W3526602 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Hi, I've just looked in my 1993(?) copy of the Highway Code. It cover cars (including car-derived vans), cars towing caravans, buses and coaches (under 12m long), goods vehicles under 7500kg MAM and goods vehicles over 7500MAM. No mention of campervans, no mention of 3050kg unladen, no mention of 4x4s. Of course, the Highway Code isn't the be-all-and-end-all it pretends to be, but just how far are you supposed to dig? My purloined copy of the Police Promotion Handbook (1975 edition) does mention under Passenger Vehicles...."unladen weight exceeding 3 tons or adapted for more than 7 passengers" ..... 40mph. I guess things have changed during the last 30 years. That handbook is a useful bit of kit. I did ask for the latest edition for Xmas, but I think we both forgot. Where did I find it advertised? Ebay? Whatever, a useful prezzy for the man who has everything. I understand there is one brand of small van which may be recorded on their V5s, with only some of them being "car derived". I'm not sure if this is down to the individual dealer. ???? I suspect that a pick-up is NOT a car derived van. Gulp if you drive a demountable. My insurers have said no cover for vans that have been fitted with extra seats. Also a long list of other exclusions. 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 W3526602 - 2009-03-25 7:27 AM ................................. I suspect that a pick-up is NOT a car derived van. Gulp if you drive a demountable............................. 602 To clarify a Pick Up is classified as a Light Goods Vehicle (not PLG) and is covered by the same rules and speeds as a Light Goods Vehicle. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Hi Basil, I suspected as much, but still don't like your answer. :-D It makes you wonder what our law makers were thinking. Why can a car derived van travel faster than a car derived pick-up? OT...but I have to rant at somebody. Today, driving down the A470 towards Cardiff, we were forced over by a commercial joining from a slip road. Then he caught up with us, got to within about a couple of metres from the back of our car...we were doing 60...before pulling out to overtake. I looked in my mirror, saw his mate coming up behind us. I thought "Stuff fuel economy" and gave it some welly, overtook Yorkie. I carried on at 70mph, watched him keeping up with me, scaring lots of other drivers by driving too close. We peeled off at the junction with the M4, taking the outside lane of the slip road, as we were going West, stopped at traffic lights. Yorkie took nearside lane as he was going East. Two of his wheels went through traffic lights at amber, the other ten wheels went thru at red. Frightening. 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 You naughty boy, that stretch of road is a 50mph limit. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 W3526602 - 2009-03-25 5:02 PM Hi Basil, I suspected as much, but still don't like your answer. :-D It makes you wonder what our law makers were thinking. Why can a car derived van travel faster than a car derived pick-up? 602 Not sure here, as if a pick up is car derived surely then it would be covered by the same rules as a car derived van, ie different to a non car derived pick up that would be a light goods vehicle, or am I misunderstanding you? I assumed you meant a 'Proper' pick up, rather than car derived as you were reffering to de-mountables which I have only seen on pick ups such as Ford Ranger, Mitsubishi and Nissan Navara. If there is one on a car derived pick up that may well come under car derived regs, I don't know myself. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Hi Basil, Sorry, I don't know who makes what nowadays, but I think we al recognise a 1960s Mini, Minivan, and Mini Pick-up. I would assume the Minivan is car-derived van...but is it? Different wheelbase and would the V5 show that description? And would it have to? The Mini Pick-up is a commercial, but not a car derived van. Most demountables are mounted on Japanese 4x4s and as such SHOULD be classed as dual-purpose vehicles, and be subject to same speed limit as cars. But...but....why do they pay the commercial toll to cross the Severn Bridge, when ANY Land Rover doesn't? It was a Land Rover driver who successfully appealed against a speeding ticket in 1956, because it was a dual purpose vehicle, so not restricted to 30mph on a derestricted road. (I was paced at 80mph in a Minivan on the A1 in 1964....so the PC told me. I pleaded not guilty, but got fined £2. Goods vehicle limit then was 40mph. And I had seats, and paid the purchase tax). Is there a quirk in the law that I know nothing about? Whatever, some demountables are mounted on 4x2s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Thinking about the past, which is now a grey area for me, the diffrence was if you had side windows in the van. But not totaly sure. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmbeedee Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 You are correct, it was side windows that made the difference. A minivan & indeed any van without side windows was restricted to 30 MPH at all times on all roads, except motorways. Not many of the latter about then either. Fit side windows & you could go as fast as you wanted, outside the 30 limits of course! I know, been there, done that, got the ticket & paid the fine! £10 back then, 1961/2. The reason for all this nonsense was purchase tax. A minivan was £360 in basic form (no passenger seat, no heater, no windscreen washer, etc.) & even cheaper if you bought it in primer paint. No tax to pay. A mini car was about the same price ex tax, but with tax came up to about £500. The Government didn't like the thought of people evading tax by buying vans, so came up with this barmpot idea! So you could save a considerable amount by buying the van, but only drive VERY slowly. Not many did of course, hence the risk of being caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Hi MBD, I thought the same as you. But the court told me that my van needed BOTH seats and windows to avoid commercial speed restrictions. But I can't see Plod stopping every speeding van with windows just to see if it had seats. I paid £26 purchase tax. The introduction of VAT wiped out the advantage of buying a van. OT..... a van was presented for purchase tax assessment. The driver was obviously very proud of his handiwork, but in reality it was an absolute mess, and the vehicle was worth very little. The man from C&E didn't want to offend the owner. After much thought, he asked "What do you think its worth?" "Its got to be worth at least £2000" boasted the owner. The assessor managed to keep a straight face while he replied.... "£2,000? Yes, I think thats acceptable" ....... and charged him 25% 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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