yeti Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Derek Uzzell - 2009-03-12 8:38 AM Earthmover The 6-speed gearbox fitted to 3.0litre Fiat Ducato motors is quite different in design to the 6-speed 'box used with the 2.3litre powerplant. I'm pretty sure this has been emphasised in earlier forum 'juddering' threads. That hasn't stopped my 3litre Auto Trail Scout from juddering and cooking the clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 Nick at Euroserv knows the exact differences between the two six speed boxes, but they are similar, and both are over-geared in reverse. Unfortunately the data published for the gearboxes is not reliable, and I don't think any proper tests have been carried out on the 3 litre vans to determine just how over-geared they are. The situation with the 3 litre vans has complicated itself during the last couple of days as Peugeot (who have been supplying most of the information - unless it's an official Fiat 'leak') originally said they had access to a modified box for the 3 litre vans right now, but in the last week have fitted two 3 litre vans with a modified clutch and told the owners that this is the official 'fix'. So what exactly is going to happen with these 3 litre vans is now unclear again. I've asked one of the owners to chase Darren Moore in Peugeot Customer Care for an answer and if there is another 3 litre Peugeot owner reading this then perhaps they can do the same and let us know what he has to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have been following this thread for some time and there is obviously a change in mood and an indication that a solution is near. I had a road test on my 3l automatic Autotrail Tracker EKS this morning before accepting the vehicle. Chelston had readily agreed to this some while ago although we do not take delivery officialy until 1st May (for various reasons). The first thing to report is that the comfortmatic box is a dream. The gear change is smooth in auto and it is simplicity itself to move from auto to manual at any time. I am told it always selects auto in reverse. Reversing up a good slope it was smooth at a very slow speed, as well as from a stop and go without using the hand brake. Now comes the "possible iffy" bit. I was told that the reason there was a lack of action from Fiat was due to the fact that Peugeot have the manufacturing rights (may not be word for word or the right expression) and they told Fiat they could not respond until Peugeot had acted first. So coincidentally there now seems to be action by Fiat following Peugeots actions. I was also informed that Fiat make the 3l auto box not Peugeot. Now I don`t want to start a surge of response saying this is all tosh I am just passing on what I have been told in order to provide some potential comfort to all you judder sufferers. Porky well fed and happy with my choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 Porky, You're right, it is mostly tosh, but don't feel bad about it because whatever emanates from the mouths of dealers usually is. The only reason why Peugoet don't offer the auto box is that they refused to put any money into its development costs (the robotised addition to the existing manual box) as they couldn't see a worthwhile return from the commercial sector. All the gearboxes for these models are the same (i.e like for like across the brands) and are manufactured by an Italian company for the Sevel team. Fiat are the driving force on this vehicle (like Peugeot are on the Partner/Scudo) and it is generally thought that because this is Fiat's cock-up then they are footing part of the bill for Peugeot's rectification programme. And that is why Peugoet are being so honest and forthcoming. It will be interesting to see (when we get any reliable data) what the differences are between the 3 litre auto box and manual equivalent. Or if clutches start to go in the Auto versions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I fitted cruise control to a 3 litre auto comfortmatic this morning and I have to say that box's manners are superb and reversing is as smooth as freshly pressed silk. Not a trace of judder and totally controllable for speed from 1mph upwards, obviously at these low speeds the clutch is being allowed to slip so clutch wear is an area to be observed over time. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Andy I guessed as much but it is an interesting point about the clutch on the auto. I took the view, and still do, that the auto system should operate faultlessly as it should be the "perfect" driver. It therefore follows that should a clutch wear prematurely being driven by this "perfect" driver, then it has not lasted a reasonable time under the Sales of Goods Act. Now I realise enforcement of such an act can be difficult and often only through litigation, but to me it at least establishes a bench mark from which to claim ones rights. Porky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongpiper Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 A comment about Dave Newell's posting, just above, re fitting cruise control to a comfortmatic. Mine has cruise control as standard, so how come one has appeared without it? Also, as I have mentioned before, it drives extremely well, forward and backwards. Just hope it continues to do so!! Neil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Had a phone call this morning, they are ordering the parts, my van is going to stage 2, new gearbox with lower reverse ratio and new clutch. Justin at Fiat has true to his word. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 You would only get cruise control if the coachbuilder specified it when ordering the base vehicle and it only costs £155 (about £90 after discounts) as an option so I can see why the tight gits don't order it unless you insist! I mean, they only have £40 to 50,000 to play with when they build your dream machine! If and when we are sure that new vehicles are being built with revised gearboxes it would be a wise move to specify an option such as this or Blue& Me (which is brilliant) so you know that the vehicle has been built for you and has not been sitting around for months with the old gearbox in it. Also, until very recently it was not possible to have radio remote controls on the steering as well as cruise control; you had to have one or the other. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 I have just been in touch with someone called Sue at Fiat Customer Relations. She was unable to give me any timescale for getting my van modified (Fiat 2.3L 6 gear). I have been on their list since August of last year. She claimed that the modification to the engine mountings was successful more often than not. When I queried how changes to engine mountings would help when the basic problem was that the reverse gear was too high, she simply acknowledged my concern. I am just back from a ten day trip which required me to reverse up a very slight incline onto our pitch. Each time I did it I thought the van was going to shake itself to bits. Very dispiriting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger20 Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Some encouraging news. My van was booked in for Tuesday to have the engine mounts changed but my dealer has rung to say that additional parts are required and have been ordered (he thinks gearbox and clutch) and that the van will now be needed for 14 hours instead of 3. Hopefully the work may be finished by the end of next week so I will post an update after its been done. So, fingers crossed, thanks, as we all know, to Andy and now to Fiat. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 Another two owners have reported the same as Roger so it seems that Fiat may have decided to abandon the engine mounting campaign and go straight to the nub of the problem - the reverse gear ratio, and a different clutch to compensate for the still slightly too high gear ratio. Lets hope this is the case and that it does the job. I sense a lessening of the stress levels. Mind you the Laphroaig helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 sorry double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Yet another suspect whisky try highland malts they could change you life for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Is their anyone who has had a gearbox fixed on a 5 speed Peugeot. Peugeot tell me they have NO fix for the 5 speed gearbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred grant Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 if its broke, aint no need to fix it is denzils (my old biddy from the garage) motto or is fred just gettin a bit confused in the warmer weather me ansums? farenhitefred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Its all gone a bit quiet on the subject of transmission rectification as we 're all waiting to see what Fiat (and Peugeot in the case of the 5 speed and 3 litre vans) do next? Are they going to start fixing them (the 2.3 6 speed vans) in any serious numbers or not? What have Fiat got on offer for the 3 litre and 5 speed versions? As yet they have not realeased any information whatsoever about what they intend to do with those. On another note have any of you got condensation in your headlights? After speaking to a few other owners this too may be an issue which will cost plenty if it develops, and I don't think is covered by the 3rd year warranty. It's a safety issue too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 The headlamp condensation thing was mentioned by 'rossko' on 25 January 2008 on Page 3 of the "Major Fiat/Peueot/Citroen problems" thread. Incidentally, I came across the following by chance recently. Not sure if it's been referred to before on this forum... http://www.seered.co.uk/fiat.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSHORT Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Some condensation in my lamps this morning, I thought this is quite common in a lot of vehicles unless garaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 PSHORT Condensation in headlamps is a fault, garaging is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Just taken my 2,3 multijet into FIAT Malaga they have confirmed that they will be fitting new reverse cog and improved clutch and they want the vehicle for at least 3 days.Not sure about engine mounts? This could be the end of a long battle not a perfect fix I understand but acceptable in all but the most severe conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossko Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 We have just (last week) taken our bolero in to the fiat dealer to have the headlamp photographed again in order to get our second replacement due to condensation in the same headlight. However the conversation with the technician over the judder fix which we are supposed to be in the next batch of 10 to be done was quite positive. Whose batch of 10 we are not sure though!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 We have had a number of headlamp fogging problems, all have been changed under warranty but now our oldest vans are approaching 2 years old and we don't get the 3rd year warranty because of the mileage limit so I looked and the complete units are approx £120 each which I thought was surprisingly reasonable considering how complex they are. Also it is worth mentioning that we left the rear cover off one that was misting up and parked it in the sun one day and it dried up. The reflectors are not very likely to corrode so I don't think there is much to worry about in the long term. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Nick, The one which is full of condensation on ours doesn't even dry out with the headlamps on, so the beam is all over the place, and this is not a good idea - safety wise. I've taken the bulbs out once (hot dry day) and let it evaporate, but it's back and worse than ever, suggesting that water is getting in. Fiat are replacing it under warranty but after that's expired (2 years for lights I think) are we expected to include headlamp drying out sessions weekly to be part of our lives? Or failed MOTs because the lights don't conform to the beam measuring device? All I was thinking was that everyone should have a good look at their headlights before the warranty expires. Which may not be a long way off for many in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Andy, I stand corrected. It is another shocking design flaw and it is going to be a pain in the backside for a great many owners. So are the crappy washer jets and the door-open alarms from anything but a perfectly aligned side door. The flashing mileometer that results in unplugging and reconnecting the various body computers is a pain and the frequent mysterious EGR valve problems that disappear when you go to the dealers are infuriating. The fact that the front bumper comes in various pieces should make me happy but sadly you need to be Einstein and equipped with four-jointed 4 foot long arms in order to do anything with them. I have to remind myself that the brakes last twice as long, that there are no problems with wheel bearings any more and suspension bump stops don't wear out while taking 30 seconds to change a headlight bulb instead of half an hour which invariably led to damage to the lamp unit or to the bodywork. The wiper blades are wonderful and seem to last forever; lets not forget the total lack of oil leaks! I just thought that the forum contributors would like to know that all plastic lenses seem to be afflicted with this problem although I don't know why but at least they are not £300 to replace which is what I thought they would cost, and that it was a pleasant surprise what with all the other problems we are facing. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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