Westies2803 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Guys I have a Elddis Autoquest 100, filling the water tank has always been a bit hit and miss in relation to the tank accepting the water via the Whale12v pump. We are due to go for our first two full weeks away in the van. So decided to purchase a new Whale 12v pump as I thought the issue was the pump. However I am trying it out today and still have the same problem. The pump is pumping to the water entry point but isn't going any further. When you disengage the pump you just get blow back. Any help would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
campervanista Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 The problem could be an internal valve failing to open as it may 'think' the tank is already full, so the suspects are a sensor or the valve itself. We have a Bailey with this system and find it most user unfriendly, we fill our tank by lifting the trap in the floor and unscrewing the big lid of the tank. On a recent 6 week trip we met 2 other Bailey owners who do exactly the same and did not have a kind word to say about this system. Why complicate something that is so simple, involving pumps and valves that can fail and electrical contacts in the presence of water? Filling the tank using the flat hose takes ages compared to the traditional system and can be embarrassing when others are waiting. We had an Elddis some time ago with the Whale system and did notice that it was dropped for the following year's model. Manufacturers who make vans with this system may one day realize they are handing a gift to the competition. Ron Pharo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 campervanista - 2015-06-17 11:10 AM Filling the tank using the flat hose takes ages compared to the traditional system and can be embarrassing when others are waiting. Sorry Ron, but I have to stand up for the Whale system as fitted to our Bailey. Lift the flap and plug in the Whale connector, unroll the hose and attach to the tap. Turn on the tap and 5 or 6 minutes later you have a full tank evidenced by water overflowing under the van. It works really well and we had no drama filling up at all the timed-fill aires we visited recently. From empty to full (94 litres, measured) takes us 7.5 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninian Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hi, Possibly your tank isn't vented properly and the pump is just dead heading against the air pressure in the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westies2803 Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Guys many thanks for the replies. Does this type of system have a non return valve? Had a look under the seat within the van and followed the hose to where it appears to enter the fresh water holding tank. Located within water pipe is what looks like some sort of control switch / valve! Could this be sticking or faulty as was suggested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solwaybuggier Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Steve928 - 2015-06-17 1:58 PM campervanista - 2015-06-17 11:10 AM Filling the tank using the flat hose takes ages compared to the traditional system and can be embarrassing when others are waiting. Sorry Ron, but I have to stand up for the Whale system as fitted to our Bailey. Lift the flap and plug in the Whale connector, unroll the hose and attach to the tap. Turn on the tap and 5 or 6 minutes later you have a full tank evidenced by water overflowing under the van. It works really well and we had no drama filling up at all the timed-fill aires we visited recently. From empty to full (94 litres, measured) takes us 7.5 minutes. I don't understand how we all have such different experiences - we also have a Bailey, and I completely agree with Ron. I just wish Bailey would give the chance to opt for a simple system. (And before anyone says, I do know to make sure the filler flap is down to "pull" the connector in!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 just picked up my new van (Elddis sunseeker 115) and part of the advertising quoted that it didn't have the whale water filler lol however, it does have the whale water heater and blown air heating, which so far works great. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artheytrate Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Hi westies, remove the solenoid valve and there is a metal filter on the intake side, check that the filter is not blocked. If the solenoid filter is clear then I think that the solenoid valve is faulty. Don't pay the £54 price of a new one as I got a replacement off ebay from china for £2.54. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Solwaybuggier - 2015-06-17 9:06 PM I don't understand how we all have such different experiences - we also have a Bailey, and I completely agree with Ron. I just wish Bailey would give the chance to opt for a simple system. (And before anyone says, I do know to make sure the filler flap is down to "pull" the connector in!) It sounds like perhaps there are different versions of the Whale system fitted to our respective vans which might explain the difference in our experiences. On mine the connector just pushes into the Whale socket and clips on either side locate it. The clips then have to be squeezed to release the connector. The flap is just a cover for the socket and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 AutoSleeper used to fit the dreadful whale system at least to their PVCs. Now,they still fit it but also fit a standard filling point as standard. No prizes for guessing which one we use on ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Soap Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Sadly, I also have the Whale system fitted to my Autosleeper motorhome which whilst it works it is a bit of a pain. i used to manage quite well with cans or a hose on previous motorhomes. So my question is; has anyone fitted an ordinary water filler cap either in place of the Whale adaptor or even better fitted an ordinary filler point "teed" into the hose leading from the Whale adaptor to the tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Makes you wonder why Whale ever designed and marketed the system and why some manufacturers chose to fit it. Don't they try these things out and just what advantages is it claimed to have? Bailey may be forgiven due to lack of experience with motorhomes but even they should have woken up by now. I did explain the problems to,one of their designers when they first launched their motorhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brabander Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I also had a Bailey until last year and I found the Whale system very frustrating. The speed with which you can fill your tank depends on the inlet water pressure. At my house that was usually fine but some camp sites have very low water pressures. I remember that at one camp site after 30 minutes my tank was only HALF full. Whale developed this system originally for caravans, it is not really suitable for motorhomes with tanks >80 litres. The problem is that the pressure drop due the the very small Whale orifice is simply too large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Joe Soap - 2015-06-24 9:15 AM Sadly, I also have the Whale system fitted to my Autosleeper motorhome which whilst it works it is a bit of a pain. i used to manage quite well with cans or a hose on previous motorhomes. So my question is; has anyone fitted an ordinary water filler cap either in place of the Whale adaptor or even better fitted an ordinary filler point "teed" into the hose leading from the Whale adaptor to the tank? Welcome to the Out&AboutLive forums. Modifying a motorhome with a Whale/Truma water-filling system so that it had a ‘hole-in-the-bodywork’ water-filler was discussed in this 2012 forum thread (some of the links may be out of date). http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Whale-system/28749/ How practicable it might be to make the type of modifications you’ve proposed would depend on the motorhome’s design. It would be a challenging exercise and one would really have to loathe the Whale/Truma system to contemplate attempting it. I’ve never read of anyone doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 As I've posted above I'm entirely happy with my Whale Aquasmart system and would choose this over the standard open wide-bore filler every day. It has, however, taken 2 modifications to my system, one to the Whale connector itself and the other (which was required anyway) to the van's water system to reach this state. As supplied it was indeed very slow to fill. To avoid any confusion, this is the filler attachment that I have: http://www.whalepumps.com/rv/product.aspx?Category_ID=10005&Product_ID=11&FriendlyID=Aquasource-Mains The green 'plug' contains both a pressure-limiting device and a non-return valve. The pressure-limiting device is to protect the van's system from over pressure and is I believe more relevant to those caravans which remain permanently connected to the mains water supply. It would require major surgery to the 'plug' to remove this element but it doesn't appear to cause any noticable restriction to the flow at normal water pressures. Removal of the non-return valve, however, does allow increased flow and is a 2 minute job; just open up the 'plug' and pop it out. On my van the wall socket is just a plain hose attachment from where 12mm hose leads directly the 1.5m or so to the water tank without passing through any other devices. My initial slow filling was caused by an inadequate breather which created back pressure. Once an adequate breather was provided the fill time reduced considerably to where we are now which is 94 litres in 7.5 minutes. The tank is always full before I've finished servicing the rest of the van, no water is wasted and I keep my feet dry! I would respectfully suggest that troubleshooting your existing installations should be easier and hopefully more fruitful than trying to replace the system with a traditional filler. We stayed on an aire recently where a small electric pump was used to pump the water uphill on demand from the farmhouse. It came in short spurts and the pressure was low enough to allow you to stop the flow by holding a finger under the tap. The pressure wasn't even enough to keep the lay-flat hose rigid and we both had to support it along its length to stop it collapsing. The Whale system wasn't a problem though and we filled up no slower than you could have with any other method given the very poor flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Soap Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Thanks for all the information and details of the various links - I will now have a think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxbasher Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Thanks for the great advice about the gauze filter on the solenoid . Water filling issues sorted in about 5 minutes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artheytrate Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 boxbasher - 2017-08-04 10:08 PM Thanks for the great advice about the gauze filter on the solenoid . Water filling issues sorted in about 5 minutes! Thanks for letting us know Boxbasher. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armstrong2 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 I owned a elddis 100.with a whale pump in system.i had a similar problem to yours.i found out what was causing it.it was the in inline mesh filter.lift the the seat with the seat belts locate the water pipe coming into the van disconnect it.take out the filter inspect it.you will probably find it blocked.clean it.or remove it whch is what I did.should fix problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armstrong2 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Do you find the whale heating noisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 Hi , I have the 115 with the whale heating and yes it is noisy, I asked Whale at the nec show as there is supposed to be a bit of kit to make it quieter but they said my year of van had it fitted as standard.! However it dosen't have to be on full all the time and turned down to the lowest setting it is quiet enough to run all night (for me) ours is only the 2kw version, dread to think how noisy the 4kw is. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 We too have experienced the user unfriendly side of the Whale system on an Autosleeper and I too see it as turning a simple process that has worked well for many years into more complicated system that can be a real pain in pump and all for no good reason. It may work well on a caravan or for those who remain sited where you fetch water to the van but for those of us who move about and take the van to the tap it is not a help. My cure was to remove the internal solenoid and replace it with a short length of tube and to remove the pointless one way valve from the socket to increase the flow rate. It worked admirably for me but do be careful when you take the socket apart as several small bits to relocate in the right order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armstrong2 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 breakaleg - 2017-08-05 3:32 PM Hi , I have the 115 with the whale heating and yes it is noisy, I asked Whale at the nec show as there is supposed to be a bit of kit to make it quieter but they said my year of van had it fitted as standard.! However it dosen't have to be on full all the time and turned down to the lowest setting it is quiet enough to run all night (for me) ours is only the 2kw version, dread to think how noisy the 4kw is. Pete I have the 4kw system in my elddis and and it's noisy.spoke to whale and they said that's how it is.nothing can be done.the person who designed it.wants to try and sleep with it on.even on night setting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeirish Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 I'm late to this discussion but it does seem to have some information that I have been looking for. The situation is that we have just bought a 2013 AS Broadway with this Whale filler system. We had one on our previous van that was useless (it took forever to fill the tank) so we just used to lift a hatch in the floor, open the filler cap in the tank and fill using a hose. But this new van has not such access only the Whale socket. So can I replace this with something simpler. Is there a reason why this is actually there (venting, avoiding air locks)? If it can be replaced what can I replace it with and are there any instruction videos online or other help. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artheytrate Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 joeirish - 2018-09-04 3:41 PM I'm late to this discussion but it does seem to have some information that I have been looking for. The situation is that we have just bought a 2013 AS Broadway with this Whale filler system. We had one on our previous van that was useless (it took forever to fill the tank) so we just used to lift a hatch in the floor, open the filler cap in the tank and fill using a hose. But this new van has not such access only the Whale socket. So can I replace this with something simpler. Is there a reason why this is actually there (venting, avoiding air locks)? If it can be replaced what can I replace it with and are there any instruction videos online or other help. thanks There’s lots of info on this subject on the Auto Sleepers forum, ASOF. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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