Brian Kirby Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Our van has CBE electrics which includes the above. Last week while on a campsite, on EHU, we noticed that the fridge was heavily iced and well below 0C. A quick glance at the fridge controls revealed that I had not switched it from 12V to 230V when we arrived. So, despite the engine being off and the 230V connected, the fridge had continued to run on 12V power, which, of course, should not have been possible. I also checked the battery readouts on the control panel (with the 230V power still on), and noticed that both habitation battery and starter battery went immediately to the 100% charged state. This would have been normal for the habitation battery on EHU, but not the starter battery (maintenance charge only). I also became aware of an unusual noise which I eventually traced to the CB516 charger (installed under the dinette floor, so easy to access - not! :-)) which was running a bit warm. I think that the separator relay, that is supposed to open when the engine is stopped, has probably welded its contacts together so that both starter and habitation batteries are permanently connected, meaning that when the mains connection was established the charger not only began charging the batteries but also, through the batteries, supplying the fridge 12V circuit with its 10A load. Good thing the CB516 has a maximum 16A output, I think! That is my reasoning but before I delve into the innards of the DS300 to change that relay, does anyone have any alternative ideas as to possible cause? The fridge seems unaffected, as does the CB516. But if I'm right and both are connected in parallel, so that the 14.3V (gel) charging output of the CB516 is being fed to both, I'm a mite concerned that the AGM habitation battery may not like this, and that the normal 13.5V maintenance charge to the starter battery is now presumably 14.3V, which it may not like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-10-23 5:27 PM ...I also checked the battery readouts on the control panel (with the 230V power still on), and noticed that both habitation battery and starter battery went immediately to the 100% charged state. This would have been normal for the habitation battery on EHU, but not the starter battery (maintenance charge only).... Which control-panel does your Knaus have? My Rapido has a DS300 distribution box, a CB516 charger and a PC180 control-panel (image attached below). When I connect to an EHU, if I check the readout on the PC180 for the habitation and starter batteries, the readout for each battery is the same (ie. with four green vertical bars to the right). As far as I’m concerned, those readouts do not indicate the batteries’ state of charge, they just show that both batteries are being provided with the charger’s maximum voltage. After some time the readout for the starter battery may show three green bars, indicating (or suggesting) that the voltage being delivered to it has now reduced. (I just mention this, as what you’ve otherwise described does not sound right.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 23, 2019 Author Share Posted October 23, 2019 PC110 Derek. Yes, I'm aware that the read outs are recording the charger outputs, but hitherto have noted that the starter battery generally hovers about one graduation above the max, while the hab battery goes to max. I've taken that as indicating that the charge rate to the starter battery is lower, as it is intended to be, so when both showed the same charge rate, took that to mean the starter battery was now getting the full, hab battery, charge rate - which reinforced in my mind that the two batteries had not been separated by the charging relay when the engine was stopped, as should have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted October 23, 2019 Share Posted October 23, 2019 Brian, I missed your post due to contributing to another thread. The CBE DSxxx distribution boards use a simulated D+ to control the split charge and fridge relays. From a study of published photos, I have deduced that the fridge relay is connected on the habitation battery (B2) side of the split charge relay. The simulated D+ signal is derived from an ignition switch controlled supply. It is I believe monitored by an integrated circuit (operational amplifier) on the DSxxx, and operates a small rectangular relay. The contacts of this relay control the split charge and fridge relays. The same output is made available at FA4 for satellite dishes etc. This is a useful test point. Another function of the same rectangular (DIL) relay is to control any awning light (off with engine running), this from the NC contact. I suggest checking that the ignition switch controlled supply has not remained live. On the DS300 the 12V supply for the simulated D+ is connected via the upper pin of the two pole connector immediately above the M6 negative stud. (Possibly a blue wire.) The other wire on the connector, possibly white, is the "S" signal from the battery charger. Pulling the connector should release both split charge and fridge relays. I would be interested to learn the eventual diagnosis. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 Thanks Alan. Is my understanding correct, that the split charge relay closes when it "sees" the simulated D+ signal, and should open again (N/O) as the D+ signal dies when the ignition (or possibly when the alternator output) is cut? If so, as the fridge seems to be taking 12V power from both habitation and starter batteries after the ignition is off, isn't a failed split charge relay (contacts welded shut) the likely culprit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 ...if we ignore the displayed vehicle battery state of charge as a byproduct of the failure (it seems likely, but if you had been travelling or charging for some time it should have been high anyway) then there are a couple of extra things you might want to consider. I think your 'van had the three-way, rather than the compressor fridge now fitted as standard? 1. Is it an AES fridge? If so, I think the conventional wiring is to bypass the isolating relay in the DS300 provided for manual fridges (and use a separately provided AES connection). I understand you were switching manually, but this doesn't eliminate the presence of an AES fridge being used manually. If this is so, and this is the first time you have forgotten to switch over then there is a chance that this is "as designed" and the fridge has simply continued to run off the leisure battery (I'm pretty sure that if mine is left to its own devices on "Auto" it will automatically switch, but if manually set to 12V, then it will not switch when the vehicle ignition signal is removed and remain connected to 12V!) 2. If it is a manual fridge, has it erroneously been wired to the wrong (AES) terminal in the DS300? As above, this would leave it permanently attached to 12V, regardless of ignition, and the fridge switch (to other than 12V) is the only thing that would change this. I'm pretty sure the fridge is connected across the leisure battery by the DS300. The current draw for the fridge is (as you have noted) substantial, and either of these scenarios would put the charger under significant load, for as long as the fridge were turned on, as the battery would be under some pressure. Edited to add: In item 2, I don't actually think it's a separate terminal; I think a jumper is used across two connections in one of the blocks to bypass the D+ relay function for an AES fridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 24, 2019 Author Share Posted October 24, 2019 Hi Bob, and thanks. Re 1, no, VERY manual, which is how I came to leave it on 12V after we'd stopped. Re2, AFAIK, it had worked as it should until the time I left the dial in 12V after stopping, when the fridge continued to draw 12V current while on EHU and with the engine off. This was within a few days of the end of our trip, and there had been no signs of the 12V, 230V or gas functions not working up to that point - though there are no warning lights on the fridge fascia, so no way of telling whether the two batteries had separated previously, or at what time they might have failed to do so. It could have been wrong from delivery, but I doubt it, as it has worked as it should up until that point. If it is the AES terminals you are referring to, yes, they are a bridge on the DS300, and the interconnecting wire is not present, so this is not a manual fridge wired as for AES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 Brian, I am sorry that it may seem that I had ignored your query. Unfortunately it seems that in using the preview facility, I managed to lose a detailed posting. You have confirmed to Robinhood that you have a manual fridge. For a manual 3 way fridge to draw current from both batteries, it would require both the split charge relay and the fridge relay to be welded or remain operated. AFAIK these relays are operated in parallel from a Shrack / TE connectivity Power PCB Relay RT1. (One of the pair at the top lhs of the PCB below the fuses.) This relay is the output of the voltage monitoring circuit. The other relay of the same type controls the water pump. As it seems unlikely that you have two relays welded closed, I think that it would be worth checking the simulated D+ circuitry. The output may be checked at blade terminal FA4 about half way down the RHS side of the DS300 PCB. If you have 12V at FA4 with the ignition OFF, that would indicate a fault. To work backwards try disconnecting the two pole connector situated above the negative stud. Possibly has white and blue wires. ( If my memory serves me well, the upper (blue) wire is the input from the ignition switch, and the white wire is the "S" signal from the charger.) Pulling this connector will ensure that there is no false input at this point. A possible further test would be to check for battery voltage difference between B1 +ve, and B2 +ve terminal studs. If you are able to confirm faulty relay(s), it is possible to read the type numbers on the relays and Google them, alternatively I have the PDF files on my laptop. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 25, 2019 Author Share Posted October 25, 2019 Thank you Alan, and please don't apologise - we all respond to queries as, and when, we can, and I expect nothing more. :-) Thank you for your further comments. At present the van is on our drive, with the fridge off, on EHU. Would it be wiser to disconnect the EHU pro tem? Also, would it be desirable to disconnect either/both batteries in the meantime, as the starter is flooded lead-acid, but the habitation battery is an AGM. I am a little concerned that, at present (on the assumption that both are connected via the split charge relay), both are being charged by the charger, which is set to gel (the only available alternative to lead-acid)? The installation is still narrowly within warranty, so I have been reluctant to make any interventions, but wish to take whatever action I can to eliminate, as far as possible, consequential damage. I'm happy to swap out a relay or two and, as the nearest Knaus dealer is 50 miles from home, I'd prefer to do that than hang around while they evaluate, and fix, the problem - unless the work is likely to be sufficiently extensive to make the journey worthwhile! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Have you checked the starter battery voltage with it on EHU? If the charger is anything like our EBL99 the starter battery will not be overly high if the relay is working OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Brian, The specification for the CBE 516 gives the GEL setting as 14.3 / 13.8V, and the FLA setting as 14.1 / 13.5V. If you are concerned about overcharging your FLA starter battery, you could select "Pb - Acido" on the charger as a temporary measure. However access problems excepted, the checks that I suggested are relatively simple to perform when compared with completely removing the DS300 PCB and replacing relays. I am still inclined to wonder whether your symptoms are due to a problem with the ACC + input signal staying high due to a wiring fault. Colin, The arrangements for charging the starter battery in the Schaudt and CBE systems are very similar. The presence of a blocking diode in series with a current limiting thermistor result in the starter battery floating about 0.6V lower than the habitation battery. However Brian is concerned that his split charge relay may have welded contacts. This means that the starter battery charging circuit is bypassed, and the full charger output voltage is applied to the starter battery. The big difference between the two systems is that Schaudt use a D+ signal, or a substitute supplied from the ECU. CBE electronically monitor an ignition switch controlled (ACC+) supply, to generate a simulated D+ signal. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Alanb - 2019-10-25 8:00 PM Colin, The arrangements for charging the starter battery in the Schaudt and CBE systems are very similar. The presence of a blocking diode in series with a current limiting thermistor result in the starter battery floating about 0.6V lower than the habitation battery. However Brian is concerned that his split charge relay may have welded contacts. This means that the starter battery charging circuit is bypassed, and the full charger output voltage is applied to the starter battery. Alan This is why I asked if he had checked the starter battery voltage when on EHU, if it's lower than the leisure battery then the relay is not welded shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-10-25 6:03 PM ...I'm happy to swap out a relay or two and, as the nearest Knaus dealer is 50 miles from home, I'd prefer to do that than hang around while they evaluate, and fix, the problem - unless the work is likely to be sufficiently extensive to make the journey worthwhile! In the past I’ve come across comments on French motorhome forums about replacing failed relays in CBE Distribution Boxes and I vaguely recall it being said that the relays are soldered on to the PCB not just ‘ plugged in’. This is touched on in this 2013 MHFacts thread https://forums.motorhomefacts.com/182-electrical/115416-cbe-distribution-panel-problems.html Me, I’d confirm what voltage the starter-battery is receiving (as Colin advises), but I’d disconnect from the EHU in any case on a better-safe-than-sorry basis. Why does your Knaus need to be continuously on EHU at the moment, particularly when it’s known there is an electrical issue? Unless the problem is identified as being outside the DS300 Box, I’d expect the ‘fix’ to involve complete replacement of the DS300 rather than a repair being attempted. There’s also the matter of whether the DS300 Box is bespoke (ie. is peculiar to Knaus) or off-the-shelf. You’d be wise to invoke the Knaus warranty even though it irks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Possibly because I have taken a particular interest in MH electrics, I have mistalkenly assumed that the construction of PCB based distribution boards was generally appreciated among experienced, technically minded, MH owners. I confirm that on the CBE DSxxx boards, all relays are soldered to the board. This fact underlies my suggestions to make relativly simple checks, to prove that the fault on Brian's MH is actually on the DS300. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 Thank you all for your advice. I explored the insides of the DS300 this morning, and discovered that there is nothing inside that I can recognise as a split charge (or any other) relay! The most likely candidate seems to me far too small for a mechanical relay, and does indeed appear to be soldered to the PC board. So, I shall have to refer the fault to the dealer for investigation under warranty at the same time as the damp check is carried out. No-one in workshop today, so that's for Monday. And yes, this is a DS300-KN, so presumably has some internal tweaks for Knaus. Derek, the CBE charger claims to charge in 4 stages, the final stage being to switch the charge off until the battery voltage falls to 13V, at which point it re-commences its charging cycle. It supplies a separate, "maintenance", charge to the starter battery, and it is for that charge that I generally leave the van on mains when not in use. I have "pulled" the 50A fuse at the habitation battery to separate (I hope!) this from both charger and starter battery. I'll try again to contact one of the technicians on Monday to see if they advise otherwise. I checked voltage from both batteries between the B1 and B2 and GND terminals inside the DS300 this morning with the charger on, and off, just to confirm there was something that looked "normal" available, and both seemed OK (but I didn't note either reading). I then pulled the 50A fuse on the hab. battery, which dropped the B1 battery voltage to 0V as I expected, but puzzlingly showed about 0.25V for B2. I assumed this meant that there was some blocking mechanism to prevent the habitation side taking power from the starter battery, but was by then out of my depth so closed the DS300, turned the charger back on, and left - as that seemed the safest course! I can generally understand what is going on if I can see and trace the wiring, and can see a conventional relay with its numbered terminals and switching diagram. The inside of the DS300 is nowhere of that ilk, so doing nothing seemed safer than experimental probing! Thank you all once again. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 Brian, Unless I'm misunderstanding something, I'm not sure this isn't being over-complicated. I'm with AlanB that it is unlikely that both the battery separator and the fridge relay are both "stuck". (At least it is my understanding following PCE block diagrams that these are separate,with separate functions, and you have confirmed that the fridge is not erroneously "bridged") A faulty input signal is in any case more likely than a coincidence of the two other issues. But.....I'm still pretty sure that your symptoms, at least as described, can be produced by a failure of the fridge relay alone (a situation with which I am not unfamiliar). We are pretty sure that the fridge (which probably won't be thermostatically controlled on 12V) is being over-cooled, on 12V, whilst stationary and on EHU. To achieve this, the fridge relay must be (erroneously) closed and, as it is wired across the leisure battery, this will deplete that battery. Accordingly the charger will cut in and keep the leisure battery permanently on (heavy) charge.The charger will then also maintain permanent trickle charging (same voltage but constrained current) to the vehicle battery. So, those circumstances give permanent running of the charger (and under that demand, probably with the fan permanently on) to meet the fridge demand. As a corollary, there will be permanent charging of both batteries at the same, elevated voltage. My understanding is that the control panel will measure the voltage at the respective batteries (regardless of charge current at each) and under charge, these should be the same. Off charge, the standing reading for each battery may well be different - fully-charged AGM leisure batteries, bolstered by my experience, generally show a higher standing voltage than lead-acid when left dormant for some time. The battery separator doesn't need to be involved in this scenario (indeed, AIUI, it is required only to provide services when the alternator is running - though I suspect the fridge relay, when working, may actually be switched by the same simulated signal used to parallel the batteries) I'd be inclined to simply remove the fridge fuse, and leave it on EHU. (Switching the fridge off will probably have the same effect, but the fuse removal leaves no doubts). That will avoid the fridge being cooled (even if indeed it is a stuck fridge relay), and that in turn should stop the demand on the leisure battery which is causing the charger to run continuously. After the defined point in the charge cycle, the charger, being CBE, should then turn off until the leisure battery voltage drops back to the switch-in level. Somewhat between the charger switching out, then in, you might want to check the battery states, as the vehicle battery may then show slightly lower standing voltage than the leisure one. Incidentally, most CBE control panels carry an indicator that lights when the battery separator has connected the batteries (i.e. with the engine running). It would be interesting to know if this lights when the engine is switched on, and extinguishes when it is turned off. Whilst not conclusive, if it functions as expected I'd be less likely to suspect the separator function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 26, 2019 Author Share Posted October 26, 2019 Robinhood - 2019-10-26 2:07 PM Brian,..........................................… I'd be inclined to simply remove the fridge fuse, and leave it on EHU. (Switching the fridge off will probably have the same effect, but the fuse removal leaves no doubts). That will avoid the fridge being cooled (even if indeed it is a stuck fridge relay), and that in turn should stop the demand on the leisure battery which is causing the charger to run continuously. After the defined point in the charge cycle, the charger, being CBE, should then turn off until the leisure battery voltage drops back to the switch-in level. Somewhat between the charger switching out, then in, you might want to check the battery states, as the vehicle battery may then show slightly lower standing voltage than the leisure one. Incidentally, most CBE control panels carry an indicator that lights when the battery separator has connected the batteries (i.e. with the engine running). It would be interesting to know if this lights when the engine is switched on, and extinguishes when it is turned off. Whilst not conclusive, if it functions as expected I'd be less likely to suspect the separator function. Thanks for this Bob. The fridge has now been turned off for a week, and is showing no indication of trying to cool, so I assume there is no power getting to the 12V element. The charger is no longer running warm, and the habitation battery is isolated via removal of its main fuse. Also, the control panel indication that both batteries are charging is not lit - though with the fuse removed that seems most unlikely. The inside of the DS300 is all PCB fed, and all the items that might be relays (or whatever their solid state equivalents are called) are all soldered in place, so I'm snookered on that score alone, and double snookered as I can't in any case identify which bits do what! So I've chucked in the towel and referred the problem to the dealer, who will do the necessary damp check in November, to see what he can do under warranty. I've also discovered a few puzzling characteristics that have cropped up with the all electronic control panel (CBE PC110-KN), which also need proper evaluation, so I've added them to the list. My thanks again to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 26, 2019 Share Posted October 26, 2019 I certainly wasn't counselling a DIY fix, Brian, especially as the thing is in warranty. It was simply that a bit of diagnosis might provide confirmation of a reasonably simple cause. The welded AES fridge relay that I diagnosed for a friend some time ago was also PCB mounted (though possibly more accessible once the PCB had been removed from the fridge). Logical diagnosis was the hard part; identification of the suspect component is usually then relatively easy on examination of the PCB. Though I identified it, and managed to source a replacement, I wasn't up to replacing it without a solder pump to ease removal of the existing relay. (Even though it was years out of warranty). Luckily, my friend found someone who would do it for "a drink". Having now discovered another friend has such a pump, I wouldn't hesitate to try DIY now, but only in the case where a replacement was expensive or difficult to source, and definitely not if it were in warranty ;-) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Brian, I appreciate that you are now referring your problem to your dealer, however building from Robinhood's suggestions I have a niggling thought that I would like put forward for the benefit of others. You have established that the link for AES fridges has not been fitted, but is the fridge 12V power taken from the correct connector pin so that it is switched by the fridge relay? It seems to me that if any 3 way manual fridge was connected to an uncontrolled 12V supply, the error could pass unnoticed in normal use. It would only show up, when as happened in your case, the fridge is inadvertantly left selected to 12V after driving. Robinhood, You have suggested that the fridge is not thermostatically controlled when running on 12V. This used to be the case, but the manual for my Dometis 7xxx series fridge clearly suggests using the temperature control knob when selected to 12V supply. (Clause 5.2.2.2 if I remember correctly.) Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Alan, my initial thoughts when asking about the connection and the link were focussed around there not being a fault which had spontaneously ocurred, but an error that had been there from scratch. If it was the first time Brian had failed to make the switch from 12V to 230V it would not have been noticed before. Indeed, as Brian normally uses sites and EHU, even a prior occurrence might not have been noticed in higher ambient temperatures (since the fridge would have been less likely to overcool, and the leisure battery would ultimately still be being charged (albeit at a reduced rate, but probably enough to maintain it)). As for the 12V thermostatic control, yes, though historically fridges weren't thus controlled on 12V, practice has now changed with some Dometic fridges (I'm not sure with Thetford), but the Dometic 5xxx series is still uncontrolled on 12V. I'm not sure which fridge Brian has (if Dometic, a 5xxx series wouldn't surprise me, given the size and layout his 'van) but I find it difficult to rationalise the "overcooling" if thermostatic control is in fact present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Alanb - 2019-10-27 9:08 AM You have established that the link for AES fridges has not been fitted, but is the fridge 12V power taken from the correct connector pin so that it is switched by the fridge relay? Alan It's not easy to ascertain the pinouts for all the connections on the DS300, but my best advised guess is that that both conventional and AES fridges should be wired to pins 2 and 3 on the block marked "15", and for AES fridges the separate "bridge" should be applied to bypass the included fridge relay, and instead pass full control to the AES electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted October 27, 2019 Share Posted October 27, 2019 Robin. I can only partly agree with your statement "It's not easy to ascertain the pinouts for all the connections on the DS300". I have a downloaded copy of a DS300 manual, which originated from Marcle Leisure. Page 15 clearly shows the required detail with reference to the diagram attached above by you. However, you are correct that connector 15, pins 2 & 3 are designated for the fridge 12V power. If the fridge is correctly connected, it should be protected by fuse 6 in the above diagram, as well as being controlled by the fridge relay. (Perhaps the connector for which I would like to ascertain the pin allocation is number 17, for the control panel.) Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 Robinhood - 2019-10-27 10:11 AM......………………...I'm not sure which fridge Brian has (if Dometic, a 5xxx series wouldn't surprise me, given the size and layout his 'van) but I find it difficult to rationalise the "overcooling" if thermostatic control is in fact present. The fridge is Dometic RM5380, so, as stated above, VERY basic. The handbook confirms no thermostatic control on 12V operation. Yes, other than for brief periods (such as "comfort" stops etc), the fridge was always switched to gas or 230V operation once the engine was off, so it was, and is, not clear whether this defect is attributable to an initial wiring/component fault (though this should have been identified via someone's QA!), or whether it has developed in use. We've spent about 17 weeks in the van since getting it in December 2017, and this was the first indication that it continued to draw 12V power with the engine stopped. On this occasion, I think the fridge must have remained on 12V power for about 17 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Brian, Check and see if your awning light works with the engine running (should not work) Check that no wiring is melted at Connection block (14) white 19 pins and Connection block(15) white 6 pins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 27, 2019 Author Share Posted November 27, 2019 Thanks to Southdowns, I how have the answer. While the van was in for its annual damp check, I asked of they would investigate the problem of the 12V supply to the fridge. This they did, and found that Knaus had failed to remove a link in the DS300 box - intended for the default compressor fridge - when wiring in the (optional) three way fridge supplied. It was clear this was an original installation fault, so the bill for that bit goes to Knaus! Thank you Southdowns! :-D The fridge installed is an RM 5380, which is entirely manual in operation with battery gas ignition. There are no indicator lights to show that either the 12V or 230V supplies are live. There is a visual indication, via a indicator, that the gas is lit. So, with this compressor fridge link in place, the 12V element will remain in circuit when the engine is stopped, as with a compressor fridge. That was not a possibility that had entered my thinking, so I'm doubly glad I left it to Southdowns to bottom out. Anyone with a similar van may wish to investigate the installation in theirs. It seems a little improbable that mine will be the only installation with this error. I have no detail of where the link actually link so, unless you already know its whereabouts, a little trial and error may be required. Thank you all for your contributions/suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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