peterjl Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hi Just loading up to catch ferry tomorrow evening to go skiing - checked most things at weekend - all except water. This eveining started heating only ( Truma heating) - closed the drain switch - put some water in tank - switched on electric to pump (green light comes up on the board) - opened the tap and - nothing!!! Checked fuses - all ok System was drained in the autumn Where to i go from here - i did wonder if there was some residual water in the pump that has frozen - i openn all taps and drain points to drain but even so. Has anybody experienced this. Can we use heating if no water in the boiler? all ideas appreciated. Peter Hobby FS550 (2006) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROON Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hi Peter, can't help on main problem, but I often use my heating (electric etc) on my days out when the water tank/boiler not full. Don't know if this what you mean on last question or not .... this is a Truma heater too. Joy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Thanks Roon I have read and re read the manual and it was far from crystal clear on that point. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 It may only be a simple airlock. Try filling the tank with the taps open and sucking on an open tap when the tank gets at least quarter full with the pump running and if it was an airlock a face full of water will be your confirmation! Always assuming that the pump is working OK and running - can you hear it 'ticking' when switched on? Have you had the van long and does it usually drain and refill OK as some can be difficult at any time? It is possible to have a small 'ice lock' in a low part of any pipe and warming the inside of the van might help thaw it if the van has been left cold as might the application of a hairdryer (NOT a heat gun or blowlamp!) on any exposed or external water pipes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 It could be that the pickup pipe from the pump to tank is frozen. As far as heating with no water in the tank. If the Truma is model 600eh then you can definately use with tank empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hi Tracker No sound from pump at all!! When you open tap (i have tried both kitchen and toilet) you hear the click of the micro switch but the pump is quiet!! I have wondered if the pump has died!! haven't used M/H for 4 months for a variety of reasons (although we were away for about 7 weeks in first 8 months of year) but i take it for a run every 2 or three weeks and check the bits that can be checked - except the water as i keep system drained down when not in use. Could it be lack of use? Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Captain Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 What's the air temp in your area? Could be the fact that it's cold and some residual moisture it the pump has frozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Dunno about lack of use Peter but pumps these days are very reliable - in fact in over 35 years at this caper I have never had one fail (kiss of death saying that). However it might need a light tap or two with a blunt instrument to kick start it if you are lucky - or you might be able to take it apart and free it up and clear any gunge from the filters - or it could just be the fuse as a jammed pump can easily blow a fuse? I see that you've checked the fuses but could there be another in line fuse close to the pump - it's rare but not unheard of? I have not done one for years but if it is a Shurflo or Fiamma they are not hard to get apart but re assembly needs care as you need to get all the valves and filters in the right way round and also take care to get all joints tight enough to seal without over tightening or it might break - especially the filter bowl. I'm digging in the dark here as I am unfamiliar with your van and water system but in general the same basic principles should apply to all vans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hi Right The heater is a Trumatic C 6002 EH. The pump is a Shurflo. The Air temp is bxxxxx Cold! - my out side temp gauge is showing - 5.5C - it was -7.5 friday and, as my van is in the shade on North side of house i doubt it has been over zero for a few days. I am wondering about residual dampness freezing but i have had heater on for about 3 1/2 hrs and the pump is right next to the boiler. I cannot see any fuses but the pump is hidden under a load of airduct pipes from the heater so not easy to see without disassembly a maze of pipes. I will go out and:- 1) have a look for another fuse. 2) give it a gentle tap (i have been a little heavy handed in the past) 3) try some more direct heat(but not too much) with a hair dryer Many thanks Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Have just been down to my mobile home where I turned the outside water tap off some days ago. I couldn't turn this on yesterday but eventually managed to today (must have been frozen). However, the water would not run inside for ages. There is no pump but I opened the taps and kept putting my hand over the faucet. Took ages but eventually it started to flow slowly then after a time the air came out. Maybe you will have to warm the inside of the m/h, try to draw up the water and be patient. Hope you get it going before you leave and hope that you have a good holiday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hi Thank you everybody for all your help and good wishes. We have some practice - the pump is now running ableit no water as yet. I am hoping a litle more time and water will spring forth. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymer C 9. Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Just noticed your thread Peter, hope all goes well with the pump, and the skiing goes well. Ed says it says in our manual you can use the heater without water. Carol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 All Mk 2 Truma C-Series combination air/water heaters (C-3402, C-4002 and C-6002) may be employed safely for air-heating with no water in them. This is clearly stated in the early paragraphs of Truma's Operating Instructions leaflet, but the advice may not be repeated in motorhome manufacturers' own manuals. The latest Truma "Combi" appliances can similarly be used empty of water for air-heating. (Note: this is not the case for the original 'Mk Zero' C-3400 and C-6000 Truma heaters. These were differently constructed and always needed to be full of water while heating to prevent internal damage.) The very low temperatures mentioned suggest that Peter's original diagnosis was correct - that water had frozen within the Shurflo pump. The pump itself is protected by a 10A fuse in fuse-way 2 of the CBE-made electrical distribution-box beneath a cab-seat (right-hand seat in my LHD Hobby - don't know if it's the opposite way round for RHD models) together with the battery-charger and leisure battery. The position of the water-pump and Hobby's water-system layout makes it tricky to drain the pump completely when the motorhome is to be out of action during frosty weather. Having drained my Hobby's water system as much as possible I then run its Shurflo water pump for several minutes. However, I'm sure this procedure doesn't remove as much water from the pump as would disconnecting the water-hoses from the pump's inlet and outlet and then running the pump until it was 'dry' (which is what I used to do with my Herald's more easily accessible Shurflo pump.) After that I swaddle the pump beneath a couple of thick towels and pray that it will survive the winter. While my motorhome is in hibernation, every now and again I switch the pump on just to check that it's still alive and kicking. ......................................................................................................................................... Regarding Hobby motorhomes and water (though not involving water pumps), it's worth checking the over-cab lockers of recent Hobbys for signs of water damage. This came up here a while ago in connection with a Ford-based Hobby. Having seen a T-550FS at the Malvern Show with water stains and buckled panelling in its over-cab lockers and inspected my own vehicle, it looks like the problem is unavoidable due to Hobby's construction methods. Above the front part of the motorhome's ceiling a large area of the underside of the GRP over-cab moulding is left uninsulated. In cold damp weather moisture inevitably condenses on the uninsulated GRP's surface and then runs forward to drip on to the tops of the lockers. That this is happening may not be apparent to begin with, but, as the lockers are made mostly from thin decorative hardboard held together with sticky-tape, damage will eventually result. Any sort of effective 'fix' will involve treating the problem at source (ie. adding insulation above the ceiling to minimise the opportunity for condensation to form) and I can assure anyone contemplating doing this that the exercise won't be a barrel of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Probably a bit late to solve your problem, but maybee if you have WiFi, this info will be usefull to you for the future and other readers. Had the same problem, the pump made a noise but no water. I had drained the water but there was some ice in a u-bend. A friend had the same problem. Although it was above freezing for three days there was still ice in the pipe. left it for another few days and all was well. My friend was going away and his cleared after 3 to 4 hours into the trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John H Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I had the same problem on New Years Eve but about 15 minutes with the hair dryer did the trick. I always open the boiler drain valve, the water tank tap and the sink taps when I leave the site but there must have been some water left in the pump. I did run the pump for a few minutes when I got home this time but I will see what happens next time I fill up. Good idea about the towels Derek. I'll do the same when I get home tonight. John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 Hi Once again thanks to everybody. I left heating on overnight & pump working so we have water in toilet basin BUT not to kitchin (the kitchen has frozen before when we have had very cold temps in the alps -12). Derek - thank you for tip re condensation - no sign of a problem after 2 years of winter trips but you never know when these things can bite you! Right - thats it - i came home from work an hour ago - we are almost loaded and should be on road to Dover by 3.30. All the best Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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