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Troops on standby
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userBulletguy
Posted: 18 December 2018 4:55 PM
Subject: Troops on standby
 


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Good God not only is the country going to Hell in a handcart it's gone bonkers!

Emergency no-deal Brexit contingency plans must now be implemented across government, cabinet ministers have agreed, including reserving ferry space for supplies and putting 3,500 armed forces personnel on standby to deal with any disruption.

No 10 confirmed on Tuesday that ministers would “ramp up” no-deal planning, and that the departments would be expected to make it their main priority.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/18/brexit-cabinet-meets-to-discuss-ramping-up-plans-for-no-deal

May has also had another about turn and plans to hold a series of votes in Parliament to find out what kind of Brexit MPs will support. Best cancel the Christmas fortnight close down of parliament and make it a 2 day break....like millions of other workers have to though some have to work through Christmas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46608952
userpelmetman
Posted: 18 December 2018 5:45 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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userantony1969
Posted: 18 December 2018 6:57 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Thought this thread was guna be about Macrons France ... On about chemical spraying government protesters this weekend in EU golden boys France
userTracker
Posted: 18 December 2018 7:49 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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It makes perfect sense to plan for no deal the way things are looking right now and not to plan for this eventuality would be negligent.

Always look on the bright side - at least all the money spent on planning for a no deal will be spent in the UK and not exported.

It is well overdue that we stopped letting Johnny Foreigner dictate to us how we will run our own country and we have overcome far worse foes than Juncker, Tusk and Barnier - those well known harbingers of doom from the wrong side of the water.
userantony1969
Posted: 18 December 2018 7:52 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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2 billion against 39 billion ... No brainer ... Cmon
userBulletguy
Posted: 18 December 2018 10:08 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Tracker - 2018-12-18 7:49 PM

It makes perfect sense to plan for no deal the way things are looking right now and not to plan for this eventuality would be negligent.

Always look on the bright side - at least all the money spent on planning for a no deal will be spent in the UK and not exported.

It is well overdue that we stopped letting Johnny Foreigner dictate to us how we will run our own country and we have overcome far worse foes than Juncker, Tusk and Barnier - those well known harbingers of doom from the wrong side of the water.

1) Each time anything was posted showing the catastrophic damage 'no deal' would cause, it was flippantly dismissed as more 'Remoaner whinging' or 'project fear'......yet now you're saying it 'makes perfect sense' to blow £2 billion on planning for something you previously dismissed.

2) I can think of far better and more productive ways of spending £2bn.

3) As a member state we had a seat at the table with elected MEP's. Afaik they were democratically elected to represent this country so whilst it's well known Farage was hardly ever there, are you saying none of them represented us? That's not the fault of the EU, that's our own fault...but then it's always been easier to blame the EU. Your last comment typifies the Little Englander mentality nostalgic for it's colonial "Empire" days.
userTracker
Posted: 18 December 2018 10:23 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Dreadfully sorry old BG, I forgot that you had no sense of humour.

There you go again, same old socialist crud, whenever you are short of a sensible comment invent something you wish someone had said to justify your own bias.

Never once did I ever dismiss no deal planning as silly, although I must admit to dismissing some of your ravings as silly!

I too could spend £2 billion better - lets start by not allowing the EU to blow it away shall we!

I'm not blaming the EU for anything other than an over zealous protectionist attitude designed not to ensure a smooth Brexit transition but instead designed to show any other disillusioned nations just how intransigent and inward looking the EU really is .
userBulletguy
Posted: 18 December 2018 10:23 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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To quote the description of a 'front line' boss at Dover port who does know what he's talking about........."Armageddon".

Just look at the amount of documents required for one (non-EU) truck which currently account for 3% of the volume passing through each day......under 'no deal' that then applies to every single truck.

!8 months to train a Customs entry clerk of which they have just 35.....they would need at least ten time that amount to staff....and remember the training time needed.

https://youtu.be/Ev1S1mg-raw?t=854
userTracker
Posted: 18 December 2018 10:27 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Your prediliction for searching out the negative must make you a bundle of laughs to live with!

Always look on the bright side of life.
userBulletguy
Posted: 18 December 2018 10:29 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Tracker - 2018-12-18 10:23 PM

Dreadfully sorry old BG, I forgot that you had no sense of humour.

There you go again, same old socialist crud, whenever you are short of a sensible comment invent something you wish someone had said to justify your own bias.

Never once did I ever dismiss no deal planning as silly, although I must admit to dismissing some of your ravings as silly!

I too could spend £2 billion better - lets start by not allowing the EU to blow it away shall we!

I'm not blaming the EU for anything other than an over zealous protectionist attitude designed not to ensure a smooth Brexit transition but instead designed to show any other disillusioned nations just how intransigent and inward looking the EU really is .

So you accept the damage 'no deal' would cause would be absolutely catastrophic? I'm not sure how anyone could possibly deny it wouldn't be as there have been more than enough warnings.....including what i just posted from Channel 4 news tonight at Dover port.
userTracker
Posted: 18 December 2018 10:33 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Jeez BG you must be the thickest post around.
I never said anything like that and well you know it and as another attempt at distortion by you that was a particularly crude one!
Get real, no deal will probably happen and put your seat belt on when it does as your world will cease to revolve whilst everyone else's world just adapts and carries on.
userBulletguy
Posted: 18 December 2018 10:44 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Tracker - 2018-12-18 10:33 PM

Jeez BG you must be the thickest post around.
I never said anything like that and well you know it and as another attempt at distortion by you that was a particularly crude one!
Get real, no deal will probably happen and put your seat belt on when it does as your world will cease to revolve whilst everyone else's world just adapts and carries on.

It wasn't a statement fgs...it was a question and a big clue is that thing at the end....a question mark.
userBulletguy
Posted: 18 December 2018 11:09 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Tracker - 2018-12-18 10:27 PM

Your prediliction for searching out the negative must make you a bundle of laughs to live with!

Always look on the bright side of life.

I'm not sure what you managed to find 'negative' about that report nor do i find it anything to laugh about either. I'm afraid people need to start taking this matter a lot more seriously than they have been..

Incidentally to put cost into perspective, EU membership costs works out at approx £260 pa per household so for a couple or family it's peanut money. BT charge me more than double that for a phone line and internet connection and my council charge me five times the amount.

https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377
userTracker
Posted: 18 December 2018 11:10 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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That's odd, no wonder I didn't react the way you intended, a question mark used to appear at the end of a question not in the middle where it looks like a typing error. Never mind, feel free to carry on distorting and misquoting as we would not want you to feel inferior in any way!
userBulletguy
Posted: 18 December 2018 11:41 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Tracker - 2018-12-18 11:10 PM

That's odd, no wonder I didn't react the way you intended, a question mark used to appear at the end of a question not in the middle where it looks like a typing error. Never mind, feel free to carry on distorting and misquoting as we would not want you to feel inferior in any way!

You're being as obtuse as the two Beano boys now Richard, i expect a slightly better standard from you.

Pasted as per quote; So you accept the damage 'no deal' would cause would be absolutely catastrophic?

That question mark looks to be at the sentence end.......not 'in the middle'.
userTracker
Posted: 19 December 2018 10:53 AM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Bulletguy - 2018-12-18 11:41 PM
So you accept the damage 'no deal' would cause would be absolutely catastrophic?


No I don't. Catastrophic is the kind of over dramatic terminology favoured by extremists and that kind of politically obsessed negativity does nothing to help anyone.

I expect it will be difficult and I expect that the economy will suffer initially as a result of EU intransigence, but in the longer term I expect the UK to prosper well as sensible trade deals are forged all around the globe as indeed have many other non EU nations all over the world.

Much depends on innovative and supportive government and I have seen nothing from either party to give much confidence that they will be anything but even more inept and reactive than in the past.

userBarryd999
Posted: 19 December 2018 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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I can tell you as someone who knows the economy of the North East very well and has worked with hundreds of businesses across the entire region that a 16% dip in the Economy of the region will indeed be "Catastrophic" and those are the governments own predictions under a no deal scenario. No deal however IMO as already stated wont happen.
userTracker
Posted: 19 December 2018 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 11:37 AM
I can tell you as someone who knows the economy of the North East very well and has worked with hundreds of businesses across the entire region that a 16% dip in the Economy of the region will indeed be "Catastrophic" and those are the governments own predictions under a no deal scenario. No deal however IMO as already stated wont happen.


Sorry Barry but this purely your opinion and is not fact and it is both misleading and incorrect to try and convey your own opinion as fact.

Brits are a very resourceful lot and whilst I do accept there will be hardship during the period of re-adjustment needed to resolve the new order, and the word catastrophic may unfortunately apply to some companies and families, it is unlikely to appy to the whole economy unless successive HMGs make an even bigger cock up of running the show.

Like your own, that is purely my view and not fact.
userBarryd999
Posted: 19 December 2018 12:09 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Tracker - 2018-12-19 11:46 AM

Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 11:37 AM
I can tell you as someone who knows the economy of the North East very well and has worked with hundreds of businesses across the entire region that a 16% dip in the Economy of the region will indeed be "Catastrophic" and those are the governments own predictions under a no deal scenario. No deal however IMO as already stated wont happen.


Sorry Barry but this purely your opinion and is not fact and it is both misleading and incorrect to try and convey your own opinion as fact.

Brits are a very resourceful lot and whilst I do accept there will be hardship during the period of re-adjustment needed to resolve the new order, and the word catastrophic may unfortunately apply to some companies and families, it is unlikely to appy to the whole economy unless successive HMGs make an even bigger cock up of running the show.

Like your own, that is purely my view and not fact.


The 16% figure is not my opinion its the Governments own analysis! Doesnt sound much does it 16% but it is indeed catastrophic. The North East relies heavily on Manufacturing which would be devastated but thats just collateral damage to the headbangers that are leading the No Deal charge in their bid to turn the UK into a deregulated tax haven where only they, the power hungry and their rich buddies will benefit. Its frustrating beyond belief watching people back them and swallow the sunlit uplands and Unicorns myth.

Your final statement is an oxymoron. Just look at their track record so far on Brexit.
userantony1969
Posted: 19 December 2018 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 12:09 PM

Tracker - 2018-12-19 11:46 AM

Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 11:37 AM
I can tell you as someone who knows the economy of the North East very well and has worked with hundreds of businesses across the entire region that a 16% dip in the Economy of the region will indeed be "Catastrophic" and those are the governments own predictions under a no deal scenario. No deal however IMO as already stated wont happen.


Sorry Barry but this purely your opinion and is not fact and it is both misleading and incorrect to try and convey your own opinion as fact.

Brits are a very resourceful lot and whilst I do accept there will be hardship during the period of re-adjustment needed to resolve the new order, and the word catastrophic may unfortunately apply to some companies and families, it is unlikely to appy to the whole economy unless successive HMGs make an even bigger cock up of running the show.

Like your own, that is purely my view and not fact.


The 16% figure is not my opinion its the Governments own analysis! Doesnt sound much does it 16% but it is indeed catastrophic. The North East relies heavily on Manufacturing which would be devastated but thats just collateral damage to the headbangers that are leading the No Deal charge in their bid to turn the UK into a deregulated tax haven where only they, the power hungry and their rich buddies will benefit. Its frustrating beyond belief watching people back them and swallow the sunlit uplands and Unicorns myth.

Your final statement is an oxymoron. Just look at their track record so far on Brexit.


16% ... From the same remainer civil servants that gave us project fear ... Move on Barry
userBarryd999
Posted: 19 December 2018 12:49 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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antony1969 - 2018-12-19 12:30 PM

Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 12:09 PM

Tracker - 2018-12-19 11:46 AM

Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 11:37 AM
I can tell you as someone who knows the economy of the North East very well and has worked with hundreds of businesses across the entire region that a 16% dip in the Economy of the region will indeed be "Catastrophic" and those are the governments own predictions under a no deal scenario. No deal however IMO as already stated wont happen.


Sorry Barry but this purely your opinion and is not fact and it is both misleading and incorrect to try and convey your own opinion as fact.

Brits are a very resourceful lot and whilst I do accept there will be hardship during the period of re-adjustment needed to resolve the new order, and the word catastrophic may unfortunately apply to some companies and families, it is unlikely to appy to the whole economy unless successive HMGs make an even bigger cock up of running the show.

Like your own, that is purely my view and not fact.


The 16% figure is not my opinion its the Governments own analysis! Doesnt sound much does it 16% but it is indeed catastrophic. The North East relies heavily on Manufacturing which would be devastated but thats just collateral damage to the headbangers that are leading the No Deal charge in their bid to turn the UK into a deregulated tax haven where only they, the power hungry and their rich buddies will benefit. Its frustrating beyond belief watching people back them and swallow the sunlit uplands and Unicorns myth.

Your final statement is an oxymoron. Just look at their track record so far on Brexit.


16% ... From the same remainer civil servants that gave us project fear ... Move on Barry


Why would a pro Brexit Government use a supposedly biased anti Brexit team to produce the analysis? Why do all similar in depth reports such as the ones the Scottish Government carried out and the one that came from independent sources in the USA of all places result in very similar figures.

Tell you what. Show me some figures that show a positive outcome and ill consider voting to leave in the next referendum.
userTracker
Posted: 19 December 2018 12:54 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 12:49 PM
Show me some figures that show a positive outcome and ill consider voting to leave in the next referendum.


Not possible because nobody knows, plenty might guess but nobody really knows because it is dependent upon too many variables and it is only the political bias of the 'catastophy sellers' that would have us believe different.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 19 December 2018 1:32 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Tracker - 2018-12-19 12:54 PM

Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 12:49 PM
Show me some figures that show a positive outcome and ill consider voting to leave in the next referendum.


Not possible because nobody knows, plenty might guess but nobody really knows because it is dependent upon too many variables and it is only the political bias of the 'catastophy sellers' that would have us believe different.

But Rich, by the same token, I suspect you don't know what political bias these various forecasters, actually, have. So what then?

Just ignore any forecast that shows Brexit as economically damaging, go for it, and then see what happens?

Then what if the forecasts prove broadly correct?

If people think second referendum might stir up a hornet's nest, Brexiting in the face of forecasts that it will be economically damaging, and proving the forecasts right, is hardly going to result in peace and calm is it? Those who lose jobs, businesses that lose orders or cease trading, households whose incomes fall, those whose investments lose value, are going to howl that the forecasts were right and fools ignored them. Thwarting an expectation is small beer compared to impoverishing an economy.

Edited by Brian Kirby 2018-12-19 1:33 PM
userantony1969
Posted: 19 December 2018 1:56 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 12:49 PM

antony1969 - 2018-12-19 12:30 PM

Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 12:09 PM

Tracker - 2018-12-19 11:46 AM

Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 11:37 AM
I can tell you as someone who knows the economy of the North East very well and has worked with hundreds of businesses across the entire region that a 16% dip in the Economy of the region will indeed be "Catastrophic" and those are the governments own predictions under a no deal scenario. No deal however IMO as already stated wont happen.


Sorry Barry but this purely your opinion and is not fact and it is both misleading and incorrect to try and convey your own opinion as fact.

Brits are a very resourceful lot and whilst I do accept there will be hardship during the period of re-adjustment needed to resolve the new order, and the word catastrophic may unfortunately apply to some companies and families, it is unlikely to appy to the whole economy unless successive HMGs make an even bigger cock up of running the show.

Like your own, that is purely my view and not fact.


The 16% figure is not my opinion its the Governments own analysis! Doesnt sound much does it 16% but it is indeed catastrophic. The North East relies heavily on Manufacturing which would be devastated but thats just collateral damage to the headbangers that are leading the No Deal charge in their bid to turn the UK into a deregulated tax haven where only they, the power hungry and their rich buddies will benefit. Its frustrating beyond belief watching people back them and swallow the sunlit uplands and Unicorns myth.

Your final statement is an oxymoron. Just look at their track record so far on Brexit.


16% ... From the same remainer civil servants that gave us project fear ... Move on Barry


Why would a pro Brexit Government use a supposedly biased anti Brexit team to produce the analysis? Why do all similar in depth reports such as the ones the Scottish Government carried out and the one that came from independent sources in the USA of all places result in very similar figures.

Tell you what. Show me some figures that show a positive outcome and ill consider voting to leave in the next referendum.


"Pro-Brexit Government" ??? ... Two years in and you've still not worked out many at the top table at remainers ... C'mon Barry ... As for what way you vote in 40 years time I couldn't give a ....
userTracker
Posted: 19 December 2018 2:03 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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I am going to cop out Brian, I didn't get us into this mess and I have no idea as to the best way forward from where we are now.

I don't read anybody's political of financial forecasts and I try to ignore all the posturing from all sides, but that is easier said than done.

Once again, copping out, life's experience has led me not to worry about things over which I have no control.

I am far from convinced that leaving the EU is a good idea and I have little doubt that hardship and a lot of discomfort is heading the way of many people who, as ever, have done nothing wrong and I do feel for them when their world collapses through no fault of their own. That said my world too has collapsed a few times over the years so I do have some experience, but I have always managed to spring back one way or another, usually without anyone's help.

Neither am I convinced that staying in the EU is neccessary for the longer term viability of the UK economy and I certainly am not in favour of further EU integration and intervention in the running of the UK both politically and financially. I do not believe we need it to make our way in the world.
userStuartO
Posted: 19 December 2018 2:13 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 
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Brian Kirby - 2018-12-19 1:32 PM ..... If people think second referendum might stir up a hornet's nest, Brexiting in the face of forecasts that it will be economically damaging, and proving the forecasts right, is hardly going to result in peace and calm is it? .....


We know you're committed to Remaining Brian and you haven't apparently convinced many on here to change their minds, so do we really have to see you riding your hobby horse again and again?

I voted remain but I respect the result and I'm content to see the Government take us out of the EU, as the people decided - isn't that what all democrats have to do, rather than keep arguing for that decision to be ignored?
userStuartO
Posted: 19 December 2018 2:21 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 
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Apparently the MOD are planning to make 3,500 troops available as a contingency in case of No Deal, which doesn't sound like all that many, especially if we are facing chaos at Dover etc etc. And they are having to resort to using Reservits in order to muster that many. But 3,500 should be enough for an extra security ring around Whitehall, as long as the have armoured vehicles and machine guns. (The Army is after all an armed force, equipped primarily for going to war.)

Pity we scrapped those two Water Cannons if they will be having to face crowd control challenges, isn't it?


Edited by StuartO 2018-12-19 2:27 PM
userBarryd999
Posted: 19 December 2018 2:42 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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antony1969 - 2018-12-19 1:56 PM

Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 12:49 PM

antony1969 - 2018-12-19 12:30 PM

Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 12:09 PM

Tracker - 2018-12-19 11:46 AM

Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 11:37 AM
I can tell you as someone who knows the economy of the North East very well and has worked with hundreds of businesses across the entire region that a 16% dip in the Economy of the region will indeed be "Catastrophic" and those are the governments own predictions under a no deal scenario. No deal however IMO as already stated wont happen.


Sorry Barry but this purely your opinion and is not fact and it is both misleading and incorrect to try and convey your own opinion as fact.

Brits are a very resourceful lot and whilst I do accept there will be hardship during the period of re-adjustment needed to resolve the new order, and the word catastrophic may unfortunately apply to some companies and families, it is unlikely to appy to the whole economy unless successive HMGs make an even bigger cock up of running the show.

Like your own, that is purely my view and not fact.


The 16% figure is not my opinion its the Governments own analysis! Doesnt sound much does it 16% but it is indeed catastrophic. The North East relies heavily on Manufacturing which would be devastated but thats just collateral damage to the headbangers that are leading the No Deal charge in their bid to turn the UK into a deregulated tax haven where only they, the power hungry and their rich buddies will benefit. Its frustrating beyond belief watching people back them and swallow the sunlit uplands and Unicorns myth.

Your final statement is an oxymoron. Just look at their track record so far on Brexit.


16% ... From the same remainer civil servants that gave us project fear ... Move on Barry


Why would a pro Brexit Government use a supposedly biased anti Brexit team to produce the analysis? Why do all similar in depth reports such as the ones the Scottish Government carried out and the one that came from independent sources in the USA of all places result in very similar figures.

Tell you what. Show me some figures that show a positive outcome and ill consider voting to leave in the next referendum.


"Pro-Brexit Government" ??? ... Two years in and you've still not worked out many at the top table at remainers ... C'mon Barry ... As for what way you vote in 40 years time I couldn't give a ....


There are only a couple of die hard remainers the rest are ether Brexiteers or born again Brexiteers. 40 years time? Try four months.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 19 December 2018 3:02 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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StuartO - 2018-12-19 2:13 PM

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-19 1:32 PM ..... If people think second referendum might stir up a hornet's nest, Brexiting in the face of forecasts that it will be economically damaging, and proving the forecasts right, is hardly going to result in peace and calm is it? .....


We know you're committed to Remaining Brian and you haven't apparently convinced many on here to change their minds, so do we really have to see you riding your hobby horse again and again?

I voted remain but I respect the result and I'm content to see the Government take us out of the EU, as the people decided - isn't that what all democrats have to do, rather than keep arguing for that decision to be ignored?

My fault, I'm sure Stuart, but I don't think I've actually done either of those things, have I? Doubtless you'll show me where.

As to whether I should "ride my hobby horse", why not? Is this debate now only open to Brexiters - or Brexit converts?

Have those of us who consider Brexit an economically damaging venture now forfeited our right to express that opinion? Would the resulting silence signal democracy, or the death of democracy?
userpelmetman
Posted: 19 December 2018 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: Troops on standby
 


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StuartO - 2018-12-19 2:21 PM

Apparently the MOD are planning to make 3,500 troops available as a contingency in case of No Deal, which doesn't sound like all that many, especially if we are facing chaos at Dover etc etc. And they are having to resort to using Reservits in order to muster that many. But 3,500 should be enough for an extra security ring around Whitehall, as long as the have armoured vehicles and machine guns. (The Army is after all an armed force, equipped primarily for going to war.)

Pity we scrapped those two Water Cannons if they will be having to face crowd control challenges, isn't it?


Perhaps Macron has threatened to load the ferries with migrants? ...........

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