Rapido Re-Plating

[stevec176]

Having just had my Rapido 665f weighed I find that to carry really the basics my van is 40kg overweight. How do I go about getting it re-plated and can it be re-plated down to its original plate when I decide to sell?

[Mickt]

Contact SV Tech , They are at shows or do a search on the forums for contact details.

[Brian Kirby]

stevec176 - 2017-07-26 4:30 PM

 

Having just had my Rapido 665f weighed I find that to carry really the basics my van is 40kg overweight. How do I go about getting it re-plated and can it be re-plated down to its original plate when I decide to sell?

As you have weighed the van, is either axle above (or close to) its weight limit? The MAM can usually be increased quite simply by using some of the design tolerances, but increasing the limit on an axle is a different ball game.

[Derek Uzzell]

Steve

 

I note from this discussion

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Motorhome-Weight-Limits-what-is-your-opinion-/46483/

 

that you purchased your Rapido new in 2016 and its current Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) is currently 3500kg.

 

The Fiat Ducato chassis your 665F is built on has a MAM of 3650kg and Rapido will have offered a no-extra-cost choice of having the motorhome with that MAM, or with a MAM of 3500kg.

 

A MAM of 3500kg is attractive in countries like France where the majority of motorhome owners’ driving-licence entitlements limit them to vehicles with a MAM no greater than 3500kg. So there are no technical problems in ‘up-plating’ your 665F’s MAM to 3650kg as no ‘mechanical’ changes to its present specification should be needed. Having said that (and as Brian warns), if either of your motorhome’s maximum axle-loadings (1850kg (front axle) and 2000kg (rear axle)) is also being exceeded when the vehicle is fully loaded, changes to tyres and/or the suspension are likely to be be required.

 

Taking into account weighbridge tolerances (they are normally designed to weigh vehicles far heavier than a 3.5tonne motorhome) and how small the overload is, can’t you work around this problem merely by carrying less fresh-water (say 50-litres rather than the full 120-litres maximum) and/or carry lighter ’stuff (eg. aluminium-frame chairs not steel-frame ones)?

 

If you do decide up-plating is essential, as MickT has said, get in touch with SVTech for advice.

 

http://www.svtech.co.uk/

 

When you came to sell the vehicle, ‘down-plating’ back to 3500kg should be very straightforward.

[Brian Kirby]

I view of Derek's comment, one way around your problem might be to go back to Rapido via your dealer, and ask them to issue the official plate for 3,650kg MAM that it would have carried had you exercised that option when ordering. I expect there would be a charge for this, but who knows, as a goodwill gesture? See below.

 

The awning fitted will, at a guess, have added in the region of 30kg to its MIRO.

 

In your earlier post (thanks for the link Derek), you said it was weighed "ready for our next outing", without saying what that actual state of load that was.

 

The technical supplement to the Rapido brochure states that: "The unladen weight of motorhomes is determined in compliance with the laws currently in force and includes the vehicle in working order, the driver (75 kg), the gas bottle, fresh water (depending on model: 20 L) and fuel tanks up to 90 % of their capacity with a tolerance of +/-5 % (in accordance with European Directive EC 92/21). The declared unladen weight in running order of 2,980kg will have been measured in that state. You will note that, in common with many manufacturers, only 20L of fresh water is included.

 

So, if you filled your 120L fresh water tank for the trip, your available payload will immediately have been reduced to 320kg. Your wife also reduces payload by her weight, as will you, if you weigh more than 75kg (if you weigh less you get to keep the change! :-)) But, assuming your combined weights are 150kg, that would reduce payload to 245kg. Deduct the awning, and you're down to, say, 215kg.

 

You will note that the above supplement also says "Empty weight: the value shown in the catalogue based on a mechanical gearbox and entry level engines without towing capability." Any engine or gearbox options selected will have further reduced payload, as will (I assume the standard UK fit) UK pack at 27.6kg, bringing your starting payload down to in the region of 187.5kg. There is a declared tolerance of +/- 5% (my underlining above) on the declared unladen weight in running order (usually Mass in Running Order) of 2,980kg, that might further reduce (or if you're lucky increase!) payload by 150kg. That is the extreme, but it is possible that your particular van weighed somewhat more than its declared MIRO.

 

Your van is 7.5 metres long, and it is quite an ask to get vans of that length onto the road at 3,500kg with a realistically usable payload. I have to say that your dealer who, as a "professional", could reasonably be expected to know more about motorhomes and their weights than his client, should have been pointing out to you that the payload figure at 3,500kg MAM was "tight" before any packs or options were added, and suggesting it would be preferable to go for the free upgrade to 3,650kg. It is for that reason I'm suggesting you go back to him. If he didn't give warnings as to payload, I think you should complain gently that he didn't offer this highly relevant advice, and lean on him to get the upgrade from Rapido retrospectively - at no cost to you.

 

However, before doing this do check the information from the weighbridge to see if it gives the individual axle loads, and if it doesn't, visit the weighbridge again with an exact inventory of what is on board and its various weights, and get those axle weights. At the risk of being a pain, by "exact inventory", I do mean everything you have put into, or added to, the van, with the water and fuel tanks brimmed, and all gas cylinders present and, ideally, full. You need to get a figure for the van in its heaviest likely condition, representing the worst case, because if you know that, you can be confident that it will never be overloaded. If the rear axle (the most vulnerable to overload) load then falls within its 2,000kg limit, you can be confident that it will remain so in use.

 

I'm assuming you have a driving licence that allows you to drive vehicles of more than 3,500kgMAM.

 

Sorry if this all sounds rather extreme, but if you verify those axle loads are comfortably within limits and get the upgrade to 3,650kg, you will have a comfortable payload and can just get on with enjoying your van.

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2017-07-27 12:14 PM

 

In view of Derek's comment, one way around your problem might be to go back to Rapido via your dealer, and ask them to issue the official plate for 3,650kg MAM that it would have carried had you exercised that option when ordering. I expect there would be a charge for this, but who knows, as a goodwill gesture?...

 

 

Presumably Rapido would need to issue a replacement Certificate of Conformity (CoC) with the motorhome’s MAM stated as 3650kg.

 

Fiat’s ’Stage 1' CoC for my 640F states the MAM as 3650kg, but Rapido’s overriding 'Stage 2’ CoC states the MAM as 3500kg.

[Brian Kirby]

Don't know, Derek. I got our van plated down to 3,500kg by Hymer (because I found that in practise I - just! - didn't need the 3,700kg at which I'd originally ordered it) and they supplied a new Hymer plate (actually a two layer transfer) that exactly replicates the original, saving the MAM. No revision to the CoC was involved, although the original, being for 3,700kg would, logically, encompass the lower MAM.

 

As these are type approvals and not individual approvals, I would imagine that a "master" CoC is held by Rapido at 3,650kg, and copies merely issued with either 3,500kg or 3,650kg recorded, as required by the buyer. So it may well be the case that a copy of the CoC would be required to show 3,650MAM. However, that shouldn't become a major stumbling block as the "master" should already exist. It is, after all, a new very vehicle.

[Brock]

http://lda2.svtech.co.uk

 

This link to the svtech Load Distribution Programme will enable you to see where you need/can shave off some weight and the impact on your axle loading and overall vehicle weight.

 

SVTech are not the only firm who can organise the uprating/downrating for you. However, they are probably the one most used by motorhomers. You can even do it yourself.

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Uprating-vehicle-weight-yourself/38746/

 

Ensure the drivers have a C1 licence entitlement and if they are within sight of being 70, the impact that will have on their licence. Tolls may be more expensive and some road/parking restrictions are set at 3500kg.

 

I uprated my van this year through SVTech who were very helpful in telling me what I can do, what I need to do to increase the axle loadings further, and of course, what I can't do. I just wanted peace of mind and the occasional ability to carry a second passenger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tonyishuk]

It might pay to have a word with Rapido suppliers. I recall a conversation with Wokingham Mhomes that at nominal cost Rapido would supply a up rated plate to replace the original. In our case from 3.50 to 3.85 ton. Basicaly the mhome was just down plated to sell at the lower weight.

 

We did not take up the option as I was getting to a certain age !

 

Obviously the advice by other contributors needs to be taken.

 

Rgds

[stevec176]

Thanks all. The van was fuelled but water minimal for the weighing. Didn't think about possible general weight limitations, have C1 licence, but suppose will leave as it is for now and try and leave some of the wifes clothes and shoes behind.

[Brian Kirby]

The only thing I'd say in reply is the longer you leave it, the more difficult it is liable to become to get it plated up via Rapido. I say this only because if Rapido will issue a new plate you'll have a van that will present as completely authentic, which should be an advantage when you come to sell. Since you already know it's flirting with overload, a call to the dealer who sold it should give you some idea of whether this is possible. Personally, I would.

[stevec176]

Thanks Brian, I'll check with the dealer and go from there.