Bulletguy Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Cost the average household £870 a year and the nation £450 million a week. No doubt the usual suspects will be along to dismiss it as 'project fear' or more 'doomster' stuff....but this guy is from the Torygraph. https://cepr.org/active/publications/discussion_papers/dp.php?dpno=14176 and it's hemorrhaging at a phenomenal rate; https://costofbrexit.netlify.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 No wonder BoJo wouldn't answer unscripted questions on TV Best they can do is say the falling pound helps exporters. But if a falling currency was all it took Venezuela would be a stronger economy than Switzerland. We can't compete with (other) third world countries on cheapness because their cost base is lower. We need to compete on Quality and Innovation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 25, 2020 Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 John52 - 2020-01-25 6:33 AM No wonder BoJo wouldn't answer unscripted questions on TV Best they can do is say the falling pound helps exporters. But if a falling currency was all it took Venezuela would be a stronger economy than Switzerland. We can't compete with (other) third world countries on cheapness because their cost base is lower. We need to compete on Quality and Innovation. The only party leader to have run sh1t scared of facing Andrew Neil. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-01-25 4:36 PM John52 - 2020-01-25 6:33 AM No wonder BoJo wouldn't answer unscripted questions on TV Best they can do is say the falling pound helps exporters. But if a falling currency was all it took Venezuela would be a stronger economy than Switzerland. We can't compete with (other) third world countries on cheapness because their cost base is lower. We need to compete on Quality and Innovation. The only party leader to have run sh1t scared of facing Andrew Neil. (lol) Haha! Yep, it was a cunning move by Corbyn to be interviewed by a man whose only objective is to drag up every mistake you've ever made. That'll teach Boris a lesson won't it? It's clear that dodging Neil really harmed Boris's election prospects. The silly man only got an eighty seat majority. Heehee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-25 3:44 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-25 4:36 PM John52 - 2020-01-25 6:33 AM No wonder BoJo wouldn't answer unscripted questions on TV Best they can do is say the falling pound helps exporters. But if a falling currency was all it took Venezuela would be a stronger economy than Switzerland. We can't compete with (other) third world countries on cheapness because their cost base is lower. We need to compete on Quality and Innovation. The only party leader to have run sh1t scared of facing Andrew Neil. (lol) Haha! Yep, it was a cunning move by Corbyn to be interviewed by a man whose only objective is to drag up every mistake you've ever made. That'll teach Boris a lesson won't it? It's clear that dodging Neil really harmed Boris's election prospects. The silly man only got an eighty seat majority. Heehee! True but I guess the other leaders were just not savvy enough to think that Johnson would stoop so low to win an election basically by hiding away. Shameful really. Didnt he also hide in a fridge? Johnson never won the election I think Corbyn and Brexit won it for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-01-25 6:52 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-25 3:44 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-25 4:36 PM John52 - 2020-01-25 6:33 AM No wonder BoJo wouldn't answer unscripted questions on TV Best they can do is say the falling pound helps exporters. But if a falling currency was all it took Venezuela would be a stronger economy than Switzerland. We can't compete with (other) third world countries on cheapness because their cost base is lower. We need to compete on Quality and Innovation. The only party leader to have run sh1t scared of facing Andrew Neil. (lol) Haha! Yep, it was a cunning move by Corbyn to be interviewed by a man whose only objective is to drag up every mistake you've ever made. That'll teach Boris a lesson won't it? It's clear that dodging Neil really harmed Boris's election prospects. The silly man only got an eighty seat majority. Heehee! True but I guess the other leaders were just not savvy enough to think that Johnson would stoop so low to win an election basically by hiding away. Shameful really. Didnt he also hide in a fridge? Johnson never won the election I think Corbyn and Brexit won it for him. Crikey ... OAL political expert Barry strikes again ... Boris Johnson condemns Labour to its worst defeat in living memory because Boris was "hiding away" and the public gave him an 80 seat majority because of that ??? ... Go figure ... Hopefully the whiskey might be an excuse for the stupidity , prolly not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 25, 2020 Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-01-25 6:52 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-25 3:44 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-25 4:36 PM John52 - 2020-01-25 6:33 AM No wonder BoJo wouldn't answer unscripted questions on TV Best they can do is say the falling pound helps exporters. But if a falling currency was all it took Venezuela would be a stronger economy than Switzerland. We can't compete with (other) third world countries on cheapness because their cost base is lower. We need to compete on Quality and Innovation. The only party leader to have run sh1t scared of facing Andrew Neil. (lol) Haha! Yep, it was a cunning move by Corbyn to be interviewed by a man whose only objective is to drag up every mistake you've ever made. That'll teach Boris a lesson won't it? It's clear that dodging Neil really harmed Boris's election prospects. The silly man only got an eighty seat majority. Heehee! True but I guess the other leaders were just not savvy enough to think that Johnson would stoop so low to win an election basically by hiding away. Shameful really. Didnt he also hide in a fridge? Johnson never won the election I think Corbyn and Brexit won it for him. Yeah he was pretending to be a milkman....man of da peepol and all that sh1te but ran off from an ITV news correspondent. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-01-25 8:42 PM Barryd999 - 2020-01-25 6:52 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-25 3:44 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-25 4:36 PM John52 - 2020-01-25 6:33 AM No wonder BoJo wouldn't answer unscripted questions on TV Best they can do is say the falling pound helps exporters. But if a falling currency was all it took Venezuela would be a stronger economy than Switzerland. We can't compete with (other) third world countries on cheapness because their cost base is lower. We need to compete on Quality and Innovation. The only party leader to have run sh1t scared of facing Andrew Neil. (lol) Haha! Yep, it was a cunning move by Corbyn to be interviewed by a man whose only objective is to drag up every mistake you've ever made. That'll teach Boris a lesson won't it? It's clear that dodging Neil really harmed Boris's election prospects. The silly man only got an eighty seat majority. Heehee! True but I guess the other leaders were just not savvy enough to think that Johnson would stoop so low to win an election basically by hiding away. Shameful really. Didnt he also hide in a fridge? Johnson never won the election I think Corbyn and Brexit won it for him. Yeah he was pretending to be a milkman....man of da peepol and all that sh1te but ran off from an ITV news correspondent. *-) "milkman" or not your team still got minced ... ... Worst result since 1935 even after Ernie ... Chuckle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-01-25 7:08 PM Barryd999 - 2020-01-25 6:52 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-25 3:44 PM Bulletguy - 2020-01-25 4:36 PM John52 - 2020-01-25 6:33 AM No wonder BoJo wouldn't answer unscripted questions on TV Best they can do is say the falling pound helps exporters. But if a falling currency was all it took Venezuela would be a stronger economy than Switzerland. We can't compete with (other) third world countries on cheapness because their cost base is lower. We need to compete on Quality and Innovation. The only party leader to have run sh1t scared of facing Andrew Neil. (lol) Haha! Yep, it was a cunning move by Corbyn to be interviewed by a man whose only objective is to drag up every mistake you've ever made. That'll teach Boris a lesson won't it? It's clear that dodging Neil really harmed Boris's election prospects. The silly man only got an eighty seat majority. Heehee! True but I guess the other leaders were just not savvy enough to think that Johnson would stoop so low to win an election basically by hiding away. Shameful really. Didnt he also hide in a fridge? Johnson never won the election I think Corbyn and Brexit won it for him. Crikey ... OAL political expert Barry strikes again ... Boris Johnson condemns Labour to its worst defeat in living memory because Boris was "hiding away" and the public gave him an 80 seat majority because of that ??? ... Go figure ... Hopefully the whiskey might be an excuse for the stupidity , prolly not Well what other reason was there for his victory? Did he fight a brilliant campaign? Did he come across as extremely electable and statesmen like? How did he do in the interviews he took part in (Well the ones he wasnt too cowardly to run away from)? He was totally sh1te. Of course Corbyn and Brexit won it for him. He may have got an 80 seat majority thanks to our FPTP system but the majority of the electorate didnt vote for him. The whole country hasnt suddenly gone Johnson and Tory crazy. It was clear for some time oop North if you had got involved in the campaign at all that many were just totally focused on getting their Brexit win over the line and of course Corbyn became as popular as a fart in a space suit but lets not pretend that Johnson is some kind of Churchillian saviour, He's still a self centred narcissistic serial lying giant blonde cock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-01-25 7:52 PM True but I guess the other leaders were just not savvy enough ................. First sensible thing you've said. As opposed to Boris whose policies and message proved him to be very savvy. Like when he won the Labour-London mayoralty, twice. Like when he became party leader, like when he cornered Corbyn into forcing a general election, which he then won with the biggest majority in decades. Like when he got a deal from the EU when you and others said he had no chance. Yep, real loser is our Boris! Clever generals know when to fight and when to stay out of a fight. Boris is clever. Thicko Corbyn is thick, which is why he let Andrew Neil skewer and embarrass him. I don't know about you, but over the next few years I want a clever and intelligent general in charge and not some poorly-educated, anti-semitic Marxist who's too dim to learn from history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-01-26 12:09 PM He's still a self centred narcissistic serial lying giant blonde cock. Do you remember his lies? Terrible: There were no seats on that train, which is why I'm sitting on the floor; OK, I endorsed that mural with the hook-nosed Jews playing monopoly on the backs of the oppressed workers, but I didn't actually look at it. I did not call Theresa May 'that stupid woman'. Yes you did you clown, it's on YouTube and obvious. I did attend attend a wreath-laying ceremony at the graves of terrorists who castrated and murdered Israeli athletes, but I don't think I took part. I do watch the Queen's speech sometimes, as it's on in the morning. 95% of people will not pay any more tax under Labour, er, yes, all those receiving the marriage allowance will, you liar. “I never had any higher education of any sort,” . Yes you did you liar, you dropped out of North London Polytechnic after a year. Even a second-rate poly was too hard for the Right Honourable Jeremy Corbyn MP, 2 A Levels (Grade E) Two General Elections (Failed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 11:31 AM Barryd999 - 2020-01-26 12:09 PM He's still a self centred narcissistic serial lying giant blonde cock. Do you remember his lies? Terrible: There were no seats on that train, which is why I'm sitting on the floor; OK, I endorsed that mural with the hook-nosed Jews playing monopoly on the backs of the oppressed workers, but I didn't actually look at it. I did not call Theresa May 'that stupid woman'. Yes you did you clown, it's on YouTube and obvious. I did attend attend a wreath-laying ceremony at the graves of terrorists who castrated and murdered Israeli athletes, but I don't think I took part. I do watch the Queen's speech sometimes, as it's on in the morning. 95% of people will not pay any more tax under Labour, er, yes, all those receiving the marriage allowance will, you liar. “I never had any higher education of any sort,” . Yes you did you liar, you dropped out of North London Polytechnic after a year. Even a second-rate poly was too hard for the Right Honourable Jeremy Corbyn MP, 2 A Levels (Grade E) Two General Elections (Failed). Why are you spouting whataboutery about Jeremy Corbyn? Who cares about him? Certainly not me. In terms of honesty though I suspect Corbyn and just about any MP in the house is more trustworthy than the fruitloop you now have in charge of the country and "your" Brexit. good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 11:13 AM Barryd999 - 2020-01-25 7:52 PM True but I guess the other leaders were just not savvy enough ................. Like when he got a deal from the EU when you and others said he had no chance. We were right. He never got a new and better deal. All he got was Theresa's deal with a border down the Irish sea which was something he and Theresa said no British Prime Minister would ever do. The EU were delighted and signed it off ASAP (While trying not to laugh) as its a great deal! For them. I see they have now pulled Johnsons pants down by publishing a map and details on all the required checks after the serial Liar told everyone there wouldnt be any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-01-26 1:40 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 11:13 AM Barryd999 - 2020-01-25 7:52 PM True but I guess the other leaders were just not savvy enough ................. Like when he got a deal from the EU when you and others said he had no chance. We were right. He never got a new and better deal. All he got was Theresa's deal with a border down the Irish sea which was something he and Theresa said no British Prime Minister would ever do. The EU were delighted and signed it off ASAP (While trying not to laugh) as its a great deal! For them. I see they have now pulled Johnsons pants down by publishing a map and details on all the required checks after the serial Liar told everyone there wouldnt be any. The EU isn't laughing. They're panicking. We're the first and their empire is teetering on the edge of recession. They need a deal with Boris otherwise German manufacturing will suffer terribly. Car production is already on the slide. We've got them by the balls and you know it. The main question is which countries will be next to leave this corrupt and wasteful empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 4:50 PM Barryd999 - 2020-01-26 1:40 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 11:13 AM Barryd999 - 2020-01-25 7:52 PM True but I guess the other leaders were just not savvy enough ................. Like when he got a deal from the EU when you and others said he had no chance. We were right. He never got a new and better deal. All he got was Theresa's deal with a border down the Irish sea which was something he and Theresa said no British Prime Minister would ever do. The EU were delighted and signed it off ASAP (While trying not to laugh) as its a great deal! For them. I see they have now pulled Johnsons pants down by publishing a map and details on all the required checks after the serial Liar told everyone there wouldnt be any. The EU isn't laughing. They're panicking. We're the first and their empire is teetering on the edge of recession. They need a deal with Boris otherwise German manufacturing will suffer terribly. Car production is already on the slide. We've got them by the balls and you know it. The main question is which countries will be next to leave this corrupt and wasteful empire. Oh Blimey! Some wee just came out there. (lol) Stop reading the Torygraph and Brexpress, its doing you no good at all. Go on say it, pleeeeze! "They need us more then we need them". For me, just this once for old times sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 26, 2020 Author Share Posted January 26, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 4:50 PM Barryd999 - 2020-01-26 1:40 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 11:13 AM Barryd999 - 2020-01-25 7:52 PM True but I guess the other leaders were just not savvy enough ................. Like when he got a deal from the EU when you and others said he had no chance. We were right. He never got a new and better deal. All he got was Theresa's deal with a border down the Irish sea which was something he and Theresa said no British Prime Minister would ever do. The EU were delighted and signed it off ASAP (While trying not to laugh) as its a great deal! For them. I see they have now pulled Johnsons pants down by publishing a map and details on all the required checks after the serial Liar told everyone there wouldnt be any. The EU isn't laughing. They're panicking. We're the first and their empire is teetering on the edge of recession. They need a deal with Boris otherwise German manufacturing will suffer terribly. Car production is already on the slide. We've got them by the balls and you know it. LMFAO!!!! You don't half come out with some utter tripe. *-) The main question is which countries will be next to leave this corrupt and wasteful empire. Sorry but THE main question is WHEN are you lot going to stop strutting around like Little Englanders and get delivering? You've got 40 brand new hospitals (not refurbs) to build....three months on and not even any footings dug for the first one. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-01-26 6:31 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 4:50 PM Barryd999 - 2020-01-26 1:40 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 11:13 AM Barryd999 - 2020-01-25 7:52 PM True but I guess the other leaders were just not savvy enough ................. Like when he got a deal from the EU when you and others said he had no chance. We were right. He never got a new and better deal. All he got was Theresa's deal with a border down the Irish sea which was something he and Theresa said no British Prime Minister would ever do. The EU were delighted and signed it off ASAP (While trying not to laugh) as its a great deal! For them. I see they have now pulled Johnsons pants down by publishing a map and details on all the required checks after the serial Liar told everyone there wouldnt be any. The EU isn't laughing. They're panicking. We're the first and their empire is teetering on the edge of recession. They need a deal with Boris otherwise German manufacturing will suffer terribly. Car production is already on the slide. We've got them by the balls and you know it. The main question is which countries will be next to leave this corrupt and wasteful empire. Oh Blimey! Some wee just came out there. (lol) Stop reading the Torygraph and Brexpress, its doing you no good at all. Go on say it, pleeeeze! "They need us more then we need them". For me, just this once for old times sake. They need us more than we need them. We're the first brick to be removed from the crumbling wall. Politically this is a huge loss to the EU, not just financially but also mainly psychologically as, when we make a success of it and other countries see us removing the shackles others will follow. Take away a small number of bricks and the edifice will collapse. You're going to look very silly in a couple of years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 5:43 PM...…………….... Take away a small number of bricks and the edifice will collapse. To be replaced by what, exactly, were that to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-01-26 6:58 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 5:43 PM...…………….... Take away a small number of bricks and the edifice will collapse. To be replaced by what, exactly, were that to happen? A Common Market of trading nations. You know, what we signed up for originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 6:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-01-26 6:58 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 5:43 PM...…………….... Take away a small number of bricks and the edifice will collapse. To be replaced by what, exactly, were that to happen? A Common Market of trading nations. You know, what we signed up for originally. But we didn't, did we? It was Margaret Thatcher who persuaded the (somewhat reluctant) EEC to introduce the Single Market and the Customs Union, before which a "Common Market" proper didn't exist. What we joined was the "European Economic Community", which was never the "Common Market" it was sold to the UK electorate as being. It was clever, 'though hollow, packaging for something that was even much more than a mere "Common Market". Look at the statements of its founders. See here: http://tinyurl.com/hy4k8ls Second paragraph under the heading "Background" refers. I do hope you didn't vote remain under that misapprehension in '75! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-01-26 7:36 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 6:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-01-26 6:58 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 5:43 PM...…………….... Take away a small number of bricks and the edifice will collapse. To be replaced by what, exactly, were that to happen? A Common Market of trading nations. You know, what we signed up for originally. But we didn't, did we? It was Margaret Thatcher who persuaded the (somewhat reluctant) EEC to introduce the Single Market and the Customs Union, before which a "Common Market" proper didn't exist. What we joined was the "European Economic Community", which was never the "Common Market" it was sold to the UK electorate as being. It was clever, 'though hollow, packaging for something that was even much more than a mere "Common Market". Look at the statements of its founders. See here: http://tinyurl.com/hy4k8ls Second paragraph under the heading "Background" refers. I do hope you didn't vote remain under that misapprehension in '75! :-) I think you know what I mean. A trading conglomerate without the waste of two parliamentary locations, massive expenditure, corruption on a huge scale, courts that override ours and a currency that disadvantages poorer nations who have no control over their exchange rates. If we'd had such an arrangement there'd probably have been no ground swell to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 5:43 PM Barryd999 - 2020-01-26 6:31 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 4:50 PM Barryd999 - 2020-01-26 1:40 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 11:13 AM Barryd999 - 2020-01-25 7:52 PM True but I guess the other leaders were just not savvy enough ................. Like when he got a deal from the EU when you and others said he had no chance. We were right. He never got a new and better deal. All he got was Theresa's deal with a border down the Irish sea which was something he and Theresa said no British Prime Minister would ever do. The EU were delighted and signed it off ASAP (While trying not to laugh) as its a great deal! For them. I see they have now pulled Johnsons pants down by publishing a map and details on all the required checks after the serial Liar told everyone there wouldnt be any. The EU isn't laughing. They're panicking. We're the first and their empire is teetering on the edge of recession. They need a deal with Boris otherwise German manufacturing will suffer terribly. Car production is already on the slide. We've got them by the balls and you know it. The main question is which countries will be next to leave this corrupt and wasteful empire. Oh Blimey! Some wee just came out there. (lol) Stop reading the Torygraph and Brexpress, its doing you no good at all. Go on say it, pleeeeze! "They need us more then we need them". For me, just this once for old times sake. They need us more than we need them. We're the first brick to be removed from the crumbling wall. Politically this is a huge loss to the EU, not just financially but also mainly psychologically as, when we make a success of it and other countries see us removing the shackles others will follow. Take away a small number of bricks and the edifice will collapse. You're going to look very silly in a couple of years time. Oh Stop!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 6:47 PM I think you know what I mean. A trading conglomerate without the waste of two parliamentary locations, massive expenditure, corruption on a huge scale, courts that override ours The EU Parliament for 27 Nations is smaller than the House of Lords FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 6:47 PM and a currency that disadvantages poorer nations who have no control over their exchange rates. Thats True Actually 8-) (was it a mistake ;-) ) - In my lifetime I've seen the pound lose over 90% of its value https://fxtop.com/en/historical-exchange-rates.php?A=1&C1=GBP&C2=CHF&DD1=01&MM1=01&YYYY1=1967&B=1&P=&I=1&DD2=26&MM2=01&YYYY2=2020&btnOK=Go%21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 6:47 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-01-26 7:36 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 6:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-01-26 6:58 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 5:43 PM...…………….... Take away a small number of bricks and the edifice will collapse. To be replaced by what, exactly, were that to happen? A Common Market of trading nations. You know, what we signed up for originally. But we didn't, did we? It was Margaret Thatcher who persuaded the (somewhat reluctant) EEC to introduce the Single Market and the Customs Union, before which a "Common Market" proper didn't exist. What we joined was the "European Economic Community", which was never the "Common Market" it was sold to the UK electorate as being. It was clever, 'though hollow, packaging for something that was even much more than a mere "Common Market". Look at the statements of its founders. See here: http://tinyurl.com/hy4k8ls Second paragraph under the heading "Background" refers. I do hope you didn't vote remain under that misapprehension in '75! :-) I think you know what I mean. A trading conglomerate without the waste of two parliamentary locations, massive expenditure, corruption on a huge scale, courts that override ours and a currency that disadvantages poorer nations who have no control over their exchange rates. If we'd had such an arrangement there'd probably have been no ground swell to leave. In truth no, I don't know what you mean. I'll accept the two parliamentary locations (though I have great doubts over the proposed move of the HOL to York on similar grounds). I don't understand your objection to "massive expenditure", or to what, of that expenditure, it is that you abject. Corruption is a serious problem, but it is highly debatable, given the historic background of the nation states involved, that its scale would be any different in a 2020 EEC than it is in a 2020 EU. If you got your wish to revert to the EEC, sadly, I suspect you would still have the same complaint. Courts that overrule ours? Which courts? Overrule how? To my knowledge there are two. The European Court of Justice (ECJ), and the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR). The ECJ had been formed 20 years before we joined the EEC, so was part of the deal, and the ECHR has nothing to do with the EEC/EU having been formed in 1959 by the Council of Europe, of which the UK is a founder member (1949). With a group of individual nation states all indulging in "free trade", which logically implies common standards and freedom from non-tariff barriers, there must be a pan-national referee. The ECJ is that referee. Yes the currency benefits the richer states and disadvantages the less rich states. However, adopting the Euro is optional - in that those who don't want to take it up don't have to join the EU. It is noteworthy that Montenegro and Kosovo have voluntarily adopted the Euro though neither is rich or a member of the EU, and that 22 other countries have pegged their currencies to it. Its advantage seems to be its greater stability which is beneficial to international trade - a factor I assume the states adopting it have taken into account. So, to return to my point, how would the collapse of the EU be beneficial overall? It would bring in chaos on a grand scale, but little more that I can see, and as to the prospects for reducing corruption in that world...……………………………………………..??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-01-27 7:48 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 6:47 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-01-26 7:36 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 6:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-01-26 6:58 PM FunsterJohn - 2020-01-26 5:43 PM...…………….... Take away a small number of bricks and the edifice will collapse. To be replaced by what, exactly, were that to happen? A Common Market of trading nations. You know, what we signed up for originally. But we didn't, did we? It was Margaret Thatcher who persuaded the (somewhat reluctant) EEC to introduce the Single Market and the Customs Union, before which a "Common Market" proper didn't exist. What we joined was the "European Economic Community", which was never the "Common Market" it was sold to the UK electorate as being. It was clever, 'though hollow, packaging for something that was even much more than a mere "Common Market". Look at the statements of its founders. See here: http://tinyurl.com/hy4k8ls Second paragraph under the heading "Background" refers. I do hope you didn't vote remain under that misapprehension in '75! :-) I think you know what I mean. A trading conglomerate without the waste of two parliamentary locations, massive expenditure, corruption on a huge scale, courts that override ours and a currency that disadvantages poorer nations who have no control over their exchange rates. If we'd had such an arrangement there'd probably have been no ground swell to leave. In truth no, I don't know what you mean. I'll accept the two parliamentary locations (though I have great doubts over the proposed move of the HOL to York on similar grounds). I don't understand your objection to "massive expenditure", or to what, of that expenditure, it is that you abject. Corruption is a serious problem, but it is highly debatable, given the historic background of the nation states involved, that its scale would be any different in a 2020 EEC than it is in a 2020 EU. If you got your wish to revert to the EEC, sadly, I suspect you would still have the same complaint. Courts that overrule ours? Which courts? Overrule how? To my knowledge there are two. The European Court of Justice (ECJ), and the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR). The ECJ had been formed 20 years before we joined the EEC, so was part of the deal, and the ECHR has nothing to do with the EEC/EU having been formed in 1959 by the Council of Europe, of which the UK is a founder member (1949). With a group of individual nation states all indulging in "free trade", which logically implies common standards and freedom from non-tariff barriers, there must be a pan-national referee. The ECJ is that referee. Yes the currency benefits the richer states and disadvantages the less rich states. However, adopting the Euro is optional - in that those who don't want to take it up don't have to join the EU. It is noteworthy that Montenegro and Kosovo have voluntarily adopted the Euro though neither is rich or a member of the EU, and that 22 other countries have pegged their currencies to it. Its advantage seems to be its greater stability which is beneficial to international trade - a factor I assume the states adopting it have taken into account. So, to return to my point, how would the collapse of the EU be beneficial overall? It would bring in chaos on a grand scale, but little more that I can see, and as to the prospects for reducing corruption in that world...……………………………………………..??? Yes, the ECJ was there when we joined, but so what? That's why people like me want to leave the EU, to rid ourselves of the parts of it that we don't like. https://lawyersforbritain.org/brexit-legal-guide/eu-law-and-the-ecj/eu-law-the-ecj-and-primacy-over-national-laws There are many reasons that I wanted us to leave, control of our borders being one, regaining lost jobs in Britain's fishing industry is another. I don't want every Albanian pimp or Latvian rapist to have unfettered access to my country. I want to decide whom we let in. I don't want to splash out billions to support this empire whose objective appears to be greater federalism. You brush off the twin parliament fiasco with a remark about York. You know that will never happen but I don't recollect that proposal being about packing up the entire House of Lords and moving it to York and every six months packing it up again to go back to London. As for chaos if the EU finally decides that the game is up, why should there be chaos? Is there chaos now because we're going? It can be managed. Finally, the world should be moving to greater individual freedom for its nations. Why should Kosovo have been part of Serbia when 90% of its population is Albanian? Why can't Catalonia be independent? And yes, if Scotland wants to break up the Union, let them. We can still have trading agreements without the need for the overweening and overbearing EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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