Fitting 12v sockets

[Barryd999]

I could do with at least two extra 12v sockets in the van. One or two maybe in the rear lounge low down. I was thinking just in the plywood panels near the floor behind which is the Leisure battery. I presume it would just be a case of running two wires for each directly to the battery.

 

I could also do with one up front under the front dinette. There is a surflo water pump under one of the seats, could I just take a feed of the power cables for that?

 

Any recommendations on sockets? I think I want to avoid those with usb sockets probably as I think they draw power when not in use unless there is something with an on off switch.

[stevec176]

I would think realistically you can take power from any source thats on continually but ensure you put a fuse in each line.

[Wasnt Me]

Yes you can run directly to the battery, but I would in install an inline fuse holder.

 

I installed one of these, its useful to have a battery readout in volts.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B077XY276Y/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_8IfuDb6TZH58Q

 

Hope this helps

[stevec176]

I would think realistically you can take power from any source thats on continually but ensure you put a fuse in each line.

[plwsm2000]

You would be better off using a spare output on your EBL (if there is one!). If you take it straight from the battery (via a fuse), you will bypass any current monitoring and so battery capacity readings will be out.

 

I also personally would use the "cigar lighter" sockets rather than the USB outputs for 3 reasons.

1) No continuous power drain (as you said).

2) You can use it for 12V powered items (not just USB)

3) You can use a decent USB fast charger such as this [url=] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Charge-Charger-RAVPower-Adapter-Smartphones-Black/dp/B076H1Z3SH [/url].

Many newer phones can accept "Quick Charge 3.0" (QC3.0) that will charge the phone 2-3 times faster than a "normal" USB charger y using a higher voltage. This is not so much as a time saver, but more of making use of any excess solar power during daylight hours.

 

[Robinhood]

There won't be an EBL on a Swift!

 

If it were me, I'd run back to the leisure battery with all of them, and each on a fused circuit (though for the two closer ones, if they are also close together, you might be OK with a single fused circuit, as long as you are careful to match the fuse and wire cross-section).

 

If you want to install USB sockets, it's not at all difficult to add an adjacent in-line switch, to avoid any current draw when not in use. (I did this on my last van - simple, small circular automotive rocker switch is easy to add and mount next to the USB socket).

 

I'd be wary of adding anything to the pump circuit. Pumps are notorious for "pulsing" the supply if the wiring is below par, and I'm also trying to get my mind round microswitched pump circuits (which your Swift may have) and the effects of jumping across the +ve and -ve with an additional item.

[Derek Uzzell]

I echo Robinhood’s advice.

 

There’s also the possibility with a (1996?) Swift motorhome that some of the original 12V habitation wiring will go ‘dead’ when the motorhome’s engine is started.

[Barryd999]

Great replies thanks, just what I was looking for. I did not know about the fast USB chargers so thats a really helpful tip as I am just about to change my phone for huge a one that has a 5200mh battery which can do fast charging.

 

Yes I would prefer just 12v cigar lighter type sockets as I have a couple of plug in USB adaptors. Inline fuses of course a good idea but thanks for reminding me as I would have forgotten and just wired them in! 8-)

 

yep its a 1996 vintage Kontiki so the wiring is a bit dodgy in places but its all pretty basic stuff. Putting new wiring all the way round to the front dinette will be a complete PIA though to be honest. I believe the 12v system does still work with the engine running though.

 

 

[ColinM50]

Just moving sideways a bit, re the USB charging sockets, you can change a 240V socket to one that incorporates a USB socket so doing away withe the plug in charger;

https://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/switches-sockets/cat830530?switchessocketsproducttype=socket_with_usb&cm_sp=managedredirect-_-electrical-_-usbsocket

 

Not seen a single one, but a double socket can't be that hard to fit can it? Just a bit of sawing with a coping saw,

[Alanb]

ColinM50 - 2019-08-12 9:37 AM

 

Just moving sideways a bit, re the USB charging sockets, you can change a 240V socket to one that incorporates a USB socket so doing away withe the plug in charger;

https://www.screwfix.com/c/electrical-lighting/switches-sockets/cat830530?switchessocketsproducttype=socket_with_usb&cm_sp=managedredirect-_-electrical-_-usbsocket

 

Not seen a single one, but a double socket can't be that hard to fit can it? Just a bit of sawing with a coping saw,

 

In order to preclude inadvertant contact with live 240V connections, any 240V socket must be fitted with either an earthed metal or insulating backbox

 

Alan

[ColinM50]

Actually, just been in to Screwfix for some other stuff and they've got a special offer of a single socket with two USB sockets for eight quid. Bargain or what?

[Barryd999]

The main purpose is to power laptops in the right places. I tried an extension from a motor factors place but it was a bit flaky and I would rather not have wires all over the place. We both have 12v laptop chargers but they are only about two metres long and the only socket I would trust to plug it into is in the high up cupboard in the back.

 

USB charging is not a problem as there is a bank of four cig lighter sockets in the wardrobe connected to the load outlet on the MPPT controller so I just bung a two way USB charger in one of them as and when required but I Wouldnt power a laptop off them as they are a bit flimsy.

[Sydney1]

I recently fitted an additional USB charging point connected directly to my bank of 2, 90amp leisure batteries with an inline fuse. I hadn't appreciated it would continuously draw a current. I've got a 100 watt solar panel also connected to the leisure batteries via MPPT. As the batteries are being topped up (during the day at least), is the draw something I necessarily need to worry about i.e adding a stitch a nice to have or must have under the circumstances.

[StuartO]

It's perhaps worth reminding ourselves that cigar sockets in he dashboard are commonly provided to take up to 15 amps, for use with tyre inflators etc rather than lower power uses such as laptop charging. If the 12v sockets are easily installed close to the leisure battery in this case, it would be sensible to use cabling capable of at least 15 amps with a switch and fuse in series of 15+ amp rating. Someone (eg a future owner) might plug a 12v vaccum cleaner into these sockets.

 

Double 12v sockets are available for panel installation but wouldn't it make sense, these days, to install panels with USB sockets too?

[Robinhood]

Sydney1 - 2019-08-12 1:25 PM

 

I recently fitted an additional USB charging point connected directly to my bank of 2, 90amp leisure batteries with an inline fuse. I hadn't appreciated it would continuously draw a current. I've got a 100 watt solar panel also connected to the leisure batteries via MPPT. As the batteries are being topped up (during the day at least), is the draw something I necessarily need to worry about i.e adding a stitch a nice to have or must have under the circumstances.

 

The following is as I understand it.

 

A decent 12V to USB charging point will probably have a permanent current draw when not in use. You could measure it to check, or rely on the general view that this will only be a few mA.

 

Frankly, if it is only a few mA, then it is only going to be an issue if the 'van is out of use for (very) extended periods, and not subject to either mains or solar charging during that period.

 

I fitted a couple of points to my last 'van, and as it was easy to provide switching as well, I did so. They were, however, wired to a permanently on outlet on the EBL, not affected by the panel 12V switch.

 

The current van came with a set of factory installed unswitched USB points. These are, however, controlled by the panel 12V switch, which is used for isolation during "lay-up".

 

In reality, I would expect you to experience little or no problem from any residual current draw (though, if battery life does prove to be an issue, the residual current draw is one of the early things I would check)

[Barryd999]

Well last night my Heath Robinson mounted 4 way 12v socket bank literally blew up. Its in the wardrobe and connected to the load outlet of our Solar MPPT controller. As I am constantly plugging and unplugging chargers into it, it finally gave up the ghost last night after years of use when I was unplugging everything (I was a bit p*ssed to be honest), something sparked and the cable that supplies it came adrift from the box and I actually got a small shock.

 

Ive took it all out now but I need to replace it. What I was thinking as its in a convenient place is to put in a single good quality 12v socket off the load outlet of the MPPT in the wardrobe and just mount one of these where the old bank of sockets was inside the wardrobe and leave all my chargers and stuff plugged into it and just either switch it off when not in use or unplug it from the master socket off the load outlet.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Charger-Multi-Function-Adapter-Cigarette-Splitter/dp/B076V9VQPM

 

Daft or good idea?

[pepe63xnotuse]

I don't pretend to be qualified to say one way or the other but I've never liked the look of those trailing, multi-outlet adapter things. They always look a bit cheap and nasty...sorry..

 

If it were me I'd at least be looking at something that was intended to be bulkhead mounted ..and if needs be,make the array up myself, using better quality single sockets..

 

The last 12v sockets I fitted to a previous van were 10-12 quid each (and I think had "Marine" on the rubber cap?) and they were markedly superior to the Halford-esque type tat that I had looked at... :-S

[Barryd999]

Thanks Pepe. This one does look like a decent quality item though and I would be plugging it into a proper socket. Its only used for the telly, usb chargers and the iBoost. I intend to fit a couple of extra proper 12v motorhome sockets also as discussed. The trouble is I need three or four in the wardrobe (Usb and 12v) for low wattage stuff so this seemed like a good solution.

[Derek Uzzell]

The Amazon advert has 613 customer reviews and a load of answered questions - surely that amount of information should be sufficient to decide whether or not to purchase the product?

[Barryd999]

Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-27 1:21 PM

 

The Amazon advert has 613 customer reviews and a load of answered questions - surely that amount of information should be sufficient to decide whether or not to purchase the product?

 

Yes and they are pretty good but I reckon most of them are from car drivers not motorhomers. Always good to get an opinion from the experts on here. Someone might say "how about this one I got"? etc. I much prefer a recommendation from a fellow motorhomer than Amazon clients but point taken.

[paid2travel]

With our first MH our goal is to experience more wild camping than hook-up camping (roughly split at 60/40)

My MH is currently getting a solar panel fitted to help support some off-road 12v supply but I’m trying to get my very novice head around 12v habitation supply for additional devices ie, laptop, mobile, and any future 12v appliances we might want use in the future for using or charging.

 

Have only two original factory continental sockets installed which I guess supply the AC when on hook-up and DC when off road?? One socket is under the dinette table & the other on a facia panel below bunk beds. At the moment, the dinette socket is connected to a UK extension lead for when intend to hook-up in the UK which seems to be fine so when going abroad, we’ll just remove the extension lead and use the original continental socket for hook-up while staying in Aries.

 

We currently don’t have an inverter fitted, that’s another thought I haven’t even contemplated yet!

 

So, can I either….

 

1) Take a feed from one of the original sockets and fit an additional 12v UK style socket, plus a USB socket? If so, what type of thickness rating would the wire be & would the socket need an in-line fuse?

 

2) Take a direct feed from my EBL 99 (Block 8) I think, and run the wires to supply extra sockets. If so, what type of connection would I need for the Block 8 ?

 

Seen some other posts about similar subjects and been on youtube to learn more but not really finding much clarity and ending up getting stuck and spinning around in circles.

 

Thanks Martin

[StuartO]

The connectors on EBLs are the Mate n Lok type and you can buy the plastic plugs (in this case a nine way) and the male connecting pins from EBay. Unless you have the PIN numbers you will need to use a multimeter to work out which pins to use for the positive and negative of your supply.

[747]

Block 8 would do the job but it would be best to find a schematic wiring diagram or at least use a multimeter to find a live 12 volt outlet on Block 8.

 

Alternatively just take the power direct from the leisure battery(ies) through a fuse and a on/off switch.

[Alanb]

paid2travel - 2020-07-21 1:52 PM

==================================================================================

==================================================================================

Have only two original factory continental sockets installed which I guess supply the AC when on hook-up and DC when off road?? One socket is under the dinette table & the other on a facia panel below bunk beds. At the moment, the dinette socket is connected to a UK extension lead for when intend to hook-up in the UK which seems to be fine so when going abroad, we’ll just remove the extension lead and use the original continental socket for hook-up while staying in Aries.

==================================================================================

==================================================================================

Thanks Martin

 

I am seriously concerned by the above description of the AC distribution in Martin's Carado MH. I can only hope that he is mistaken.

 

The system as described is not fit for purpose.

 

A basic installation would consist of the following items. 16A IEC mains inlet connector with 2.5 sq mm flexible cable connecting a 240V distribution board. The distribution board should contain a double pole 25mA RCD and an a preferably double pole MCB rated at no more than 16A. CBE use a 13A MCB which allows the use 1.5 sq mm flexible cable for onward connection to the socket outlets and Schaudt or other charger.

 

The 12V outlets are entirely electrically separate from the 240V installation.

 

As regards the use of Schaudt Block 8 for connection of 12V outlets, that is correct.

 

On a diagram for the Schaudt EBL 99, that I have previously downloaded, Spare outlets 1,5,&6 are shown. The pins are 7&13, 4&11, 1&5 +ve & -ve respectively. A maximum fuse rating of 15A is specified.

 

Alternative spare outlets 2, 3, & 4 are on Block 5. Outlet 2 is also has a specified maximum fuse rating of 15A and uses pins 6 &11. Outlets 3 & 4 have a maximum fuse rating of 25A and are allocated two pins per pole 2/3 & 7&8, 1/4 & 5/10, +ve & -ve respectively. Outlet Spare 4 has a different source, and may be permanently available.

 

Some of the designated "Spare" outlets will probably have been used for lights etc.

 

Alan

[Robinhood]

paid2travel - 2020-07-21 1:52 PM

 

Have only two original factory continental sockets installed which I guess supply the AC when on hook-up and DC when off road??

 

 

Unless I'm misunderstanding, (and these are 12v DIN type sockets) these are "mains" sockets only, and will supply AC only, and only on hook-up. I'm sure you know what a continental 230V socket looks like. ;-)

 

paid2travel - 2020-07-21 1:52 PM

 

So, can I either….

 

1) Take a feed from one of the original sockets and fit an additional 12v UK style socket, plus a USB socket? If so, what type of thickness rating would the wire be & would the socket need an in-line fuse?

 

2) Take a direct feed from my EBL 99 (Block 8) I think, and run the wires to supply extra sockets. If so, what type of connection would I need for the Block 8 ?

 

 

Subject to the load on the existing circuit, it is possible to extend it to supply other sockets, but if you do attempt this, do make sure it's a 12V circuit (see above ;-)), and check what else is on it. 12V circuits will invariably be already fused back at the EBL, and you shouldn't exceed the rated fuse value for total current draw.

 

However, if you can get wires from your EBL to your desired mounting location, I would strongly recommend providing a new circuit from one of the spare outlets, then you won't mess up the existing electrics. I did a write-up somewhere, but can't currently find it.

 

There is a choice of connection points (block 8 and block 5 being the obvious) and you can choose your option depending on desired functionality, power requirement (the maximum fuse rating varies depending on where you connect) and whether the block is already partially "populated" or not.

 

The connectors are, as stated above "Mate n'Lock" (MNL) blocks readily available on the web (eBay search will find them) and they are sold in "ways" e.g. 6-way/8-way, which have standard layouts, and shaped to only connect in one direction. If the particular EBL block is already partially populated with outputs, you simply need pins for the extra connections - crimp the wires to these pins (first) and insert in the appropriate points in the (disconnected) block. If the block is not currently populated you will need both the appropriate n-way connector and pins (You may have to buy the male and female parts of the connector).

 

You can crimp with pliers, but a cheap crimping tool is probably better. Take care inserting the pins in the correct positions; in theory they are removable, but it's difficult without the correct extraction tool.

 

The required wiring will also depend on the current being drawn, but I've generally used 16.5 amp thinwall two-core automotive cable (and fused at no greater than 15 amp at the EBL). It's flexible and relatively easy to run (and can be bought higher-rated) .

 

The appropriate pin connections can be determined from the block diagram for an EBL99, if you haven't got one, then one can be referred to in this document:

 

http://www.giordanobenicchi.it/camper/manuali%20vari/Schaudt_EBL99_G_E.pdf

 

(Various versions of the EBL99 exists, AFAIK the pin assignment is common to all. The maximum fuse value for a circuit may vary by version, but that relevant for yours will be the value marked on the EBL by the fuse itself).

 

The block diagram shows each pin in the block, the face of the EBL gives reference to the pin layout against the block. (e.g. in your picture Block5 has pins 1 and 3 marked, showing the bottom row is 1,2,3, the next row 4,5,6, etc.)

 

Any of the Spare/Reserve outlets would be a good choice. Note that Spare 1,2,5 and 6 are fused at a maximum of 15A, and are single outputs. 3 and 4 are fused at a maximum of 25A and have two potential outputs.

 

Also note the special nature of Reserve 4, in that it is *not* switched off by the panel main switch. It is worth keeping this for any items you specifically need that for (e.g. wiring a radio to the leisure battery, rather than the vehicle battery, where a permanent live is required).

 

For the potential bits you might require, MNL connectors, cable, sockets, etc.

 

https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/

 

is a good browsing source, you may get better value elsewhere depending on what you're chasing.