longtemps Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Have to say I am very impressed with their service. Ordered a card on line and received it 4 working days later. Credit where credit is due. I am not sure that I ever believe it would arrive, but it did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 You can get cards from the automated ticket barriers. You select the option, type in your email address, pay the fee and the card drops into the tray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtemps Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 Yep, I was aware of that. However, the number of times I have read on French sites that the machines had run out of cards etc; I decided apply online and received not only the card but various stickers and a full map of locations. Great service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 If the machines are running out of cards I'd suggest a lack of attention from CCP on their sites. I got a card from the machine on the Capdenac-Gare site and it came out covered in cobwebs and muck which again suggests that they aren't servicing the site very often. When the site was free and run by the municipality the sanitary block was cleaned every day, the litter bins emptied every few days and the site tidied up. Now, it seems the pay barrier is in sole charge of the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Details of the Camping-Car Park site at Capdenac-Gare can be viewed here. https://campingcarpark.com/shop/occitanie/12-aveyron/capdenac-gare/#tab-reviews Unusually for a CCP site this ex-campsite’s toilets/showers remain operable and are open during July and August. The 11 French user-reviews of the site relate primarily to the emplacements becoming muddy in wet weather rather than the state of the toilets/howers. The sole English-language review (18 August 2018) says "Lovely clean facilities, the aire is perfect for supermarket and access to the town. Right beside the river. Very beautiful”. As I said in another recent forum posting, the expectation is that motorhomes staying on a CCP site will have their own onboard sanitary equipment and, consequently, won’t need a traditional campsite's toilet/shower- block that requires regular cleaning and maintenance. For people who prefer to use a toilet/shower-block’s facilities, the CCP scheme may well not suit. Researching the CCP website will identify criticisms of the scheme regarding lack of maintenance of sites (and/or wonky Wi-Fi) but the former has not been my (albeit limited) experience. I’ve had a fair amount of discussion with the CCP team at Pornic about their app (that supposedly will be replaced eventually) and difficulties with the Wi-Fi at CCP sites (that was to be addressed in 2019 and seems to have been happened). Certainlly, when we overnighted at the Bazouges-Cré-sur-Loir CCP site last week https://campingcarpark.com/shop/pays-de-la-loire/72-sarthe/bazouges-cre-sur-loir-le-vieux-pont/ everything was very tidy - grass cut, waste-emptying facilities clean, etc. - and the Wi-Fi worked satisfactorily. Camping-Car Park started up in 2011 and, by 2016, there were about 20 CCP sites. Now there are around 160, but it would be unrealistic to think that the CCP network ‘harms’ motorcaravanning in France, or that there will be an enormous future increase in the number of CCP sites. Municipal campsites are expensive to run and many have passed into private ownership or closed. Free ‘aires’ have their own potential problems. If the choice is between overnighting on a CCP site for a relatively small charge, or there being no campsite or aire available, then the CCP scheme makes good sense nowadays. But, if it really goes against the grain to pay for parking, it should be possible to find somewhere to stay free if you aren’t too fussy about the location or ambiance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 I think its very easy to find somewhere nice with good ambience for free with a bit of planning and research still in France. Its not it being free to me though that is the appeal of the traditional aire system or the freedom to wild camp in France its the free and easy and relaxed approach to it all that appeals to me. These CCP aires might serve a purpose as said if there is no alternative but to me they are a faff and are akin to C&MC sites back home. They are basically campsites. I just prefer to rock up somewhere (usually out in the sticks or off the beaten track a bit) park up where you like when you like and leave when you like without the hassle of barriers, cards, pitch numbers etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 A couple of year ago used one of there sites, hassle at barrier then they charged me twice. Despite a lot of emails never got my money back, I would avoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 There are a lot of excellent free aires in France especially out of season. Some of the local villages provide free electricity and the parking areas are better than aires that you pay for. Every year the Camping-Car magazine includes a free guide to French aires and each month they publish details of ten or twelve that have been newly created or refurbished. The Camping Car Park at Capdennac-Gare is worth the money as it is a nice location, the parking places are spacious and shaded and it gives me quick access to some good fishing. I don't mind paying for that, but as I said, two years ago this aire was free and with more facilities so this does impact on the camping-car scene as a whole. Every free aire lost impacts on us. The CCP at Moulismes is a complete rip-off. There are no facilities, the parking areas are side by side on tarmac with little shade for many and there are no facilities other than those that other users can access without charge. Same with the Flotte-Bleu site outside Clermont-Ferrand which is simply a tarmac car park. This is a blatant way of getting camping-car users to pay to park and has been declared discriminatory. The ruling achieved by the CLC at Poitiers now means that towns and villages can no longer stop you from parking overnight anywhere a car or lorry can park. So, if you turn up at a destination that prohibits camping-cars you can now ignore the signs as they are not lawful. At Moulismes for example you can park where the cars and lorries park andhave more space for no fee. If you have Internet access whilst mobile you can use the Park4night app to locate an aire or alternative place to park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 In your original posting on the “France - Things are a changing” forum thread https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/France-Things-are-a-Changing/51825/ you said A few months ago the organisation who look after the interests of camping-caristes have taken several municipalities to court to challenge their usage of signs banning camping-cars from certain areas. The FFCC (La Fédération des Campeurs, Caravaniers et Camping-caristes) has repeatedly and successfully challenged the legality of road-signage that discriminates against motorhomes parking in public spaces ever since I began motorcaravanning in France 20 years ago. There are plenty of references to this on the internet and the FFCC advises in these 2015 entries. https://www.ffcc.fr/etudes-de-cas/24/reclamations-stationnement/71/cas-de-panneaux-de-stationnement-interdit-pour-les-camping-cars As the FFCC warns, although prohibitory signage (examples here) https://tinyurl.com/y6qtv7lp may have no legal authority, that won’t necessarily prevent a motorcaravanner being fined for ignoring them and then having to appeal against the fine subsequently. Years ago, in early Spring, we stopped on a deserted seaside public car-park at Arcachon. There was a sign prohibiting motorhomes from overnighting and, in late-afternoon, a couple of gendarmes arrived and drew our attention to this. I said “Surely you aren’t going to concern yourself with a single motorhome overnighting on this large empty car-park?” and they said “if we find you here tonight, we’ll fine you.” I asked where they would permit us to park and the gendarmes showed us a couple of places a few hundred metres away, but the ground there was soft and I was concerned about getting bogged down. In the end we headed back towards Bordeaux, got lost and overnighted by the side of the road. As you’ve said above there is still plenty of scope in France for free motorhome parking and - although I’m a member of the CCP scheme - I’ve never felt any incentive to use a CCP site when there’s a strong chance I’ll dislike the experience. 20 years ago I used to consider it a matter of honour to never pay for parking our motorhome in France, nor to pay for motorhome ‘servicing' either. Now we overnight on car-parks, ‘aires’ and CCP sites, but mostly on ACSI campsites and I don’t count the pennies like I used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 As you say, this has been going on for some time. But the latest judgements are thought to be the turning point. The Maire of Flotte-en-Re has decided not to challenge the court's decision. Previously he had ignored the rulings. Other municipalities are removing signs rather than face court action. Hopefully the next step will be to remove the discrimination of camping-cars being made to pay for the same parking whereother vehicles are allowed to park for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Just become aware of another significant judgement: "The Liaison Committee of the motorhome wins against Thiverny Published on March 08, 2019 The CLC has just won another victory against the town of Thiverny, in the Oise, condemned by the administrative court to drop a high bar harming the parking of motorhomes. In a judgment rendered on March 5, 2019, the administrative court of Amiens decided to annul the decision of January 30, 2017 of the mayor of Thiverny (Oise) who had refused to proceed with the removal of the gantry located at the entrance of the car park located rue Jules-Uhry of his commune. By its decision, the administrative court of Amiens has just delivered to the magistrate of Thiverny an injunction to remove the gantry incriminated, within two months." Basically a height barrier to a free car park has been ordered to be removed. The crux of these recent legal actions is discrimination. In French law a camping-car under 3.5t is regarded as a car, not a goods vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 On the subject of Camping Car Parks there is a thread on a French forum: http://forum-camping-car.fr/forum/58189/boycottons-camping-car-park.html?from=1&discussionID=1298&messageID=58189&rubriqueID=18&pageprec= It seems that the founders of this company have in the past when they were running hotels been somewhat hostile towards camping-car users. Now, suddenly they want to help us spend our money with them. The five year old thread entitled Boycott Campin Car Parks runs into 24 pages :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 Some years ago, not too long after the Camping-Car Park network started out, one of the French motorhome magazines carried a multi-page article about the scheme. The article included comments from French motorcaravanners that ranged from guarded approval to “This will be the death of motorcaravanning in France as we know it!” Personally, I don’t care if the founders of CCP are poachers turned gamekeepers, and I’m quite capable of making up my own mind whether or not I should become a CCP member without needing encouragement/discouragement from other motorcaravanners. Details of the CLC/Thiverny decision are here https://tinyurl.com/y2g9jrcs This type of thing has happened before and there’s no reason to think it won’t happen again. Over the last 20 years we’ve seen the number of motorhomes being used in France increase dramatically and, as a consequence, communes becoming increasingly unhappy when motorcaravanners arrive in droves during the holiday season. Maires are political animals and respond to their voters, and if those voters say “Take measures to limit/stop motorhomes from coming here”, tthe maires will do this and are unlikely to be too concerned about how. And if the measures a maire takes are legally overturned, that definitely won’t enamour motorcaravanners to the commune’s residents. You mentioned La Flotte earlier. Ever since we began motorcaravanning in France the Ile de Ré has been a war zone regarding motorhome off-campsite parking, with successive maires actively attempting to prevent it. Me, I find it odd that motorcaravanners would deliberately seek to go somewhere and park (legally or otherwise) where the local community clearly don’t want them. If the authorities in such places are in future unable to limit such behaviour, it’s to be expected that local residents will take vigilante action. This is, after all, the traditional French way of showing displeasure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 The first few pages are an interesting read and the OP has obviously done his homework. On the Il de Re and other anti-camping-car places you find a lot of them parked in supermarket car parks overnight. When you consider some of the 35m2 pitches guaranteed by CCP That is about 5 feet between you and your neighbour either side, whereas after 7pm you can have half a hectare to yourself at Intermarche or Hyper-U. :-D And the pump and dump is cheaper too. Only €2. It is interesting what you say about residents complaining about camping-cars. The other side of the coin is the businesses who gain some trade from them. We eat out at restaurants about 5 times a week on average and always buy our bread, patisseries and meat for BBQs locally. We spent €150 in two days at Beaulieu-sur-Dordogne but those car drivers who arrived for the day didn't have to pay the parking charges that we had. It will be interesting to see how the restaurants at Moulismes fares after the change from free parking to CCP. I have a feeling that the Relais that caters mainly for truckers will continue to do OK, but the other one that was favoured by camping-car owners might suffer. There aren't anywhere near as many parked up overnight this year as last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 For €30 it’s possible to join the France Passion (FP) scheme that currently offers some 10,000 free parking spaces for motorhomes in France, and I was a FP member for 15 years. Attempting to compare free motorhome parking at supermarkets or on public car-parks with the FP scheme would be as unrealistic as attempting to do something similar with the Camping-Car Park network, but it seems to me that the latter is what you are choosing to do. The FP and CCP schemes have their pluses and minuses, but both schemes are (in my opnion) sufficiently well documented to allow people to easily decide to join or not. So are you trying to influence members of this forum to boycott the Camping-Car Park scheme, or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 No, I have said that in the right circumstances I would happily pay CCP for parking. Capdenac-Gare is one of them. If you look back at the posts I'm more concerned with paying whoever to park my camping-car when other motorists such as car drivers and lorry drivers can park on the same ground, share the same amenities, and are asked to pay nothing. Also, the increasing number of free aires that are being turned into paying aires with reduced facilities should worry all who travel through France. Not just me. The supermarket option isn't as bad as you make out. Not as a destination, but as a stop-over on route to somewhere else. Some of the Flotte-Bleu / CCP aires I've seen are cramped and have no facilities such as toilets or litter bins. In those circumstances I'd seek out a better option using Park4night or in the absence of an aire, use a supermarket car park rather than park side by side with a few feet between you and have to pay for the privilege. There are a lot of people using supermarkets as lunch time stop-overs too. There is a feeling that the CLC are winning the battle against 'rogue' Maires and if these latest rulings can become a nationally enforced law then camping-car owners will have the choice of going though the barrier and using the designated parking at a cost, or parking alongside the cars and lorries without charge. That has to be good for us. Equality and all that. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 Derek, I can only agree with the views expressed by nicepix - it's more a matter of equal treatment for Motorhomers and car/truck drivers alike. The point made consistently is that, much like in the auK, we are treated differently and begs the question - "Why should one vehicle (in this case a motorhome which could be as small as the average SUV) be treated differently when it comes to availability of parking and charges for parking in the same areas?" David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Motorcaravanners are often their own worst enemies and there’s normally a valid reason for French communes to seek to restrict motorhome numbers via ‘illegal’ restrictive notices, height barriers, etc. I posted the following in 2016 https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Ouistreham-Caen-H-rouvillette-motorhome-aire/45168/#M509007 Herouvillette is close to the Ouistreham ferry-port and the D-Day landing sites. The ‘aire’ is on a small public car-park that used to be crammed with motorhomes year-round to the extent that it was often unusable by local car owners. I’ve even saw a 10-metre RV there once and a (French) motorhome owner was clearly ‘full timing’ there. It’s perfectly understandable that regulation (legal or not) was applied, and if the Herouvillette authorities were forced to ‘deregulate’ the car-park, I’d anticipate a back-lash from local residents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek500 Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 We've stayed at a few Camping-Car Parks and none have been 'cramped' and they've all had bins. Not sure of the obsession with toilets. Don't we all have our own on board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 derek500 - 2019-04-21 10:10 AM We've stayed at a few Camping-Car Parks and none have been 'cramped' and they've all had bins. Not sure of the obsession with toilets. Don't we all have our own on board? Yes, according to CCP camping-caristes are autonomous and don't need toilets. Whereas car users and lorry drivers don't have toilets and so use public facilities. Which brings us around to why it is only camping-car users that are having to pay to park? :-S Regards space; I think the CCP statement was to provide a consistent 35m2 space per parking place. If you take 7m as being the front to back line then you have 5 metres width. Many vans are around 2,30 wide which leaves1,35m space each side. Look at the photo of the CCP site at Moulismes and you can see that there might be up to 10 vans in a line, side by side. The grassed areas and picnic benches are replicated in the larger free car park that also has a toilet block. I have been on other CCP sites where the pitches are more welcoming, but the one at Moulismes is designed for 53 vehicles and they will be packed in tight if it ever gets up to the same capacity it was as a free aire. If you look at the current occupancy and the comment in the review section somehow I think many are and will simply continue to park outside the CCP aire. That is the importance of the CLC taking Maires to court and having the No Camping-Car signs removed. Liberté, égalité, fraternité is for camping-car users too! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solwaybuggier Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Although I agree totally in principle with the CCP actions, as a personal choice much of the time I do want to exercise “camping behaviour “ . On a strict interpretation that includes opening windows, using levelling ramps where needed, etc; when we stop somewhere we like to put chairs out and sit in the open air. Obviously if it’s a quick overnight stop on a journey in February, say, it’s a different matter, but I certainly don’t want to sit cooped up all night in August! I know technically CCPs say no camping behaviour, but bluntly if I’m paying a private company for the privilege I’m more prepared to push the boundaries than if it’s a free facility provided by a commune, where I’ll follow what they ask! I can’t help but think many French mh’ers frankly deserve a lot of the flak they get - I’m thinking of the traditional scurry on charging Aires to go out for a walk when they know the official to collect payment is due! And despite CCPs charging up to €10, where a Britstop offers electricity, the going rate seems to be around £5 (not talking about those that take the p**s by charging £10 or more) so in practice I really don’t mind paying the CCP rate where it includes electricity. So, personal choice , but I’m quite happy to use a mixture of CCPs, Aires, FP and sites - I just wish we had as many choices in the UK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Solwaybuggier - 2019-04-22 7:31 AM ...I know technically CCPs say no camping behaviour, but bluntly if I’m paying a private company for the privilege I’m more prepared to push the boundaries than if it’s a free facility provided by a commune... I’m not sure I understand your argument. The Camping-Car Park (CCP) network comprises ex-campsites, ex-‘aires’, and new installations. Unlike public car-park ‘aires’, there is no restrictiojn on "camping behaviour”, though erecting windbreaks on hard-surface CCP sites would not be practicable and the emplacement size can be limited in a few cases. Even on ex-‘aire’ CCP sites, opening a motorhome’s windows, using levelling ramps, putting out chairs, etc. will be perfectly permissible.. For example, the CCP site at Bazouges-Cré-sur-Loir was a redundant municipal campsite and the photos here https://campingcarpark.com/en/shop/parking-areas/bazouges-cre-sur-loir-le-vieux-pont/ should make it very apparent that staying there in a motorhome now will be much the same as when the site was a campsite. The only real differences are that the site’s sanitary-block is no longer operational (so no toilets or showers) an effective motorhome ‘servicing point’ has been built, and the site has Wi-Fi coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solwaybuggier Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 My recollection may be wrong, - even though it’s only a couple of weeks ago we stayed there, we’ve been on various places since! But I think the new CCP at St Saturnin, just north of Le Mans, has a notice up saying “no camping behaviour “. Not warm enough to sit out at the time, so we didn’t test it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 The St Saturnin CCP site is relatively compact and appears to be hard-surfaced, so it may well be the case that there will be limitations on its usage. I can’t see “no camping behaviour” implying not opening motorhome windows or not using levelling ramps, but it might suggest that putting out a family-sized table and chairs set should be avoided. The CCP charter is detailed here https://campingcarpark.com/en/the-charter/ but it’s likely that the final sentence will be disregarded. (There’s also the matter of how crowded a CCP site is. If all the St Saturnin pitches were occupied, deploying tables and chairs might be frowned on: if just a few motorhomes were staying there, I doubt if anyone would care.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Solwaybuggier - 2019-04-22 8:31 AM Although I agree totally in principle with the CCP actions, as a personal choice much of the time I do want to exercise “camping behaviour “ . On a strict interpretation that includes opening windows, using levelling ramps where needed, etc; when we stop somewhere we like to put chairs out and sit in the open air. Obviously if it’s a quick overnight stop on a journey in February, say, it’s a different matter, but I certainly don’t want to sit cooped up all night in August! I know technically CCPs say no camping behaviour, but bluntly if I’m paying a private company for the privilege I’m more prepared to push the boundaries than if it’s a free facility provided by a commune, where I’ll follow what they ask! I can’t help but think many French mh’ers frankly deserve a lot of the flak they get - I’m thinking of the traditional scurry on charging Aires to go out for a walk when they know the official to collect payment is due! And despite CCPs charging up to €10, where a Britstop offers electricity, the going rate seems to be around £5 (not talking about those that take the p**s by charging £10 or more) so in practice I really don’t mind paying the CCP rate where it includes electricity. So, personal choice , but I’m quite happy to use a mixture of CCPs, Aires, FP and sites - I just wish we had as many choices in the UK! The personal choice is important and that is what is being challenged. Regards 'camping behaviour' there are too many grey areas. For example when we go to the River Charente or Dordogne for a day out we sometimes go in the car, but take a picnic table, chairs and a pop up tent to get changed in for swimming. We are not camping so why should a camping-car user not do the same and put the stuff away at night? The lorry driver who has a sleeper cab but little or no sanitary facilities on board stops for the night - is he camping? One thing about the people sneaking off when the payment collector is due; Sometimes we know that we are not going to be there at that time and so put cash in an envelope and mark the envelope with our van's reg' number, the date and a brief note to explain. Then we drop the envelope off at the Mairie or in their letter box. On one occasion near Rocamadour we couldn't find the Mairie's letter box so we left the envelope at the Tourist Information office. The lady said that it was not uncommon for campers to come in and pay when they had missed the collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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