StuartO Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-12-19 1:32 PM ..... If people think second referendum might stir up a hornet's nest, Brexiting in the face of forecasts that it will be economically damaging, and proving the forecasts right, is hardly going to result in peace and calm is it? ..... We know you're committed to Remaining Brian and you haven't apparently convinced many on here to change their minds, so do we really have to see you riding your hobby horse again and again? I voted remain but I respect the result and I'm content to see the Government take us out of the EU, as the people decided - isn't that what all democrats have to do, rather than keep arguing for that decision to be ignored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Apparently the MOD are planning to make 3,500 troops available as a contingency in case of No Deal, which doesn't sound like all that many, especially if we are facing chaos at Dover etc etc. And they are having to resort to using Reservits in order to muster that many. But 3,500 should be enough for an extra security ring around Whitehall, as long as the have armoured vehicles and machine guns. (The Army is after all an armed force, equipped primarily for going to war.) Pity we scrapped those two Water Cannons if they will be having to face crowd control challenges, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-12-19 1:56 PM Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 12:49 PM antony1969 - 2018-12-19 12:30 PM Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 12:09 PM Tracker - 2018-12-19 11:46 AM Barryd999 - 2018-12-19 11:37 AM I can tell you as someone who knows the economy of the North East very well and has worked with hundreds of businesses across the entire region that a 16% dip in the Economy of the region will indeed be "Catastrophic" and those are the governments own predictions under a no deal scenario. No deal however IMO as already stated wont happen. Sorry Barry but this purely your opinion and is not fact and it is both misleading and incorrect to try and convey your own opinion as fact. Brits are a very resourceful lot and whilst I do accept there will be hardship during the period of re-adjustment needed to resolve the new order, and the word catastrophic may unfortunately apply to some companies and families, it is unlikely to appy to the whole economy unless successive HMGs make an even bigger cock up of running the show. Like your own, that is purely my view and not fact. The 16% figure is not my opinion its the Governments own analysis! Doesnt sound much does it 16% but it is indeed catastrophic. The North East relies heavily on Manufacturing which would be devastated but thats just collateral damage to the headbangers that are leading the No Deal charge in their bid to turn the UK into a deregulated tax haven where only they, the power hungry and their rich buddies will benefit. Its frustrating beyond belief watching people back them and swallow the sunlit uplands and Unicorns myth. Your final statement is an oxymoron. Just look at their track record so far on Brexit. 16% ... From the same remainer civil servants that gave us project fear ... Move on Barry Why would a pro Brexit Government use a supposedly biased anti Brexit team to produce the analysis? Why do all similar in depth reports such as the ones the Scottish Government carried out and the one that came from independent sources in the USA of all places result in very similar figures. Tell you what. Show me some figures that show a positive outcome and ill consider voting to leave in the next referendum. "Pro-Brexit Government" ??? ... Two years in and you've still not worked out many at the top table at remainers ... C'mon Barry ... As for what way you vote in 40 years time I couldn't give a .... There are only a couple of die hard remainers the rest are ether Brexiteers or born again Brexiteers. 40 years time? Try four months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 StuartO - 2018-12-19 2:13 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-12-19 1:32 PM ..... If people think second referendum might stir up a hornet's nest, Brexiting in the face of forecasts that it will be economically damaging, and proving the forecasts right, is hardly going to result in peace and calm is it? ..... We know you're committed to Remaining Brian and you haven't apparently convinced many on here to change their minds, so do we really have to see you riding your hobby horse again and again? I voted remain but I respect the result and I'm content to see the Government take us out of the EU, as the people decided - isn't that what all democrats have to do, rather than keep arguing for that decision to be ignored? My fault, I'm sure Stuart, but I don't think I've actually done either of those things, have I? Doubtless you'll show me where. As to whether I should "ride my hobby horse", why not? Is this debate now only open to Brexiters - or Brexit converts? Have those of us who consider Brexit an economically damaging venture now forfeited our right to express that opinion? Would the resulting silence signal democracy, or the death of democracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 StuartO - 2018-12-19 2:21 PM Apparently the MOD are planning to make 3,500 troops available as a contingency in case of No Deal, which doesn't sound like all that many, especially if we are facing chaos at Dover etc etc. And they are having to resort to using Reservits in order to muster that many. But 3,500 should be enough for an extra security ring around Whitehall, as long as the have armoured vehicles and machine guns. (The Army is after all an armed force, equipped primarily for going to war.) Pity we scrapped those two Water Cannons if they will be having to face crowd control challenges, isn't it? Perhaps Macron has threatened to load the ferries with migrants? :D ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 StuartO - 2018-12-19 2:21 PM Apparently the MOD are planning to make 3,500 troops available as a contingency in case of No Deal, which doesn't sound like all that many, especially if we are facing chaos at Dover etc etc. And they are having to resort to using Reservits in order to muster that many. But 3,500 should be enough for an extra security ring around Whitehall, as long as the have armoured vehicles and machine guns. (The Army is after all an armed force, equipped primarily for going to war.) Pity we scrapped those two Water Cannons if they will be having to face crowd control challenges, isn't it? Perhaps Macron has threatened to load the ferries with migrants? :D ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-12-19 3:02 PM StuartO - 2018-12-19 2:13 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-12-19 1:32 PM ..... If people think second referendum might stir up a hornet's nest, Brexiting in the face of forecasts that it will be economically damaging, and proving the forecasts right, is hardly going to result in peace and calm is it? ..... We know you're committed to Remaining Brian and you haven't apparently convinced many on here to change their minds, so do we really have to see you riding your hobby horse again and again? I voted remain but I respect the result and I'm content to see the Government take us out of the EU, as the people decided - isn't that what all democrats have to do, rather than keep arguing for that decision to be ignored? My fault, I'm sure Stuart, but I don't think I've actually done either of those things, have I? Doubtless you'll show me where. As to whether I should "ride my hobby horse", why not? Is this debate now only open to Brexiters - or Brexit converts? Have those of us who consider Brexit an economically damaging venture now forfeited our right to express that opinion? Would the resulting silence signal democracy, or the death of democracy? I do giggle at your dramatics Brian (lol) ......... Has Britain NOT been through worse times than leaving a club that we were never really a member of? ;-) ......... You could always get on your Hymer horse and take up temporary residence in the Fatherland :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 19, 2018 Author Share Posted December 19, 2018 Tracker - 2018-12-19 10:53 AM Bulletguy - 2018-12-18 11:41 PM So you accept the damage 'no deal' would cause would be absolutely catastrophic?[/i] No I don't. Catastrophic is the kind of over dramatic terminology favoured by extremists and that kind of politically obsessed negativity does nothing to help anyone. Really?? The CEO of Star Cargo used a far more blunt term than that and Steve Applebee of Habrour Shipping didn't mince his words either!! Have you even watched and listened to that clip i posted last night? "Over dramatic"?? "Politically obsessed extremists"?? Are you still prepared to dismiss their opinion with the same disdain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-12-19 3:48 PM Tracker - 2018-12-19 10:53 AM Bulletguy - 2018-12-18 11:41 PM So you accept the damage 'no deal' would cause would be absolutely catastrophic?[/i] No I don't. Catastrophic is the kind of over dramatic terminology favoured by extremists and that kind of politically obsessed negativity does nothing to help anyone. Really?? The CEO of Star Cargo used a far more blunt term than that and Steve Applebee of Habrour Shipping didn't mince his words either!! Have you even watched and listened to that clip i posted last night? "Over dramatic"?? "Politically obsessed extremists"?? Are you still prepared to dismiss their opinion with the same disdain? Best check your Tennaman Bullet ;-) ......... I think you may have just filled it :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 StuartO - 2018-12-19 2:13 PM you haven't apparently convinced many on here to change their minds, “MANY".........? On here, I reckon you could have trouble rounding up more that a couple of dozen people who are active on here. And getting more than double that to ADMIT that they even drop in now and then would be difficult. It’s a bit like having a natter down a rather seedy local, no more no less. Snowie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 StuartO - 2018-12-19 2:21 PM Apparently the MOD are planning to make 3,500 troops available as a contingency in case of No Deal, which doesn't sound like all that many, especially if we are facing chaos at Dover etc etc. And they are having to resort to using Reservits in order to muster that many. But 3,500 should be enough for an extra security ring around Whitehall, as long as the have armoured vehicles and machine guns. (The Army is after all an armed force, equipped primarily for going to war.) They don't say what the troops are on standby for but I would assume it is for keeping vital supplies moving, if necessary. So I think they will be on standby with their trucks - not their guns. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 snowie - 2018-12-19 3:55 PM StuartO - 2018-12-19 2:13 PM you haven't apparently convinced many on here to change their minds, “MANY".........? On here, I reckon you could have trouble rounding up more that a couple of dozen people who are active on here. And getting more than double that to ADMIT that they even drop in now and then would be difficult. It’s a bit like having a natter down a rather seedy local, no more no less. Snowie Seedy? 8-) .... CB is where us folk who ain't scared of having an opinion are prepared to share them :-| ......... I'm kinda get the feeling you Socialists don't like that kinda free speech? ;-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 malc d - 2018-12-19 4:00 PM StuartO - 2018-12-19 2:21 PM Apparently the MOD are planning to make 3,500 troops available as a contingency in case of No Deal, which doesn't sound like all that many, especially if we are facing chaos at Dover etc etc. And they are having to resort to using Reservits in order to muster that many. But 3,500 should be enough for an extra security ring around Whitehall, as long as the have armoured vehicles and machine guns. (The Army is after all an armed force, equipped primarily for going to war.) They don't say what the troops are on standby for but I would assume it is for keeping vital supplies moving, if necessary. So I think they will be on standby with their trucks - not their guns. :-| They'll be needed to supply those folk in the queues for 6 months at dover (lol) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-19 3:48 PM...…………………..Has Britain NOT been through worse times than leaving a club that we were never really a member of? ;-) ................. Of course it has, but I hadn't realised you thought those were the times we should be trying to re-create. Bit surely we want improving living standards, not regression to worse living standards. You'd never make a politician, you don't have Churchill's way with words. What was it he said? Ah yes, "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat". Great Brexit sales pitch - not! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-12-19 6:57 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-19 3:48 PM...…………………..Has Britain NOT been through worse times than leaving a club that we were never really a member of? ;-) ................. Of course it has, but I hadn't realised you thought those were the times we should be trying to re-create. Bit surely we want improving living standards, not regression to worse living standards. You'd never make a politician, you don't have Churchill's way with words. What was it he said? Ah yes, "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat". Great Brexit sales pitch - not! :-D But I have Churchill's standards B-) ....... Europe should have united nations ;-) ...... It should NOT include us B-) ........ Have you not noticed Brian?.......Great Britain will never be anything but Great Britain B-) ....... In our life time........ and its got a history I'm more than proud of >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 19, 2018 Author Share Posted December 19, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-19 9:19 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-12-19 6:57 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-19 3:48 PM...…………………..Has Britain NOT been through worse times than leaving a club that we were never really a member of? ;-) ................. Of course it has, but I hadn't realised you thought those were the times we should be trying to re-create. Bit surely we want improving living standards, not regression to worse living standards. You'd never make a politician, you don't have Churchill's way with words. What was it he said? Ah yes, "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat". Great Brexit sales pitch - not! :-D But I have Churchill's standards B-) ....... Europe should have united nations ;-) ...... It should NOT include us B-) ........ and its got a history I'm more than proud of >:-) ......... Which goes to show your total ignorance of history. Both Churchill and Roosevelt drafted the United Nations Declaration in 1942 with 26 governments signing to it and a further 21 by 1945. UK was just one of those 47 countries. Your imagined 'pride' is somewhat skewed and devoid of historical knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-12-19 10:26 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-19 9:19 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-12-19 6:57 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-19 3:48 PM...…………………..Has Britain NOT been through worse times than leaving a club that we were never really a member of? ;-) ................. Of course it has, but I hadn't realised you thought those were the times we should be trying to re-create. Bit surely we want improving living standards, not regression to worse living standards. You'd never make a politician, you don't have Churchill's way with words. What was it he said? Ah yes, "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat". Great Brexit sales pitch - not! :-D But I have Churchill's standards B-) ....... Europe should have united nations ;-) ...... It should NOT include us B-) ........ and its got a history I'm more than proud of >:-) ......... Which goes to show your total ignorance of history. Both Churchill and Roosevelt drafted the United Nations Declaration in 1942 with 26 governments signing to it and a further 21 by 1945. UK was just one of those 47 countries. Your imagined 'pride' is somewhat skewed and devoid of historical knowledge. "Where do we stand?’ Churchill asked the Commons in 1952: We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition ‘with’ but not ‘of’ — we are with them, but not of them." https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/churchill-was-all-in-favour-of-a-united-europe-as-long-as-it-didnt-include-britain/ Shot down again Bullet :D ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-20 7:15 AM Bulletguy - 2018-12-19 10:26 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-19 9:19 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-12-19 6:57 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-19 3:48 PM...…………………..Has Britain NOT been through worse times than leaving a club that we were never really a member of? ;-) ................. Of course it has, but I hadn't realised you thought those were the times we should be trying to re-create. Bit surely we want improving living standards, not regression to worse living standards. You'd never make a politician, you don't have Churchill's way with words. What was it he said? Ah yes, "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat". Great Brexit sales pitch - not! :-D But I have Churchill's standards B-) ....... Europe should have united nations ;-) ...... It should NOT include us B-) ........ and its got a history I'm more than proud of >:-) ......... Which goes to show your total ignorance of history. Both Churchill and Roosevelt drafted the United Nations Declaration in 1942 with 26 governments signing to it and a further 21 by 1945. UK was just one of those 47 countries. Your imagined 'pride' is somewhat skewed and devoid of historical knowledge. "Where do we stand?’ Churchill asked the Commons in 1952: We are not members of the European Defence Community, nor do we intend to be merged in a Federal European system. We feel we have a special relation to both. This can be expressed by prepositions, by the preposition ‘with’ but not ‘of’ — we are with them, but not of them." https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/churchill-was-all-in-favour-of-a-united-europe-as-long-as-it-didnt-include-britain/ Shot down again Bullet :D ........... Choosing to quote from a politically biased right wing Conservative rag was hardly a good idea and fails to change indisputable historical facts re the United Nations Declaration in 1942.....something you are in denial of. When you can show me Churchill never drafted or helped form that declaration, you might have something but until then, you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-19 9:19 PM But I have Churchill's standards B-) ....... Europe should have united nations ;-) ...... It should NOT include us B-) ........ Have you not noticed Brian?.......Great Britain will never be anything but Great Britain B-) ....... In our life time........ and its got a history I'm more than proud of >:-) ......... Yet again, I'm afraid, you miss the point Dave. I said you don't have Churchill's way with words, not that he was invariably right. He wasn't, but you seem to have air brushed that bit of "history" from your rose-tinted view. Gallipoli and the return to the gold standard to name but two. However, on balance, he got more right than wrong, and what he got right was of greater significance than what he got wrong. No-one can be right all the time, especially at that level. But it was his ability as an orator and writer that I was referring to, not his judgements, fallible or otherwise. In those fields he had few equals, IMO. Which is why I made the (admittedly unfair) contrast. :-D Oh yes, and re "Great Britain", the "Great" bit doesn't refer to Britain's political or military status, it identifies the largest island among those originally inhabited by the Britons. As you're a student of history I feel I should also point out that the Britons were migrants from Europe, (the Brythonic Celts) and the islands were first recorded as Britain by the Greeks, and later the Romans. So, they've been European from their inhabited beginnings! Funny that, ain't it? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-12-19 9:19 PM Europe should have united nations ;-) ...... It should NOT include us B-) ........ . I agree that a UN type format along the lines of NATO with every country contibuting to it according to their means might well be a better bet than the present format EU, but the UK should most definitely be a major part of it. In Europe but not in the EU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-12-20 3:18 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-19 9:19 PM But I have Churchill's standards B-) ....... Europe should have united nations ;-) ...... It should NOT include us B-) ........ Have you not noticed Brian?.......Great Britain will never be anything but Great Britain B-) ....... In our life time........ and its got a history I'm more than proud of >:-) ......... As you're a student of history I feel I should also point out that the Britons were migrants from Europe, (the Brythonic Celts) and the islands were first recorded as Britain by the Greeks, and later the Romans. So, they've been European from their inhabited beginnings! Funny that, ain't it? :-D Oh dear.......you'll be giving him a coronary and manic depression!! IF he reads that he'll go into meltdown!! (lol)(lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-12-20 3:18 PM I feel I should also point out that the Britons were migrants from Europe, (the Brythonic Celts) and the islands were first recorded as Britain by the Greeks, and later the Romans. So, they've been European from their inhabited beginnings! Funny that, ain't it? :-D Absolutely right Brian and as the founders of modern Europe Brits should be leading the EU not kowtowing to lesser but more pretentious mortals who may well lack our pedigree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Tracker - 2018-12-20 5:36 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-12-20 3:18 PM I feel I should also point out that the Britons were migrants from Europe, (the Brythonic Celts) and the islands were first recorded as Britain by the Greeks, and later the Romans. So, they've been European from their inhabited beginnings! Funny that, ain't it? :-D Absolutely right Brian and as the founders of modern Europe Brits should be leading the EU not kowtowing to lesser but more pretentious mortals who may well lack our pedigree! Good idea Rich. You have to be in it to win it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-12-20 5:32 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-12-20 3:18 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-19 9:19 PM But I have Churchill's standards B-) ....... Europe should have united nations ;-) ...... It should NOT include us B-) ........ Have you not noticed Brian?.......Great Britain will never be anything but Great Britain B-) ....... In our life time........ and its got a history I'm more than proud of >:-) ......... As you're a student of history I feel I should also point out that the Britons were migrants from Europe, (the Brythonic Celts) and the islands were first recorded as Britain by the Greeks, and later the Romans. So, they've been European from their inhabited beginnings! Funny that, ain't it? :-D Oh dear.......you'll be giving him a coronary and manic depression!! IF he reads that he'll go into meltdown!! (lol)(lol) I know, but I couldn't resist, could I? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-12-20 6:23 PM Bulletguy - 2018-12-20 5:32 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-12-20 3:18 PM pelmetman - 2018-12-19 9:19 PM But I have Churchill's standards B-) ....... Europe should have united nations ;-) ...... It should NOT include us B-) ........ Have you not noticed Brian?.......Great Britain will never be anything but Great Britain B-) ....... In our life time........ and its got a history I'm more than proud of >:-) ......... As you're a student of history I feel I should also point out that the Britons were migrants from Europe, (the Brythonic Celts) and the islands were first recorded as Britain by the Greeks, and later the Romans. So, they've been European from their inhabited beginnings! Funny that, ain't it? :-D Oh dear.......you'll be giving him a coronary and manic depression!! IF he reads that he'll go into meltdown!! (lol)(lol) I know, but I couldn't resist, could I? :-D He'll probably use it to support his newly found 'allegiance' to the EU for his 'temporary residency' in the EU he voted to come out of, but now want's to be 'in' to get around the 90 day he voted for. Possible non-resident UK and loss of NHS access springs to mind here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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