Fiat /Peugeot or Ford chassis?

[Guest Dave]

I would be very grateful for some guidance from those among you that have had both, on the relative benefits of having a coachbuilt motorhome on either a Fiat/Peugeot or a Ford Transit chassis. I am currently thinking of going for the latter but want to ensure I'm not making a terrible mistake! Any help would be appreciated, perhaps including ease of servicing both here and on the continent (we intend to do a lot of full-timing over there). If the help is only pointing me in the direction of a useful article in a magazine it would still be most appreciated.

[Guest mike T]

Dave - fiat / peugeot have had a fair run at having the biggest slice of motorhome build over the last 7 or 8 years. The biggest argument has been the ease of access (no gearstick to get in the way when getting into & out of the cab from the caravan bit), and the options of engines / chassis available, and of course the price. The transit was seen as a bit of a rough diamond but hugely reliable, and possibly cheaper on servicing. Now the new Renault master is coming in & many of the MH manufacturers are using this - it gives more variety in choices available. I'm sure MMM has some articles on the pros & cons, also look through the road tests. Why not try www.motorhomefacts.com - somebody on there will have experience of all the various choices.

[Guest Mel E]

Mike is broadly right - and the Renault Master is a superb base vehicle (my choice for my own new van conversion). But, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, the new Ford Transit is also an excellent choice and has received excellent reviews - especially with the new Duratorq engine. It is available in rear wheel drive as well as front, though this seems to be rarely used for conversions, I assume because the floor would be 10cm higher - if available, go for it, since rear drive is vastly preferable, both for much reduced turning circle and also for vastly improved traction. Only one less good point: although the Transit is supposedly Europe's biggest selling van of its size, its popularity in the UK is a key to this and you will find it easier to get Fiat or Renault servicing in continental Europe.

[Guest Dave]

Mike and Mel: Many thanks for your advice. While I am still leaning more towards the Ford (mainly because the three makes I am looking at seem to use it the most) its comforting to know that the others are also OK if I decide to change my criteria(which could easily happen!). It looks like the servicing/repair issue could be crucial, especially as I read recently (I think in regard to the MMM Knaus test) that it might be difficult to get adequate Renault servicing in the UK. Oh well, its all part of the decision process and I'm very glad you had the time to help me with it.

[Guest David]

Hi Dave, We ran an old fiat based M/home for 5 years with no problems, when we got rid of it this year it wa 15 years old. We now have a new fiat base and find it ok. I have used Renault Masters at work for the last 10 years, they go ok but are continually falling apart. Door locks are the worst a new set yearly seems to be the norm. servicing not a major problem. When we were looking to change to a new M/home we looked at Fords and were told by all the dealers we spoke that they are noisy because of the rear wheel drive. See and try is the answere. David

[Guest David Powell]

Hi Dave..I'd go for Ford for the rear wheel drive small turning circle, and most mechanics know the transit better than the back of their own hand, So if you have a problem any garage can fix it.

[Guest Clive]

I agree with Mel, unless you put the Merc Spinter into the equasion of course!. I would say when spending this much dosh is to get what you really want because afterwards its no good thinking "I wish I had got the XYZ". We made this decision wrong only once, many years ago. Logic won, small engine, small tyres, very economical it was but I hated this first ever new car. It only lasted us 9 months then we bought what we really fancied. Bigger loan but never regretted it. All fords are noisey but no where near as noisey as they used to be. The new engines have chain driven camshafts so no cam belt to worry about. European service has to be good. These aspects much like the Merc in this respect. Take care and don,t foget its a FUN vehicle for you to enjoy. C.

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

FORD Ford Transit chassis currently used for diesel-powered coachbuilt motorhomes come in 3 flavours: (A) FWD platform-cab with transverse 2 litre motor (100PS or 125PS) (B) RWD chassis-cab with longitudinal 2.4 litre motor (90PS, 115PS, 125PS or 137PS) (C) As for (B), but with a double-wheel rear axle. Some substantial motorcaravans are being built on Chassis (A) (for example, Eura Mobil make a 6.91m double-floor overcab), but it's most suited to vehicles no longer than 6.5m. 125PS motor is the right choice unless the 'van is small. Certain models aren't designed to allow tow-bar fitment and, in any case, the engine characteristics/gearing make towing anything hefty questionable. Could do with a 6-speed gearbox with lower bottom gear. Automatic transmission not available. 3500kg is maximum overall weight. The 125PS Duratorq motor is one of the quietest commercial-vehicle engines on offer - only latest VW 5-cylinder motor may be superior. For Chassis (B) or (C) the 90PS power-plant is best avoided unless the motorhome is very compact. Best choice for a bigger 'van is Chassis (C) with 137PS motor as this will provide excellent stability and relaxed motorway cruising due to high 6th gear and engine torque. Automatic transmission (Durashift) available on motors up to 125PS. 3500kg normal maximum overall weight, but 4250kg sometimes an option. Transit 2.4 motor is often claimed to be much noisier than competitors, but this is a dubious generalisation. It depends on which Ford motor version you pick, which competitor you choose and how much sound insulation material is in the respective engine compartments. To the best of my knowledge no UK converter currently builds on Chassis (A) or (C), but both are becoming increasingly common abroad. I note David Powell's comment about universal Transit fixability. The mechanical/electrical stuff on current Transits is as complicated as on any other modern vehicle and significant problems with it will be just as difficult to diagnose and just as hard to fix. There's equipment under my new Transit's bonnet that I haven't a clue as to its function and it's clear that, if anything nasty happens at the front of the motor, the engine will need to be removed. As Clive says, it's a good job there's no cam-belt to replace regularly. CITROEN/FIAT/PEUGEOT (SEVEL) All chassis are FWD and come in the following formats - platform-cab, chassis-cab, chassis-cowl or AL-KO versions of the last two. Transverse diesel motors are 84PS (2 litre), 100PS (2.2 litre), 110PS (2.3 litre), 127PS (2.8 litre) or 146PS (2.8 litre). Automatic transmission is available with the 2.8 litre motor, but only on LHD chassis. Maximum overall weight can reach 4000kg for a 4-wheel chassis or 5000kg for a tandem-axle Al-Ko variant. 'Heavier' chassis have all-round disc brakes, unlike the Transit's front disk/rear drums. Superior cab ergonomics to the Transit in my opinion, particularly for a motorhome (no floor-mounted gear-lever or central hand-brake to inhibit progress between cab and living area). And, unlike Transit, lower seat-boxes are available to reduce cab-seat height when swivels are fitted. GENERAL Transit and SEVEL chassis are both due for replacement in the not too distant future - the SEVEL chassis early next year and the Transit later. Nothing significant has been released about the revised SEVEL chassis, but it's been reported that the next generation Transit will use a 2.2 litre version of a jointly developed Ford/PSA (the Citroen/Peugeot Group) diesel motor with 85, 100, 110, 120 or 130PS output. It's generally accepted that the Transit gear-lever will (finally) move from the floor. As has been said earlier, there are alternative bases that should not be overlooked - Iveco, Mercedes, Renault and VW. All are well thought of and Iveco and Mercedes particularly have a widespread European commercial service/spares network. If you choose a motorcaravan and subsequently decide that the base-vehicle is 'wrong' for your needs, it's likely this will have nothing to do with deficiencies in the chassis itself, just that you didn't pin down your requirements tightly enough in the first place. Unless you've got out-of-the-ordinary plans (like you intend to tow a boat for instance, where RWD will be advantageous for launching it) I doubt if choice of chassis will be critical. There is a far greater risk of you choosing a motorhome with an unsuitable conversion as this is the area where most people seem to get it wrong. Might be worth you inviting comments on the makes/models of motorhome you are presently considering.

[Guest Dave]

Thanks once again for some excellent advice, its certainly helping. It still sounds like the Ford will be OK, and I certainly take Derek's suggestion of doing some posts about the various makes and models we're considering at present. Which leads me into another request: I've just posted a new query on the website about the various advantages of using left or right hand drive vehicles on the continent and would very grateful if any of you could have a look at that one and give me even more advice! Kind regards to you all, Dave

[Guest Rees]

I wonder if our experience is relevant? We have a 1995 Herald Aragon on Ford transit base RWD and turbo. No sound problem when engine has warmed up (usual with diesels?). In 2004 our clutch began to slip seriously in the Loire valley. We came across a Ford main dealer at Chalot who easily obtained and fitted a replacement clutch in a matter of hours. We spent the night on his car park amoungst the new cars on sale! And the cost was the equivalent of £50 less than in GB. We are very pleased with our F Transit and the very reasonable cost of servicing and spares - which must be an attractive feature of the Fords.

[Guest Dave]

Hi Rees. Yes that's just the kind of experience that helps. Actually, two doses thanks very much. Obviously the repair story on your clutch is comforting, but even more than that the fact that you've had your Transit vehicle for over ten years! In the other thread I started about left hand versus right hand drive I mentioned the likelihood of better resale on a RHD rather than LHD back in the UK. However, it would probably be our intention - provided the vehicle we bought satisfied our requirements in the first place - to hold onto it for as long as possible rather than going for a new one after a few years. While we might still trade it in (eg once we win the Lottery) the knowledge that a Ford would probably go on and on forever with few problems (confirmed by your experience) is good to know. Talking about my other posting, could I be so bold as to ask if you have anything to add with your experiences of driving a RHD vehicle on the continent? I assume you've done a lot of motoring over there in your Herald and would be interested to hear your views. Currently I'm thinking that - while you'd have to be very careful to remind yourself about driving on the correct side of the road at times - it doesn't seem to be that many of the respondents find it very difficult to do, especially with a competent passenger/co-driver as I would have. I think it would suit me as well but its the kind of thing that is very important before we buy and so any knowledge I can glean at this stage (ie pre-initial purchase) would be very useful. [And sorry about this, but being an old Goons fan I have to ask you: 'I presume the mechanic in France didn't say to you :"That's Chalot"?!']

[Guest Rees]

Dear Dave: Thanks for your comments on my comments! Actually, we bought our Herald secondhand in Sept 2000 (when it was five years old) but intend to hang on to it after replacing the boiler and getting to know all the querks of the vehicle. As I stated, beyond replacing the clutch in Cholet (correct spelling now) we have had no other problems and the vehicle has now reached 56,000 miles. On the RHD issue: yes, we have drived extensively in mainland Euope with no problems of any kind. You do have to take care when turning left etc but with an alert wife passenger that is not a problem. We have now adjusted out nearside mirror to cope with those problems but a good-sized accessory mirror (which was on the vehicle when we bought it but has since been lost) will be very useful when abroad. So, it looks as if you are really keen on the Transit and RHD. All good wishes to you and good luck.