veletron

Having gotten home from my recent break, I thought I would add to this. - I measured the oil quantity that came out: 2.7L - I drained the (incorrect) new oil, and measured that, also 2.7L despite my having added 2.9L. Only real explanation for this is the presense of a 'Dam' when filling via the breather hole. - Given the above, I refilled with 2.7L of Experya as per MLGU gearbox requirement. Note that my using the wrong oil (Geartech) seemed to have resulted in a more notchy gear change, which is why I was keen to change it for what I not know to be the right oil Experya. Note that my drain plug did not have a copper washer, I note that other folks' did have a copper washer fitted. As such I added a copper washer to mine 16mm/22mm/1mm As expected, no metalic muck attached to the magnet on second change and the gearbox has essentially had a flush!! Thanks to all for their help here. I Re-applied some lanoguard too after washing off all the damned road salt.

Yes, I had exactly the same issue with my Sterling Lithiums, but I never used the app anyway as I had a more reliable AH counter. I work from the van fairly often and drained the sterlings dry a couple times, the 460AH fogstar allows more time stationary or without hookup. I do like the Sterling 70A B2B thus far. Incidentally, I found a cable on ebay that allows you to charge LB's from mode 2 EV chargers. Might get me one of those! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325614445216

Back in October, I upgraded my 2xSterling 100AH lithiums to a 460AH lithium from Fogstar. I thought I would provide an update. Basically the battery is a game changer! I run it with a sterling Power 70A B2B which puts 60A into the battery when driving (the 70A is its max current draw), I also bought a lithium compatible 1.8KW/50A Inverter/charger from AliExpress for £135 (mainly because it fits under the passenger seat and neither the Victron nor Renogy chargers would (the £135 cost was nice too!). Off the inverter I run a kettle, toaster and hairdrier. On the roof is a lowly 200W of solar because I have no space for more. I fitted all this back in October. Back to the battery, I am an electronics/firmware/software engineer (medical electronics), and I quite often work from the van. This factoid was the main driver for the upgrade as it needs to run a workstation grade laptop that will draw about 8A @12V under load. Currently 5 days in to the latest WfV sesh with 161AH drawn. Expensive, yes, but dropping in price fast. This time next year, such a capacity will be £500 rather than the £1200 that I paid - there is obviously also the additonal expense of lithium compatible on the move, solar and mains chargers to consider. I rarely use sites and if I do I never get a hookup for me motorhoming is about freedom and going on holiday to a 'council estate' of many other vans is just not my bag! My next van is likely to be a self build and aside from heating the domestic side will be 100% electric utilising 4 off 610AH batteries for 31KW/H of capacity on a 48V system. Anyway unlike my lead acids which always disapointed with their performance, lithium and in particular the fogstar has impressed. Karen

@onecal I don't have a 'such a worry' about this. If I did then I would not have set off for three weeks in the van! I would say that I have a 'query' about the gearbox oil, that has garnered both facts and opinions that I shall consider. Your opinion is just one of those presented, and presenting the same opinion over and over does not add to its validity in any way! Your opinion is no more valid or invalid than any others expressed here. Anyway, I got my answers so thanks again to all!

I never received a paper manual with my vehicle unfortunately, but I have read elsewhere that since 2015, fiat started stating 2.9L for my gearbox also. Later versions having been stamped 2.9L on the casing. The gearbox never changed spec, just the oil amount changed. Looking back in time, there was a similar occurrence on the older x244 due to inadequate lubrication of 5th gear when the previous stated amount of oil was used. When I get home I will measure what came out and stick the same in using Experya. The fact that the motor parts retailers list geartech for my engine shows the confusion. I will treat the previous change as a gearbox flush!! If I had gotten it done at my usual garage (note that I don't use fiat garages, too expensive), I would have no clue what they had put in there! Thanks to all who responded with useful info! I should prob have had this discussion before changing out the oil lol! Karen

Thanks all. Having tried to contact fiat technical and get a sensible answer to questions in the past, its simply not worth the time or effort. I guess what I have put in is fine, but I did also see the comments re Matryx. Maybe i'll replace with Matryx when I return from latest trip. I'll also measure how much came out as I put 2.9L back in. As for the engine I have been using Fuchs TITAN GT1 PRO C-2 5W30 for sometime now without issues.

Hi There is alot of conflicting information re the correct gearbox oil for the ducato so wondered what others had put in. I bought Tutela Geartech SAE 75-85W GL4 as it was the recommended oil on two separate sites: https://www.fiatworkshop.co.uk/parts/Ducato_2014_-_2018_Gearbox_Oil.shtml and shop4parts After draining, I added 2.9L via the gearbox breather (long pipe and funnel required) Now wondering whether I have used the correct oil as seen Tutela Matryx and Experya also mentioned! I read various comments about not using a GL4+ or GL5 oil as it messes with the synchros. Any advice from others?

My van is never 'stored', its always in use at least weekends so I cant answer that. I also have a camera, router and other gubbins in there that are on 24/7 so the solar panel runs that.

Yes, the SOC is nonsense - I am aware that some DALY BMS have SOC issues. I don't know whether Sterling are using fixed BMS in newer batteries. These days I just ignore it, mine say 99% when batteries are at 13.1-13.2V I have now gotten to the point where I quit worrying about what the BMS says - I have an AH counter, this is a far better way of gauging what's left - I have still been able to boil a kettle via my inverter after having used 75% of the capacity (eg 150AH drawn), and I have taken them as low as 20AH remaining across the pair and they were still going. Basically unless I really try, I wont run em down! Karen

Hi. Interesting, but I don't think i'll upgrade. I have only ever used the NASA to count AH used, and current one will do that perfectly with lithium. When it gets to 150AH used, I know I need to think about finding some sunshine or moving on! Karen

If they are in the van out in the cold then this is probably your answer. Also, unless they are physically isolated from the van, there will still be a small load. Mine do the same, but when away, my AH counter shows that I am able to pull 180 AH from the pair so I am not too worried. The final 10% is also harder to get at because heavy loads (inverter) cause the voltage to dive, and then either the inverter cuts out or the BMS cuts the juice. They were still supplying juice after 180AH, but certainly not for running an inverter. The BMS means that you don't get the gradual fade you get with LA - all of a sudden with lithium the lights just go out and the only way to get em back on again it to supply some charge! Karen

These keep appearing on my FB feed. 40A B2B with Lithium mode. Competitively priced Vs Sterling https://uk.renogy.com/12v-40a-dc-to-dc-on-board-battery-charger

Rule of thumb: heat is bad! Heat is caused when current passes through a resistance, current flowing through a resistance leads to a voltage drop across that resistance, that heat is wasted power PowerWasted=Current X Voltage drop. Get everything running, and then with a multimeter, measure the voltage across the cable/fuse combo eg from the Victron output to the lithiums on the +ve (red) cable only this gives the voltage drop. You know the current 24.5A so wasted power is 24.5A X Measured voltage drop eg if you measured 0.25V drop, then you are wasting 6.125W. Additionally, measure the voltage drop between the engine battery and the INPUT to the Victron B2B, work out the watts wasted here too and add it to the watts wasted above to get your total On my van, I use 4AWG / 25mmSq Welding cable, and I overrate fuses as well. Fuses are there mainly to protect the cables. I would use 40A/45A+ for a 30A B2B also, not all fuses are equal. ANL fuses are superior to AGU fuses, and the wee small automotive blade type fuses are not appropriate for B2B application. A fuse close to its maximum current WILL get hot!! With 4AWG and an 80A fuse, nothing is warm in my van charging @60A for several hours. I should also say that at 60A with 4AWG cables you still need to keep cable lengths 2.5M or less, for longer runs, you need to even thicker cable! Karen

Hi A depleted lithium will pull whatever current it can get hold off. If there is decent cabling and a connection to the alternator via a standard split/charge system, then you end up with the BMS in the battery being the only thing present to limit the current. Not all alternators are built the same most will be just fine feeding massive currents (assuming the fuse allows this), but you are putting huge stress on the alternator particularly at tickover and possibly also on the BMS depending on the current flowing. Additionally, basic alternator charging has no means to reduce the voltage to 'float' once the lithium's are charged, in fact as the charge approaches completion and the current drops, the voltage from the alternator at the battery will increase, and once again, you are relying only on the BMS to prevent the battery becoming damaged. Given the price of these batteries, I feel that spending the extra on a BMS designed to charge them optimally is a reasonable investment. Karen

Hi Don't worry, we are bouncing info off one-another. Its early days for lithium, and they are clearly not yet fit+forget - mainly due to easily remedied quality issues. We are beta-testing this tech for the masses, within 5 years, I cant imagine lead-acid for motorhomes still being a thing, and by then LiFePo4 will be fit+forget, and under £250 a pop! Still liking mine as well, esp now that winter has come along and I can do 4 days off grid without moving, watch telle and boil a leccy kettle. Thus far I have drawn 180AH out of mine (2x100AH) during a long weekend. I'd have needed 4x100AH Lead-Acid weighing over 100KG for similar real-world, no-damage capacity. Off the back of comments here, I have reduced the voltage of my mains charger to 14V/13.4V (boost/float). I am using a Sterling 40A Pro Charge Ultra off their surplus page - which has a custom mode. Hopefully this solves any cooked battery potential and limits the possibility of single-cell run-away. Karen

Crikey, I bet that wasnae cheap! You'll be running your house off the van once that lot is in! I'm born and bred in Braunton, so I know Mullacott well. Karen

They did not set the BMS up properly i'm afraid so the balancing never kicks in. To resolve this, I changed the settings on the BMS (via the bluetooth app), and also changed my mains charger settings to make it slow charge the battery at 5A - this gives the BMS more time to balance the cells. The Daly BMS has a number of weaknesses including the fact that the password cannot be changed from the default - this potentially means that someone else could change the settings on your batteries! See screenshots for my settings. PW is 123456 IIRC Karen

Hi I an leaving the BMS to handle any temperature-based compensation, this is on the recommendation of Stirling Power. For their own B2B temp comp is disabled for LifePO4 anyway, and for my EPSolar I have simply removed it. The BMS will do a good enough job on its own and having both connected will lead to competition between compensators! Karen

Hi Sorry for the delay responding. I only have one cable per terminal from the batteries. I common the -ve cables using the current shunt from my BM1 current monitor while the +ve is commoned with a covered bus bar. I've also made use of where my inverter is located to use the studs on this as a link point for my B2B and batteries. See pics. The other box you can see in pics is an aux fuse box for the many gadgets I have in the van! Due to inverter use, the whole lot is wired using 4AWG welding cable. Batteries are fused at 80A individually close to the battery using resettable fuses. Karen

Hi I'm between houses and WfV at the moment and hardly any sun this past few days. The 2x100AH LiFePO4's have been holding up well with 174AH discharge from a starting point of 100%. Could not have done that with my Exide LA's. Still 35% indicated as remaining. Hungry laptop + inverter is the source of most of that drain. Karen

For maximum life, I would say that 2.5V per cell is too low. See the SoC chart here: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/lifepo4-voltage-chart.3156/ In normal operation of course you won't get anywhere near it anyway so it's a means of protecting the battery from low SoC if you leave something turned on. I have set mine to 3V giving a cutoff at 12V. When I manage to get the batteries down to a low SoC (winter!), I'll refine this for when the inverter is running to avoid it getting a it's juice cut due to supply voltage drop at low SoC. Karen

(Very) Early days yet but initial observations: 1) The cell voltages (12V LiFePo4's have 4 cells) balanced themselves over the 1st week, the BMS doing its job, the bluetooth app for the batteries shows what's going on 2) The charge limit was 3.75V per cell, reading online, this is too high, between 3.65 and 3.75V there is less than 1% of capacity. I changed the limit to 3.65V using the bluetooth app. 3) Once any cell reaches the limit above, the BMS disconnects incoming charge, battery is 'fully charged' 4) Drawing power from the battery causes the charger to reconnect until the disconnect voltage 3.65V per cell is reached again 5) There are two mosfets in the BMS one for charging one for discharging, both individually controlled by the BMS 6) The batteries soak up solar better than my old lead acid's and I note from my BM100 Amp/Hour counter than the batteries are more efficient than my old lead-acid's eg if I draw 100AH, adding 106AH brings be back to full charge. On my old batteries 130AH of charge would be required to replace 100AH drawn 7) Discharge voltage much more constant vs SOC (compared to my old LA's) Starts at 13.6 volts calls to about 13.2Volts with 20% remaining 8) Even with my inverter pulling 100A the battery voltages don't 'dive' 100A of draw knocks just 0.1V off the voltage. This has advantages for both inverter and switched-mode loads in that a higher voltage results in less current being pulled P=I*V In contrast loading my fully charged LA's would see the voltage dive from 12.8V to under 12V. 9) My Sterling B2B works better with the new batts vs the old LA's. With the old batteries, it might have started at 50A, but this gradually dropped off such that by the time the cells were 75% full they (pair) were pulling <20A between them. This meant that charging took an age. The lifePo's will pull the full 50A until they are 95% full before it drops off. My B2B is a Sterling 60A unit, but remember that's input current; the boosted output current is more like 50A due to higher voltages and the fact that nothing is 100% efficient. Sorry for the geek-speak!! Will need to wait for winter for a proper test! Karen

A friend has ordered 4x280AH LiFePo4 bare cells from China for £480 add a BMS and a case for another £100 and he should have a 12V 280AH LiFePO4 for < £600. Will be interested to see how he gets on. Karen

Well they showed up and they are installed. The sun is not doing much to charge them. A new mains charger which is LiFePO4 compatible and charges at 50A shows up today (again Sterling Power), the existing mains charger did not have a gel setting on it so was 14.7V/13.8V the boost is too high for LiFePO4 and at that cost I don't want to be killing them! Some pics here (scroll to the end). https://photos.veletron.com/index.php?/category/222 NB: those angle brackets have served me well, they have just been re-adjusted for their third battery type. Far more versatile that an off-the-shelf battery tray. Struggle lifting out my old 140AH Exide's @ 30KG a pop, Loved the ease of getting those new ones in. Will have to wait to next weekend to see how they perform, rubbish weather this weekend. When the Mains charger shows, it will take the position of the existing B2B under the passenger seat while the B2B moves to where the old mains charger was - wont fit the other way. Karen

Yup, saw the video. Impressive killing of lead-acid in that video. I am pretty hard on batteries myself, but I do get 3 years out of them! I'm an electronics & software engineer by trade, so fully understand the tech etc, but little info out there on longevity, and one would want a £540 battery to last 10 years! That said, the Sterling test probably represents several years of real world usage done over 6 months. I have placed an order now for 2x100AH LiFePO4 as the 120's wont fit, so I will either be boring you all with tales of Lithium being the future, or tales of woe to save others the bother!! I am hoping that the B2B will work better with the lithium's, with my LA, it runs at maybe 50-55A for an hour, but then the batteries steadily draw less juice despite being nowhere near full. Will be nice if the LiFePO4's do the 55A until like 90% full before tapering off. The laptop is an octa-core i9 graphics workstation with a high end video card, 64GB memory, 2TB SSD etc. Power draw comes down to a more reasonable 60W when its just word-processing! The laptop screen is not big enough so I have an old dell 28" monitor that I take away too that draws another 30W. Karen