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CI CARIOCA 5 WEIGHT DETAILS
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usercornishboy
Posted: 26 January 2016 9:44 PM
Subject: CI CARIOCA 5 WEIGHT DETAILS
 
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Posts: 4



I am new to the forum and to MH'ing in the UK (toured around North America & Canada in one years ago so not a complete novice). 

We have just purchased a 2006 Ci Carioca 5 6 berth with the 2.3jtd engine. I am struggling to find a definitive max weight for it. The VIN under the bonnet says 3300kg, which I understand as being the original chassis details but I cannot find a CI makers plate anywhere to say what CI rated the MH at once converted. I have read 3500kg on some sites but obviously want to make sure.

If anyone has one of these and can point me as to where the makers plate may be or tell me what that says that'd be great. Hopefully you can see this pic to see what the van looks like



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userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 27 January 2016 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: CI CARIOCA 5 WEIGHT DETAILS
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Welcome to the Out&AbutLive forums, Charles.

I notice that you’ve also asked about this on the MHFun forum

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/ci-carioca-5-weight-info.123666/

but no definitive answer to your question has yet been provided.

As you’ve observed, it’s far from easy to pin down the MTPLM (Maximum Technically Permitted Laden Mass) of your CI Carioca 5 motorhome and what information I have that could relate to the model (plus data in on-line adverts) suggests MTPLM figures of 3300kg, 3400kg or 3500kg might apply.

However, there is some hope, as this 2010 forum inquiry about a 2006 CI motorhome

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/What-Taxation-Class/20175/

suggests (in the 9 July 2010 5:57 PM posting from “coach2000") that - in addition to the under-bonnet VIN-plate you are aware of - one of the cab foot-wells (I’m guessing the driver’s-side foot-well) might have in it a silver adhesive-label that carries weight-data provided by the motorhome converter. This label may be marked “Trigano” (the commercial group that CI was part of).

If you can’t find a label in either of the cab foot-wells, look on the cab door-pillars, on the cab seat-bases and in the habitation entrance-door’s foot-well.

Happy hunting...



Edited by Derek Uzzell 2016-01-27 9:11 AM
userRandonneur
Posted: 27 January 2016 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: CI CARIOCA 5 WEIGHT DETAILS
 


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Posts: 2223
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Location: Cheshire, 2003 VW T4 Crusader Campervan


We have recently uprated ours from 3300kgs to 3500kgs. The main thing is, what does your V5 say. If it says 3300kgs then that is what it is. You have then to decide if you want to go the uprating route. It wasn't difficult. If it says 3500kgs then again that is what it is.
usercornishboy
Posted: 27 January 2016 1:04 PM
Subject: RE: CI CARIOCA 5 WEIGHT DETAILS
 
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Derek

Many thanks for taking the time to post such a comprehensive reply.

I have checked within the cab and habitation area but to no avail. I will have another sanity check just to make sure however.

If I find anything I will post its location
usercornishboy
Posted: 27 January 2016 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: CI CARIOCA 5 WEIGHT DETAILS
 
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Randonneur

Thanks for your reply. The V5 hasn't returned from DVLA yet but will check when it does. The original one that the seller had didn't have the weights on it.

What did you have to do to get it uprated and what was the rough costs?
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 27 January 2016 2:06 PM
Subject: RE: CI CARIOCA 5 WEIGHT DETAILS
 


500050005000200020005001001001002525
Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Randonnneur

Unfortunately it’s not that simple...

There’s no certainty (particularly where an older vehicle is involved) that a motorhome’s V5C registration document will carry an MPTLM figure, neither is there any guarantee that if the DVLA is provided with an MTPLM figure it will be the right one, nor - even if the correct MTPLM weight is given to the DVLA - that the DVLA will record that figure correctly.

This link

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/302251/vls-notes-and-definitions.pdf

includes the following statement

“...All remaining light goods vehicle taxation classes were also abolished and vehicles in those groups transferred to the PLG class. At the same time, the basis for calculation of excise duty for goods vehicles was amended to “revenue weight”. Revenue weight means either “confirmed maximum gross weight” as determined by plating and testing regulations, or “design weight” for vehicles not subject to plating and testing (formerly known as Restricted HGVs).”

If a motorhome’s V5C carries a MTPLM datum, that figure should be shown on the “(Y) Revenue weight” line in “4. Vehicle details” section. But it should be evident from this 2009 MHFacts discussion

http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/49-tech-mech-chat/55906-revenue-weight-v5c.html

that, even if there is a weight-figure on the Revenue-weight line, it may be wrong.

As the DVLA apparently advised the MHFacts thread’s original poster “rayc”, it’s the vehicle’s plated weight (normally, for a motorhome, the MTPLM figure on the motorhome converter’s data-plate or data-sticker) that will ‘legally’ count where MTPLM is concerned, not what’s on the V5C.

It’s well known that motorhomes can end up in an incorrect UK ‘tax’ class as a result of a wrong MTPLM being provided to the DVLA, or because the DVLA makes a mistake, but that’s another matter altogether.

If Charles can’t locate a CI data-plate/sticker and there’s no plausible weight-datum on the V5C that is coming back to him from the DVLA, it might be practicable to confirm his Carioca’s ex-CI-factory weight-data by contacting Auto-Trail who would have been managing CI motorhome importing in 2006. But, even then - if the CI figures proved tobe different from those on the Fiat VIN-plate, he’d still need to obtain a CI plate/sticker carrying the revised figures.

It’s possible (though I’m doubtful) that his Carioca was marketed by CI with the same weight maxima shown on its under-bonnet Fiat VIN-plate and there was thus no need to add a converter’s plate/sticker. But, at present, it’s the Fiat VIN-plate figures that count.
userRandonneur
Posted: 27 January 2016 3:37 PM
Subject: RE: CI CARIOCA 5 WEIGHT DETAILS
 


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Posts: 2223
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Location: Cheshire, 2003 VW T4 Crusader Campervan


Derek Uzzell - 2016-01-27 2:06 PM

Randonnneur

Unfortunately it’s not that simple...

There’s no certainty (particularly where an older vehicle is involved) that a motorhome’s V5C registration document will carry an MPTLM figure, neither is there any guarantee that if the DVLA is provided with an MTPLM figure it will be the right one, nor - even if the correct MTPLM weight is given to the DVLA - that the DVLA will record that figure correctly.




Didn't know that Derek, thought that all motorhome V5s had their vehicle maximum weights quoted.

Edited by Randonneur 2016-01-27 3:37 PM
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 27 January 2016 6:11 PM
Subject: RE: CI CARIOCA 5 WEIGHT DETAILS
 


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Location: MODERATOR - 2015 Rapido 640F LHD 2.3ltr 150bhp


Charles

This recent forum thread discussing MTPLM uprating should be helpful for you.

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Companies-who-uprate-a-motorhome/40213/

If you can’t find a CI weight-plate anywhere on your Carioca and you anticipate that the 3300kg limit on the Fiat VIN-plate will be restrictive (which it could well be given the Carioca 5’s design), it might be strategically sensible not to bother trying to get hold of a CI plate - which might show no or little improvement over the 3300kg figure - and go directly from 3300kg to 3500kg by uprating.

If JR Consultancy’s price for your Carioca is around £140, this would be cheap enough to obtain a useful 200kg MTPLM increase.




Edited by Derek Uzzell 2016-01-27 6:13 PM
usercornishboy
Posted: 28 January 2016 11:23 AM
Subject: RE: CI CARIOCA 5 WEIGHT DETAILS
 
Just joined

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Derek

Many thanks, I'll check it out.
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