible option which is still risky is to pass Mays plan B deal through parliament only if on the condition that it is past to the people to vote on as to whether they accept her deal or remaining in the EU. Whatever happens now though there is going to be a lot of people seriously p*ssed off. So your saying our MPs were living off hope ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Not understanding why anti-Semite Jeremy is struggling with what nearly 500 MPs voted for ... ... Yuk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 antony1969 - 2019-01-17 7:12 PM Barryd999 - 2019-01-17 6:42 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-17 5:32 PM Barryd999 - 2019-01-17 5:29 PM antony1969 - 2019-01-17 5:05 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-17 4:45 PM No deal shouldn't even be on the table at all. Brexit has done more than enough damage already and 'no deal' is just utter mindless insanity. May's 'deal' (fwiw) or withdrawal of article 50 enabling a swift return to normality and stability with the EU. After that UK would need to buckle down, quit cherry picking, and start making some serious commitments instead of how we've previously been behaving. 500 MPs shouldn't have voted to proceed with article 50 should they ... Maybe like us leave voters they didn't know what they were voting for :-) :-) :-) :-) ... Quite a lot of Jeremys Labour MPs voted for it , even hate preacher McDonnell They had little choice at that time though did they? The procedure had to go ahead but what has happened since has pretty much proved how impossible Brexit is and what a disaster it will be if we proceed. They at least had to try and make it work but its clear they have failed. Me no understand ... Why didn't they have a choice ??? Well at that stage we had voted to leave the EU so despite what many of those MP's might have wanted they felt it the democratic thing to do to start the procedure for leaving and then hopefully negotiate what was promised in the referendum which was supposed to be the easiest deal in history. Well they have spectacularly failed at that and at that time nobody was talking about no deal or crashing out so now we have to figure a way out of this mess and this Impasse. As we have witnessed over the last two and a half years though there is never going to be agreement in government or parliament so what do we do? The only sensible option which is still risky is to pass Mays plan B deal through parliament only if on the condition that it is past to the people to vote on as to whether they accept her deal or remaining in the EU. Whatever happens now though there is going to be a lot of people seriously p*ssed off. So your saying our MPs were living off hope ??? Probably following the party line, entering into the procedure in good faith, hoping perhaps that they could prove down the line that it was a fecking stupid move and try and get a second vote, I dunno. A whole lot of reasons just like many voted for a whole load of different types of Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-01-17 4:19 PM I'm coming to the conclusion that Brexit is impossible in any form that involves a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Not many choices there. Either Ireland has to be unified, or we should need to accept free movement, the single market, and the customs union, which together mean we should pay into the EU while having to accept the ECJ, the standards and regulations. In fact everything except, so far as I can see, being able to elect MEPs and contribute to the standards and regulations negotiations. Vassal state, or what? Remind us of when there was ever a customs border between Ireland and NI? ;-) .......... Never .......So there's no reason for one now *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-01-17 10:35 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-17 4:19 PM I'm coming to the conclusion that Brexit is impossible in any form that involves a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Not many choices there. Either Ireland has to be unified, or we should need to accept free movement, the single market, and the customs union, which together mean we should pay into the EU while having to accept the ECJ, the standards and regulations. In fact everything except, so far as I can see, being able to elect MEPs and contribute to the standards and regulations negotiations. Vassal state, or what? Remind us of when there was ever a customs border between Ireland and NI? ;-) .......... Never .......So there's no reason for one now *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-01-17 10:35 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-17 4:19 PM I'm coming to the conclusion that Brexit is impossible in any form that involves a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Not many choices there. Either Ireland has to be unified, or we should need to accept free movement, the single market, and the customs union, which together mean we should pay into the EU while having to accept the ECJ, the standards and regulations. In fact everything except, so far as I can see, being able to elect MEPs and contribute to the standards and regulations negotiations. Vassal state, or what? Remind us of when there was ever a customs border between Ireland and NI? ;-) .......... Never .......So there's no reason for one now *-) ......... True, but you still don't get it, do you? "Now", we are still in the EU. If we leave we won't be in the EU, so goods passing between the UK and Ireland will be subject to the present EU external border controls. In addition, so will people. Common Travel Area, Belfast Agreement? You can have the present arrangements, or the EU arrangements, but not both. Go read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Hi, If it was easy for the PM to get full party support in the vote of no confidence in her govt. due to the fear of it bringing on a General Election, why does she simply not threaten calling a General Election if tories don't support her deal. MP's obviously think more of their own position than they do of you or I and the country. cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-01-18 12:27 AM pelmetman - 2019-01-17 10:35 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-17 4:19 PM I'm coming to the conclusion that Brexit is impossible in any form that involves a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Not many choices there. Either Ireland has to be unified, or we should need to accept free movement, the single market, and the customs union, which together mean we should pay into the EU while having to accept the ECJ, the standards and regulations. In fact everything except, so far as I can see, being able to elect MEPs and contribute to the standards and regulations negotiations. Vassal state, or what? Remind us of when there was ever a customs border between Ireland and NI? ;-) .......... Never .......So there's no reason for one now *-) ......... Nice pictures Bullet ;-) ...........You do know how many roads cross into NI from Ireland don't you?.......270 :D ....... BTW your bottom picture is obviously a stunt *-) .........Look at the cars ;-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-01-18 8:32 AM pelmetman - 2019-01-17 10:35 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-17 4:19 PM I'm coming to the conclusion that Brexit is impossible in any form that involves a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Not many choices there. Either Ireland has to be unified, or we should need to accept free movement, the single market, and the customs union, which together mean we should pay into the EU while having to accept the ECJ, the standards and regulations. In fact everything except, so far as I can see, being able to elect MEPs and contribute to the standards and regulations negotiations. Vassal state, or what? Remind us of when there was ever a customs border between Ireland and NI? ;-) .......... Never .......So there's no reason for one now *-) ......... True, but you still don't get it, do you? "Now", we are still in the EU. If we leave we won't be in the EU, so goods passing between the UK and Ireland will be subject to the present EU external border controls. In addition, so will people. Common Travel Area, Belfast Agreement? You can have the present arrangements, or the EU arrangements, but not both. Go read. You still don't get it either ;-) ........... As a Sovereign nation again we can do what we like B-) .......... If the Irish and EU wish to set up a border that's their problem >:-) ....... Some of us have a backbone and wont allow ourselves to be blackmailed :-| ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-01-18 9:17 AM Bulletguy - 2019-01-18 12:27 AM pelmetman - 2019-01-17 10:35 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-17 4:19 PM I'm coming to the conclusion that Brexit is impossible in any form that involves a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Not many choices there. Either Ireland has to be unified, or we should need to accept free movement, the single market, and the customs union, which together mean we should pay into the EU while having to accept the ECJ, the standards and regulations. In fact everything except, so far as I can see, being able to elect MEPs and contribute to the standards and regulations negotiations. Vassal state, or what? Remind us of when there was ever a customs border between Ireland and NI? ;-) .......... Never .......So there's no reason for one now *-) ......... Nice pictures Bullet ;-) ...........You do know how many roads cross into NI from Ireland don't you?.......270 :D ....... BTW your bottom picture is obviously a stunt *-) .........Look at the cars ;-) ........... Possibly.....did Strabane border control exist? A yes/no answer please.....i don't want any deflection waffle.....either it did "YES", or you believe it didn't in which case answer "no". Here is a short forum thread from 2007 with a photo of another border post (it's worth reading the posts though i doubt you will); https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14756 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-01-18 9:24 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-18 8:32 AM pelmetman - 2019-01-17 10:35 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-01-17 4:19 PM I'm coming to the conclusion that Brexit is impossible in any form that involves a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Not many choices there. Either Ireland has to be unified, or we should need to accept free movement, the single market, and the customs union, which together mean we should pay into the EU while having to accept the ECJ, the standards and regulations. In fact everything except, so far as I can see, being able to elect MEPs and contribute to the standards and regulations negotiations. Vassal state, or what? Remind us of when there was ever a customs border between Ireland and NI? ;-) .......... Never .......So there's no reason for one now *-) ......... True, but you still don't get it, do you? "Now", we are still in the EU. If we leave we won't be in the EU, so goods passing between the UK and Ireland will be subject to the present EU external border controls. In addition, so will people. Common Travel Area, Belfast Agreement? You can have the present arrangements, or the EU arrangements, but not both. Go read. You still don't get it either ;-) ........... As a Sovereign nation again we can do what we like B-) .......... If the Irish and EU wish to set up a border that's their problem >:-) ....... Some of us have a backbone and wont allow ourselves to be blackmailed :-| ........ Jeez......Little Englander mentality who preaches about 'sovereignty' and believes 'we can do what we like'..........whilst sitting in a van on a campsite in Spain where he runs off to spend half the year!! *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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