Guest JudgeMental Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Derek Uzzell - 2011-01-30 2:23 PM JudgeMental - 2011-01-30 2:03 PM Derek Uzzell - 2011-01-30 1:46 PM JudgeMental - 2011-01-30 1:19 PM what is difficult about the insurance? UK insurers issue a cover note on VIN, so fully covered once at port, that is then OK to get you home and to a booked inspection? Then those nervous about driving a couple of hours on 3rd party, just get the dealer to drive you to port with one of their guys who will probably hitch back with his trade plates...what is so difficult and fraught about that. But then, of course, your motorhome will be uninsured while on the ferry... covered third party, in the tunnel for 35 minutes? How does that work, then? You have been suggesting that the Continental dealer arranges for the newly-purchased motorhome to be delivered to the port (be it ferry or Tunnel). Once there the dealer's insurance cover will cease. Then (presumably?) the UK-buyer moves into the driving-seat and drives the vehicle on to the ferry or Shuttle. The UK-issued insurance cover will only commence when the motorhome arrives on UK soil, so it seems to me that, from the moment the UK-buyer replaces the dealer's 'delivery driver' to the moment the motorhome reaches UK soil, the motorhome will be uninsured. Is that not the case? Not if you take the 3rd party travel insurance from dealer first? then if have the jitters get him to deliver van to port, and you take over from there, you still have the export cover. But right what you say you could have no cover from port to UK if you dont take the export plates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 JudgeMental - 2011-01-30 2:33 PM Derek Uzzell - 2011-01-30 2:23 PM JudgeMental - 2011-01-30 2:03 PM Derek Uzzell - 2011-01-30 1:46 PM JudgeMental - 2011-01-30 1:19 PM what is difficult about the insurance? UK insurers issue a cover note on VIN, so fully covered once at port, that is then OK to get you home and to a booked inspection? Then those nervous about driving a couple of hours on 3rd party, just get the dealer to drive you to port with one of their guys who will probably hitch back with his trade plates...what is so difficult and fraught about that. But then, of course, your motorhome will be uninsured while on the ferry... covered third party, in the tunnel for 35 minutes? How does that work, then? You have been suggesting that the Continental dealer arranges for the newly-purchased motorhome to be delivered to the port (be it ferry or Tunnel). Once there the dealer's insurance cover will cease. Then (presumably?) the UK-buyer moves into the driving-seat and drives the vehicle on to the ferry or Shuttle. The UK-issued insurance cover will only commence when the motorhome arrives on UK soil, so it seems to me that, from the moment the UK-buyer replaces the dealer's 'delivery driver' to the moment the motorhome reaches UK soil, the motorhome will be uninsured. Is that not the case? Not if you take the 3rd party travel insurance from dealer first? then if have the jitters get him to deliver van to port, and you take over from there, you still have the export cover. But right what you say you could have no cover from port to UK if you dont take the export plates I thought the logic behind your suggestion that the dealer drive the motorhome to the port was to avoid having to temporarily register and 3rd-party insure the vehicle abroad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 not sure what I will be doing yet, if Germany 3rd party plates and insurance,not risk adverse....... If Belgium probaly borrow trade plates and post back (as last time) But as you say, I would not fancy being without any insurance even for a short tunnel hop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 What a b****y carry on that lot sounds. I keep reading phrases like, nothing to it, and no messing about. Eh? For what sort of percentage saving are we talking here? When everything, and I mean everything, time, phone calls, internet usage time, finance exchange, travelling time, ferry/tunnel, forum discussion is all added together. Is it really worth it, or is it just the challenge for some? Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 dealers must rub there hands together with glee when you waltz in Martyn:-D You mean to say if buying here you dont shop around and try and get a better deal from various dealers? then its just a matter of going and getting the thing and getting it registered, hardly difficult. I am retired anyway so dont mind the research. I just refuse to be ripped of and pay £10.000 more for a lower spec camper just because it is RHD which I also dont want..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Eddie, the dealers weep, with pain not joy at my negotiating skills I can assure you :D Of course I shop around, but to a degree that the saving isn't compromised by the research etc. In fact, the last new vehicle I bought in '05, the dealer was gutted as he revealed to me the business had made - wait for it.....£15 on the entire deal. Customer 1 Dealer 0 OK, back to the subject, it's a different ball game for you - you actually want LHD, that's different, if you get a saving that's a bonus. But, I notice no actual percentage savings have been proffered yet, (by anyone) which include all the factors I mentioned in my last post. Which makes me wonder whether folk who buy abroad, (for the saving, real or otherwise) actually take into account everything they do in order to make the purchase. It reminds of my mate, a prolific E-bayer. He told me about the £100 saving he'd made buying a tent, convieniently omitting to factor in the 150 mile round trip he had to make to collect it, plus the driving and internet time. Daft. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Double post again ???? Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 In 2007 I got a 17% saving not particularly bothered LHD/RHD but refuse to pay £44000 for a RHD Adria when a 2011 model with higher spec can be had for 33-35k LHD. Germany is a BIGGER market and more competition I guess. The UK is treasure island! for the rip of dealers...... I mean, 44k for a panel van and some UK home products are nearly £60.000 its laughable.....it changed with cars but motorhomes still a gold mine for the unscrupulous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankkia Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 When we changed last time I was quoted £39k to change in the UK. By the time I had paid Nick Legg for his services and added about £5k extras to the original spec that the UK dealer quoted on I paid £23k for the exchange. I leave it up to you decide if it was worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Yes Martyn well worth it, we saved well over 10 grand and we brought a RHD UK spec van a LHD was only 1300€ cheaper, being a Low Profile we felt a RHD was more saleable when time comes to change. If we had gone for an A class it would have been LHD. Yes it would be uninsured on the ferry but if it gets damaged you can claim against the ferry company. We had a caravan damaged once, the ferry company paid up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 my 2007 van was over £12000 more from Brownhills. Costs: A £60 flight to Belgium, picked up the van stayed overnight on Brugge aire and drove to ferry (£50) cheaper Belgian fuel and probably spent less then travelling from brownills. speedo was £240 and that is about it. Plus I have the satisfaction of using an excellent dealer? When I go on holiday I just pop in for damp check etc...where would I have been with brownills I wonder!lol certainly a lot poorer year on year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 lennyhb - 2011-01-30 5:45 PM Yes Martyn well worth it, we saved well over 10 grand and we brought a RHD UK spec van a LHD was only 1300€ cheaper, being a Low Profile we felt a RHD was more saleable when time comes to change. If we had gone for an A class it would have been LHD. Yes it would be uninsured on the ferry but if it gets damaged you can claim against the ferry company. We had a caravan damaged once, the ferry company paid up. What if it's you that does the damaging? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Well I can't argue with those savings, even allowing for some faffing about, which in some cases there must have been an element of. It's not something I've considered, (importing) but I may do when it comes to the next van purchase which incidentally was planned roughly for this year but life has got in the way, (as it does) so we could be looking at 2012 or 13. Plenty of time for research then 8-) Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Derek Uzzell - 2011-01-30 6:12 PM lennyhb - 2011-01-30 5:45 PM Yes Martyn well worth it, we saved well over 10 grand and we brought a RHD UK spec van a LHD was only 1300€ cheaper, being a Low Profile we felt a RHD was more saleable when time comes to change. If we had gone for an A class it would have been LHD. Yes it would be uninsured on the ferry but if it gets damaged you can claim against the ferry company. We had a caravan damaged once, the ferry company paid up. What if it's you that does the damaging? Very very unlikely to write it off driving onto the ferry, if anything happened more likely to be a little bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I don't think there is any need to get into an argument about this. Yes, you can save substantial sums importing from France, Belgium or Germany. How much depends on what you choose to buy, where you buy, and how good a deal you get on the day. We have done this twice.First was a Burstner bought new in France (Calais) in spring 2005, where we saved approximately £5,000 net on a van Costing about £35,000 in UK. So, 20% saved in round numbers. That saving is a direct comparison between the straight dealer price in France, and that in UK. In the event we got a discount from the Calais dealer that paid for travel, hotel, tunnel ticket, speedo dial and new RHD headlamps. I did not explore a UK discount, but doubt it would have been sufficient to cancel any saving, neither did I screw down the Calais dealer, just accepting his volunteered discount. The vehicle had a number of factory fit options so was not a stock item. I did all the import insurance, DVLA registration, and HMRC VAT settlement myself.The second (the Hobby Van) was imported by Bundesvan from Germany in mid-summer 2007. Coincidentally the price differential Germany/UK and the base price of the Van, was the same, bar loose change, as for the Burstner. We paid Bundesvan £30,000 for a van that was being sold in UK for £35,000. So, 20% saved again, in 2007. Nick Legg (Bundesvan) sourced the van, he gave me the reg no, I got insurance, he registered it with DVLA, paid the VED and first registration fee, then went and got it and delivered it to my house. Easy peasy, and no faff (for me!). In the event, there was a supply shortage, and Nick had to go to the Hobby factory, in the guise of the dealer's delivery driver, to get the van. The factory is in Fockbeck, near the Danish border, while the supplying dealer was just over the German border from France, near Strasbourg, and an awful lot nearer Calais than Fockbeck. Despite the additional time and cost to Nick, due to this extended delivery run, the van was delivered as, and when, he said it would be, and the additional cost to him was never raised. I call that straight.So either route can be beneficial, more so in cash terms as the cost of the vehicle rises, but it will not necessarily be so for every make.Re the insurance, this is quite simple. It is about risk, and how people feel about accepting the risk. What I, and I think Derek, have been trying to point out, this being an open forum, is where the risks lie. That is for the benefit of anyone else who may be reading this string while considering a personal import. Both of us have travelled the personal import route, have taken our own view on what risks we would accept, and neither of us is trying to frighten off anyone else who wishes to do so. What we are trying to do is inform them. The risks do exist: they do not have equal probability of arising, they do not all carry equal consequences, but exist they do, and it is a little unfair, and possibly misleading to others, to poo-poo them.For example, there is, IMO, a considerable difference in the risk between someone who is already experienced in driving LHD motorhomes in Europe, driving a £30,000 van a short distance to the Channel, and then a short distance to home, and someone who has no experience of driving LHD, motorhomes, or driving in Europe, bringing back an £80,000 motorhome from Bavaria to the Channel and then driving it to their home in South Shields!Anyone can read these posts and it seems only fair to highlight what to expect. Then they can make a reasonably informed judgement about what they want to do, and what level of risk they are happy to take in doing it. I think that is probably what we are all trying to achieve? Friends? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Sorry, re above post, I had my turnip head on, and not my mathematical head (think Worzel Gummidge! :-)). The percentage savings should, of course, be 14% and not 20%. Durrrrrr! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 lennyhb - 2011-01-30 5:45 PM Yes it would be uninsured on the ferry but if it gets damaged you can claim against the ferry company. We had a caravan damaged once, the ferry company paid up. You would be well-advised not to rely on this. AFAIK, the liability of the (maritime) carrier, is severely limited by the Athens Convention, which defines maximum liabilities for all sorts of personal, luggage and vehicle incidents.Your conditions of booking will (hopefully) provide reference to this. (as in the following extract from P&O Ts and Cs:(v) Your contract is governed by these Terms of Business and by all legislation compulsorily applicable, including the Athens Convention 1974 governing carriage of passengers and their luggage by seaThe limitations are quoted in "Special Drawing Rights", one of which equates at the moment to roughly a pound sterling.I've just found two figures quoted for the limit of liability on vehicles, but even the highest is nowhere near the value of a new motorhome!(One of the reasons I always check my vehicle insurance for in-transit cover on ferries). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Brian it would appear from your own figures it is no longer worth the bother of buying in Europe, the £5000 you saved would be wiped out by several factors. The pound/euro exchanged rate had changed a bit since 2007 but apart from this it is a lot more difficult to sell a LHD drive vehicle, as Eddie found out. If you resold or part ex in the UK this would more than wipe out the differance, also at the current time I would suggest you could get a big discount from a UK dealer. In the current market forget about buying in Europe, not worth the hassel for any small amount you may appear to save. I used to buy cars from Japan until about three years ago when the yen/pound rate was around the 200 to a pound, this has since dropped 25% and these were at least RHD. If you want a new LHD van then fine but personally I would have to see a very big saving to justify this and if you add up all the expense of importing then I cannot see how this is achieved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I think if you look into it, it is still well worth it. e.g. Hymer UK don't even bother to import half the models available & with the current exchange the differential has increased even more. Only way the exchange rate would make a difference is if the UK dealer had had one in stock for yonks & then it would probably be an old model. LHD drive coachbuilts more difficult to move on S/H, that's why we brought a RHD although I would have prefered LHD. With an A class LHD is not so much of a problem. What's to stop you ordering a RHD we did just had to wait a bit longer for delivery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I dont think it is that easy to sell anything at the moment and LHD have always been resonably popular here? I could have sold it on ebay cheap even with the appaling weather but better deal from German agent so holding of. It is in MMM this coming month though....... Exchange rate jumping from 1.15 - 1.20 at the moment so I totally disagree with what you are saying, especially when an identical vehicle is £10.000 cheaper in Europe? and that is just a panel van, good knows the differnce in coachbuilds these days*-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 lennyhb - 2011-01-31 12:16 PM ...What's to stop you ordering a RHD we did just had to wait a bit longer for delivery. I didn't know you could do this?(..not that I know nothing about importing vehicles anyway :$ ) I am assuming that some of these RHD vehicles would have been destined for the UK anyway..so would they be "UK spec"(speedo/headlights etc)? Also how would you come off warranty wise?..would the UK dealer networks touch it? :-S As I've said,I don't know anything on the subject and I'm just asking out of curiosity... ;-) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 UK dealers often won't touch personal imports not a problem we just have a long weekend in Belgium or if it's something simple we get the dealer to post the bits. Yes the vehicle side is UK spec & from 2008 in Hymers the habitation side is as well i.e. UK 13 amp sockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 JudgeMental - 2011-01-31 12:24 PM I dont think it is that easy to sell anything at the moment and LHD have always been resonably popular here? I could have sold it on ebay cheap even with the appaling weather but better deal from German agent so holding of. It is in MMM this coming month though....... Exchange rate jumping from 1.15 - 1.20 at the moment so I totally disagree with what you are saying, especially when an identical vehicle is £10.000 cheaper in Europe? and that is just a panel van, good knows the differnce in coachbuilds these days*-) Eddie the pound /euro in 2007, year I was talking about, was around 1.45. You keep saying £10,000 cheaper perhaps you could quote where these figures come from and how you arrive at this saving with all expenses including uk tax taken into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 lennyhb - 2011-01-31 12:16 PM I think if you look into it, it is still well worth it. e.g. Hymer UK don't even bother to import half the models available & with the current exchange the differential has increased even more. Only way the exchange rate would make a difference is if the UK dealer had had one in stock for yonks & then it would probably be an old model. LHD drive coachbuilts more difficult to move on S/H, that's why we brought a RHD although I would have prefered LHD. With an A class LHD is not so much of a problem. What's to stop you ordering a RHD we did just had to wait a bit longer for delivery. I have looked into it and feel it is not worth it. How the hell can the exchange rate not make a differance, you have to pay in Euro's and with poor rate, compared with 2007, it will cost you more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Not worth it? UK price: Adria Twin SP with basic extras £44000 any UK dealer I have spoken to (3) reluctant to discount 1 penny although one might throw in an awning :-S German price (much nicer spec) approx 30.000 Euro @ 1.165 = £25.750 + 20% vat = £30900 + £2000 for expenses, registering and getting the thing = £32900 more or less And thats is on a small panel van *-) happy to look at other price examples if someone tells me a make and model and UK price...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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