Importing from Germany

[Tony M]

Hi,

I am thinking of importing a new 'van from Germany and have been told that I would have to pay the 19% vat in Germany and then claim it back from the dealer after the vehicle has been registered in UK.

I imported a new Hymer in 2005 and this wasn't the case then - the dealer simply supplying net of vat.

 

Does anyone know if the regs have changed or have I been fed incorrect information? Thanks in advance,

Tony

[Klyne]

Surely if buy something in a another EU country you pay the going rate of VAT but then pay no more when you bring it back to the UK. I make the assumption that there are no special circumstances where by VAT could be reclaimed because of say a disability.

 

David

[Guest JudgeMental]

Tony whay you have been told is correct. You can be lucky and find a dealer that will supply free of VAT, but most won't trust you to send proof that UK VAT has been payed? which could make them liable.

 

vehicle import is different then other "goods" where vat is payed locally

 

If vehicle has been registered for 6 months or over (so not new) and has X thousand miles (not sure how many) you just register it here as VAT paid by original purchaser.......

 

Apply for the DVLA import pack on line

[lennyhb]

It's 6000 km M'laud.

 

Myself & the Judge have both imported from Belgium where dealers will supply VAT free not always though. Also much safer as the dealer will usually drive the van to the port for you so you don't have to risk driving it home on 3rd party insurance.

 

I don't think the regs have changed it just that dealers are unwilling to take the chance as they are responsible for the VAT if you don't return the necessary documents to them.

 

The first time my mate brought a van in Belgium he gave the dealer his business VAT number & the van was invoiced to his company. When he replaced the van and I brought mine dealer was quite happy to invoice us both VAT free as my mate had a track record.

 

 

 

 

[lennyhb]

Klyne - 2011-01-28 7:28 PM

 

Surely if buy something in a another EU country you pay the going rate of VAT but then pay no more when you bring it back to the UK. I make the assumption that there are no special circumstances where by VAT could be reclaimed because of say a disability.

 

David

 

Applies to caravans David, we imported a Hobby caravan from Germany just drove it home.

Motor vehicles are treated as a special case and VAT is payable in the country of registration.

 

 

[Klyne]

lennyhb - 2011-01-28 10:31 PM

 

Klyne - 2011-01-28 7:28 PM

 

Surely if buy something in a another EU country you pay the going rate of VAT but then pay no more when you bring it back to the UK. I make the assumption that there are no special circumstances where by VAT could be reclaimed because of say a disability.

 

David

 

Applies to caravans David, we imported a Hobby caravan from Germany just drove it home.

Motor vehicles are treated as a special case and VAT is payable in the country of registration.

 

 

Thank you, I didn't appreciate there was a difference.

 

David

[Brian Kirby]

Tony M - 2011-01-28 6:33 PM Hi, I am thinking of importing a new 'van from Germany and have been told that I would have to pay the 19% vat in Germany and then claim it back from the dealer after the vehicle has been registered in UK. I imported a new Hymer in 2005 and this wasn't the case then - the dealer simply supplying net of vat. Does anyone know if the regs have changed or have I been fed incorrect information? Thanks in advance, Tony

If you already know this, my apologies, but your biggest problem is likely to be insurance, not VAT.  You should get a basic, third party only, insurance with your temporary German registration plates.  I can't remember how long it remains in force, but believe it is several weeks rather than days.  Check with the dealer.  You are likely to find this will be the only insurance you have until you get to UK.

As a generalisation, you are unlikely to be able to obtain any UK insurance for the journey from the dealer to a UK port, and will have some difficulty getting UK full comp insurance cover for the van until it is registered in UK.  Some will insure, on a temporary basis, on the German registration number, some on the VIN, but again as a generalisation, this will cover you only to drive from the port to your home, and if necessary to a VOSA inspection station if required as part of the registration process.  It will however, at least be insured against fire, theft, and accidental damage under that policy while at your home.  I suggest you try the motorhome insurance specialists who advertise in MMM and other motorhoming mags.

You may have difficulty unless you can park the van off-road until registered, because it will not be fully insured for use on the road.  This is something to make sure the insurer has fully understood and recorded. 

I think insurance will prove by far the most difficult nut to crack, and is the area where it would be wise to start research.  I would advise that you make absolutely certain that what you intend doing is confirmed in writing to, or by, the insurer, since some call centre operatives seem to be a little uninformed, poorly trained, or cavalier, over agreeing cover that may not conform with their underwriting restrictions.  It is their problem if they do - providing you can prove that you told them everything they needed to know!  This is not an area to rely on the fact they they didn't ask, as evidence they didn't need to know!  :-)

Some insurers may claim they can insure you FC for the trip back, on the basis that the third party risks arising out of any incident would be covered on the German third party insurance.  My information is that this breaks a fundamental principle of insurance that you can only insure one item once, and as your UK FC would include third party cover this approach may be deemed potentially fraudulent.  As above, make sure any such offer is fully set out in writing.

Finally, do not be lulled into accepting cover on the basis that UK registration must be completed within a fixed time (say a week to ten days) from arrival back in UK.  The registration process is straightforward, but you cannot control or influence how quickly your local DVLA office will proceed.  Best response times generally are early in the month, avoiding those months when the registration suffix letter changes.

You may find the Hymer Club UK has information on this, and on dealerships offering very favourable discounts, if looking for another Hymer.

[Guest JudgeMental]

To be honest I and most on here spent many of our younger years driving third party? It takes less then 2 hours from Belgium to Calais, and approx 3 - 5 hours drive from a lot of German dealers, so not a lot or risk in my opinion?

 

UK insurance kicks in for 30 days when you get to UK? Most Belgium dealers will drive you to port so no risk there....and I am sure a German dealer would do the same at a reasonable price as they have staff available for this if you are concerened...So no big deal me thinks :-D

[lennyhb]

Can't agree with you M'Laud on the 3rd party risk.

 

So you have just brought a van for 50K you are driving back you have an accident that is your fault or you are involved in one with an uninsured driver, or maybe it's not your fault but the police or insurance company side with the local, all well & good if you can afford to loose 50K.

I know you are going to say you have driven 10's of thousands of miles without incident and the chances of it happening in those few hours is very slight but we've all heard of Sods Law!

 

Saw a Hymer B Class (A class to rest of you) in the Belgium dealers 2 weeks old written off, driver clipped one off those red & white concrete blocks they put on the lanes at roadworks, rolled the van & wrote it off. Basicly driving an unfamiliar vehicle down a narrow bit of road & what are you going to be going - driving an unfamiliar vehicle.

 

[Brian Kirby]

JudgeMental - 2011-01-29 12:04 PM To be honest I and most on here spent many of our younger years driving third party? It takes less then 2 hours from Belgium to Calais, and approx 3 - 5 hours drive from a lot of German dealers, so not a lot or risk in my opinion? UK insurance kicks in for 30 days when you get to UK? Most Belgium dealers will drive you to port so no risk there....and I am sure a German dealer would do the same at a reasonable price as they have staff available for this if you are concerened...So no big deal me thinks :-D

All true, but the difficulty is worth pointing out, IMO, because we don't know where Tony lives - possibly Co Durham - which is a lot further from the ports than sarf Lunnon :-) - and in case he (or any one else who reads this) assumes the German insurance offers better cover than it does, or if he is considering buying from a German dealer further from the Channel coast than 3-5 hours drive.

As to the risk on third party only, I agree, but there is a bit of a difference between one of the bangers of our yoof :-), and a shiny new £80,000 Hymer, so I think it worth warning folk, just so that they can decide how they feel about the risks before they sign an order.  After all, there are simple alternatives to driving the van home, that eliminate these risks.

Which raises another issue folk may not be aware of.  When you sign with a German dealer, you are entering into a contract to buy under German law.  The deposit will be greater, and the contract cannot be as easily reversed as in UK.  So, make sure you are happy with your choice, with the dealer, and with where he is located, before signing up and paying the deposit. 

Final point: do consider warranty work.  Dealers close to the Channel coast are favourite, but the best price may be a lot further across Germany, so getting from Channel to dealer could be a consideration.  Few, if any, UK dealers will touch a van they didn't supply, especially if imported at a lower than UK price.  The oily bits, and individual components guaranteed by the likes of Truma, Dometic and Thetford are fine, but the remaining habitation elements are not.

[Derek Uzzell]

Checking the documentation relating to my own 2005 motorhome-importing escapade, I note that I took out temporary German 3rd-party insurance for an 8-day period and I suspect that's the minimum duration.

 

As Brian says, obtaining dealer-to-home 'comprehensive' insurance remains a nest of worms, not (apparently) because it's legally impossible for UK insurance providers to supply it, but because the various vehicle-related computer systems/databases haven't been fully integrated to handle something that so few people want to do (and, according to the DLA's advice, probably can't do legally even if they did have comprehensive insurance!)

 

If I remember correctly CaravanWise would offer dealer-to-home comprehensive cover to motorhome importers.

[Frankkia]

We imported our 'van last March and got all the paperwork done by Nick Legg at Bundesvan. That way the German dealer used Nicks VAT number so did not charge the MWST (German VAT). That saved a lot of messing about.

 

If you are not able to claim UK VAT back then why not pay the German MWST - that way you won't need to pay the higher UK VAT?

 

Doing the deal via Nick also meant that we got the 'van registered before we went to collect it so we were able to take the UK number plates and tax disc with us and of course we had full comprehensive insurance - well worth the bit extra we paid for Nicks services.

[Barney123]

Yes Frankkia, that was a nice little earner for Bundsvan, last I heard you would have been charged around £4k for that job

[Guest JudgeMental]

Barney123 - 2011-01-29 9:03 PM

 

Yes Frankkia, that was a nice little earner for Bundsvan, last I heard you would have been charged around £4k for that job

 

Yep I agree, easy money..... A straightforward DIY job. keep the negotiated saving on advertised price for yourself *-)

 

Full UK insurance for 30 days comes in at the port? you are insured on your VIN, you do not need plates to drive home, or for a booking for inspection with DVLA, just pop into halford on way back......

[Frankkia]

Actually £1k.

 

And that saved me on paying the MWST and then claiming it back and got me a better exchange rate too so not so bad.

[Tony M]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for the replies. Last time I bought from Durrwang at Dortmund and as I said I did not have to pay German vat. It is the same dealer who has now told a friend of mine that he would have to pay the vat inclusive price and claim it back once UK vat has been paid. The only problem with this, of course, is that you have to shell out another 10k or so in the short term until you receive your repayment.

Maybe Durrwang have been stung and changed their terms of business.

 

Regarding insurance, I don't recall it being a problem last time as I was able to arrange it using only the vin number. Can't remember who with but it was one of the major specialist insurers who regularly advertise in MMM.

 

As far as the registration goes it's a piece of cake. Simply took the relevant docs to my local DVLA office (Exeter) and it was all done in 15 minutes. They sent off the neccessary paperwork to customs & revenue and a vat bill was duly issued. Simples.

 

Thanks again for all your input.

Regards

Tony

[Guest JudgeMental]

You will have to change the speedo to MPH? and posibily the headlights as well? and move the fog light to otherside.......

[Barney123]

Sorry Judge, it depends on which motorhome you purchase, mine has speedo in both KPH and MPH, yes maybe you have to alter the lights settings or do what Brit vans do when they go across the water, as for fog lights, mine has 2 one on each side....... next question ?

[Guest JudgeMental]

in your rush to appear clever you are missing the FACT that NORMALLY European vans do not have a dual KPH/MPH speedo's and will need changing. also a lot of headlight are not adjustable, and coachbuilt NORMALLY have jut the one fog light, whereas some panel vans have 2.

 

It is down to your local DVLA, some are much more relaxed then others at interpreting Reg's so registering a new import van a bit of a post code lottery

[Brian Kirby]

Tony, and Barney 123, things have changed in the meantime! 

As above, insurance is now a real pain, and very difficult to piece together.  How you feel about the trip form the dealer to the Channel on third party only, depends on your attitude to risk, no doubt somewhat influenced by how much you've just spent!

The registration procedure now involves completing a VOSA declaration (either on-line, or by post, which you sign to say all necessary modifications - speedo to show MPH (KPH in addition optional), headlights (benders not acceptable), and rear fogs (UK offside, or central, bout sides accepted) - have been completed. 

They may call in your van for inspection to verify.  If you say you did, and you haven't, you have made a false declaration, and face a penalty.  So yes, still simples, but changed and more precise.

[Guest JudgeMental]

what is difficult about the insurance? UK insurers issue a cover note on VIN, so fully covered once at port, that is then OK to get you home and to a booked inspection? Then those nervous about driving a couple of hours on 3rd party, just get the dealer to drive you to port with one of their guys who will probably hitch back with his trade plates...what is so difficult and fraught about that.

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2011-01-30 1:05 PM

 

...speedo to show MPH (KPH in addition optional)...

 

Just for the record, it's actually vice versa. The Europe-wide requirement is for a speedometer that registers kmh. For countries (like the UK) that use the mile as a distance unit, an mph-registering speedometer is allowed. But that doesn't override the basic kmh-registering requirement.

 

So UK-registered vehicles' speedometers must be able to show speed in kmh (to satisfy the Europe-wide requirement) AND mph (to satisfy the UK requirement).

 

I've no idea if imported RVs that (presumably) come into this country with mph-only speedometers have a kmh-scale added, but a dual kmh/mph speedometer is very definitely a legal requirement for a UK-registered vehicle and that requirement is mentioned in the Police Traffic Officer's Handbook.

[Derek Uzzell]

JudgeMental - 2011-01-30 1:19 PM

 

what is difficult about the insurance? UK insurers issue a cover note on VIN, so fully covered once at port, that is then OK to get you home and to a booked inspection? Then those nervous about driving a couple of hours on 3rd party, just get the dealer to drive you to port with one of their guys who will probably hitch back with his trade plates...what is so difficult and fraught about that.

 

But then, of course, your motorhome will be uninsured while on the ferry...

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Derek Uzzell - 2011-01-30 1:46 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2011-01-30 1:19 PM

 

what is difficult about the insurance? UK insurers issue a cover note on VIN, so fully covered once at port, that is then OK to get you home and to a booked inspection? Then those nervous about driving a couple of hours on 3rd party, just get the dealer to drive you to port with one of their guys who will probably hitch back with his trade plates...what is so difficult and fraught about that.

 

But then, of course, your motorhome will be uninsured while on the ferry...

 

covered third party, in the tunnel for 35 minutes?

[Derek Uzzell]

JudgeMental - 2011-01-30 2:03 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2011-01-30 1:46 PM

 

JudgeMental - 2011-01-30 1:19 PM

 

what is difficult about the insurance? UK insurers issue a cover note on VIN, so fully covered once at port, that is then OK to get you home and to a booked inspection? Then those nervous about driving a couple of hours on 3rd party, just get the dealer to drive you to port with one of their guys who will probably hitch back with his trade plates...what is so difficult and fraught about that.

 

But then, of course, your motorhome will be uninsured while on the ferry...

 

covered third party, in the tunnel for 35 minutes?

 

How does that work, then?

 

You have been suggesting that the Continental dealer arranges for the newly-purchased motorhome to be delivered to the port (be it ferry or Tunnel). Once there the dealer's insurance cover will cease. Then (presumably?) the UK-buyer moves into the driving-seat and drives the vehicle on to the ferry or Shuttle. The UK-issued insurance cover will only commence when the motorhome arrives on UK soil, so it seems to me that, from the moment the UK-buyer replaces the dealer's 'delivery driver' to the moment the motorhome reaches UK soil, the motorhome will be uninsured. Is that not the case?