Motorhome / Caravan?

[happilyoverforty]

Hi

From my previous post you may have gathered that we are thinking about going walk-about for a year in a Motorhome

 

We then thought why not buy a caravan (He ducks down to avoid the missiles (lol) (lol) ). But the more we thought about it we wondered what was the preferred mode of transport /accommodation.

 

Your thoughts please.

 

Graham

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Graham

 

A couple of earlier threads (I'm sure there are more) on the Motorhome/Caravan preference...

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=10212&posts=23

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1900&posts=8

[duetto owner]

had a caravan for a short time 15 years ago.

 

drawbacks for us were.

the set up arriving and departing.

getting the knack of reversing with the caravan.

towing just did not like in on motorways because of the slipstream from overtaking hgv's

having to keep filling up with water

the amount of knocks on the door from shady pikeys asking if the caravan was was sale resulting in constant fear of it being stolen.

 

recently got a motorhome

only drawbacks are anti-pikey height bars on some carparks

and when on site having either take the motorhome with you or use public transport on local trips out.

 

motor home wins well impressed pity it took so long to save for one.

[LordThornber]

This one never ends and never will in my opinion. We went from tent camping to a fairly basic camper to a luxury motorhome in 12 months and have never looked back.

 

I cannot see us being pulled or swayed, (puns intended) to the caravan life for many reasons and here are a few:-

 

Never towed and no desire to

 

Have no urge to drive again once on site, i.e. sight seeing, shopping etc

 

Set up time upon arrival & pack up time upon leaving

 

The ability to just go when we choose and where to a degree

 

This list is endless and Caravan person will be able to provide an equally long (er) list. Each to their own as usual applies. Please don't be offended by this but the mere fact that you're asking the question would have me quaking in my shoes 8-)

 

Martyn

[malc d]

The answer to the height bar problem is to spend as many holidays as possible on the other side of the channel ( or North Sea ), where motorhomes are welcome.

 

 

 

;-)

[chatterdog]

ooops a spanner in the works

 

A 5th wheel unit and pickup

 

 

All the conveniance of a motorhome re: water, waste tanks and the black water(loo) tank. More space to move around in, much larger payload - no skimping on what you want/need to take or bring back on your travels. No transport problems as you have the pickup to get around in without the home when siteseeing in the area. easy to hitch/unhitch, and quick setup, kettle can be on inside a couple of mins of getting on pitch

 

The downside for a lot of people is the fact that you do have to be able to reverse the unit onto your pitch you cant unhitch and use a motormover, if you can reverse a trailer ok then they are great.

 

I hasten to add that mine is a uk compliant 7'6" wide unit not the 8' wide american unit

[Brian Kirby]

Plus, of course, you have to be able to site the fifth wheeler somewhere when not using it, and you have to drive everywhere in a tank disguised as a pickup :-).

[chatterdog]

Lots of people cannot park their chosen holiday home at their house, it has to be stored somewhere else. I have a choice and choose to store at a local storage yard. That way i am not advertising the fact that i am away in my van to any would be tealeafs when it is missing from the drive for any length of time. Something to consider when you live on a road with high volume traffic going past between 2 localish towns and few neighbours nearby.

You havent been in any new pickups then, far cry from what they were in the old days, they are now quiet,comfy with all the latest gadgets and reasonably fuel efficient. I get on average 25mpg when pulling the 5ver and about 33mpg average solo (lol) :-)

[mikemoss]

We've done both and loved both, for different reasons.

 

Caravans: I actually quite enjoyed towing, but setting up at the start of a break and putting everything away at the end were a bit of a pain. Having said that, we always enjoyed scurrying back to our little 'home' at the end of a day's sight-seeing, and narrow lanes were no bar to getting around. But, very difficult (when towing) to stop and park if you spotted something interesting. Always the risk of forgetting something vital when out and about in the car.

 

Motorhome: So much easier to get going and get set up. Ability to stop en route if you see somewhere you fancy having a look around, brewing up, taking a nap, spending a penny etc etc.

 

Much, much easier to keep moving on and touring over a wider area (which is what we like) and you don't even need to get out when you reach your chosen over-night spot unless you want to hook-up to the mains.

 

Parking has never been a real problem, we've always managed to find somewhere, and we treat narrow roads on the basis that if the local bus/milk lorry can get down there then so can we.

 

Final analysis: much greater sense of adventure in the motorhome, greater convenience and much easier to keep moving around. But....if you're planning to stay in one place for, say, a week or two, then the caravan comes into its own. And they cost so much less, too......

[Mel B]

IMV:

 

There is one major difference abroad ... motorhomes can use the overnight aires etc in various countries, caravans are NOT permitted to, you may see odd ones doing so (illegally) but it is quite rare. Therefore if you always want to stay on a site for a few days, and explore the local area, then a caravan might be more suitable. If, however, you want to keep touring around, stopping enroute to see things and only staying at the same place for a night or two, then a motorhome wins.

 

A caravan/car combination will generally cost more on the ferry/tunnel, may be restricted to lower speed limits, and needs much more setting-up/packing-up each time. You also have to watch what payload you have due to the towing limit (train weight) for the tow car and caravan combination. If you want to take bikes and the like it isn't that easy with a caravan.

 

A motorhome is generally cheaper for ferry/tunnel, doesn't usually have lower speed limits (unless it's a monster!) and can be set-up and packed-up much quicker. If you choose carefully the payload shouldn't be a problem. If you want to take bikes you can stick them on a rack on the back, you can also make use of the roof rack for other items too.

[david lloyd]

happilyoverforty - 2009-05-22 12:01 AM

 

Hi

From my previous post you may have gathered that we are thinking about going walk-about for a year in a Motorhome

 

We then thought why not buy a caravan (He ducks down to avoid the missiles (lol) (lol) ). But the more we thought about it we wondered what was the preferred mode of transport /accommodation.

 

Your thoughts please.

 

Graham

 

 

Hi Graham

 

We have considered (and then tried) both motorhomes and caravans - and a combination of both!! - but most of the relevent points have been covered here.

 

Two other posts you may find interesting are onthe Caravan Chat forum:

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=7157&start=1

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=14042&posts=11

 

Good luck with the decision!

 

David

[Basil]

Mel B - 2009-05-22 5:39 PM

 

You also have to watch what payload you have due to the towing limit (train weight) for the tow car and caravan combination. If you want to take bikes and the like it isn't that easy with a caravan.

 

 

Sorry but this is a complete red herring, most caravans alone have a better payload than most motorhomes, plus you have more storage space and payload in the towing vehicle, taking bikes is dead easy and normally involves a carrier on the tow bar or back of the towing vehicle, used one like this for years and is still going strong on a freinds vehicle.

 

I believe that most have said the right answers, it is two different ways of doing similar things and is mainly determined by how you want to do it i.e. stay in an area and visit out on a daily basis with the car or tour from place to place taking your 'home' with you instead of returning to base.

The only anomoly that I see as a complete nonsense is towing a car behind a motorhome, if you are going to do that then you need to get a caravan.

By the way the costing is a red herring as well as if you cost it out properly a new motorhome cost no more than a new car plus caravan combination but has the benefit of a much greater residual value.

 

As usual just my opinion

 

Bas

[rupert123]

Never thought that I would agree with Basil but his last post was pretty much spot on especially the bit about a motorhome towing a car, which is a complete nonsense. However his last sentence conveniently missed out the need to add a new car even if you buy a motorhome, so caravan plus car is certainly cheaper. Personally if I was going to tour just in the UK would buy a caravan and tour out from sites with the car. The only exception to this would be if you went to Scotland a lot. In the Northwest of Scotland you see very few caravans and on the islands almost none. In Europe it is no contest a m/h every time. For me a caravan is out my grandsons would laugh themselves sick.

[Brian Kirby]

Basil - 2009-05-22 10:31 PM

Mel B - 2009-05-22 5:39 PM You also have to watch what payload you have due to the towing limit (train weight) for the tow car and caravan combination. If you want to take bikes and the like it isn't that easy with a caravan.

Sorry but this is a complete red herring, most caravans alone have a better payload than most motorhomes, plus you have more storage space and payload in the towing vehicle, taking bikes is dead easy and normally involves a carrier on the tow bar or back of the towing vehicle, used one like this for years and is still going strong on a freinds vehicle. ................

Just on a point of accuracy, Basil, your statement above is not quite correct either.  The reference you quoted was to Gross Train Weight, which is the car manufacturer's limit for the maximum combined weight of trailer (caravan) and towcar.  It concerns the legal capability of the towcar to tow a caravan of a given weight, exceeding which is illegal.  There is also the generally accepted 85% rule (advisory), that the laden caravan should not exceed 85% of the kerb weight of the towcar.  Many do not accept/agree with this, but it was arrived at following research by the Caravan Club, as a general safety rule to cover all car/caravan combinations.  Therefore, the towcar is very important when buying a caravan - and don't rely on caravan sales personnel to give accurate advice, most can't/won't. 

Final point, again based upon Caravan Club advice, is to ensure 7% of the laden weight of the caravan is carried by the tow hitch.  AlKo have an anti-snake device that should ensure snakes don't arise, but correct tow-hitch load is the fundamental item.

Correctly loaded, and observing the 85% rule and 7% tow hitch load, a combination should be, and should remain, dynamically stable.  Then add the AlKo device if you wish, to ensure things stay under control under pretty much any road conditions.

However, do also be aware that many modern family saloons have a 50Kg tow hitch load limit on their towbars, meaning they cannot tow a caravans with laden weight exceeding 750Kg without potentially compromising stability.

Matching car and caravan is not quite so straightforward as it at first looks!!  However, if you are a member of either of the UK clubs they both have indices of caravan/car matches and, if asked, will advise if 'tother is suitablefor which.

[Basil]

Brian Kirby - 2009-05-23 2:57 PMQUOTE]

Just on a point of accuracy, Basil, your statement above is not quite correct either.  The reference you quoted was to Gross Train Weight, which is the car manufacturer's limit for the maximum combined weight of trailer (caravan) and towcar.  It concerns the legal capability of the towcar to tow a caravan of a given weight, exceeding which is illegal.  There is also the generally accepted 85% rule (advisory), that the laden caravan should not exceed 85% of the kerb weight of the towcar.  Many do not accept/agree with this, but it was arrived at following research by the Caravan Club, as a general safety rule to cover all car/caravan combinations.  Therefore, the towcar is very important when buying a caravan - and don't rely on caravan sales personnel to give accurate advice, most can't/won't. 

Final point, again based upon Caravan Club advice, is to ensure 7% of the laden weight of the caravan is carried by the tow hitch.  AlKo have an anti-snake device that should ensure snakes don't arise, but correct tow-hitch load is the fundamental item.

Correctly loaded, and observing the 85% rule and 7% tow hitch load, a combination should be, and should remain, dynamically stable.  Then add the AlKo device if you wish, to ensure things stay under control under pretty much any road conditions.

However, do also be aware that many modern family saloons have a 50Kg tow hitch load limit on their towbars, meaning they cannot tow a caravans with laden weight exceeding 750Kg without potentially compromising stability.

Matching car and caravan is not quite so straightforward as it at first looks!!  However, if you are a member of either of the UK clubs they both have indices of caravan/car matches and, if asked, will advise if 'tother is suitablefor which.

Sorry Brian how does that make my post inaccurate then? Why is what I posted not correct? I believe you have just thrown in some further red herrings.You are quite correct in what you have said but how does that stop the caravan having a greater payload than most motorhomes and furthermore how does what you have said stop the towing vehicle having further stowage space and load capacity.As to the general rule with regard to a percentage of the towcar weight, this rule was suggested and aimed at 'new' and inexperienced towers not as a hard and fast rule. Providing that the gross train weight is not exceeded then you may tow any weight of caravan you feel happy with, indeed I towed a van that was virtually equal to the weight of a towing vehicle when loaded for over ten years at up to 60mph in UK and faster abroad where allowed with absolutely no problems or mishaps whatsoever.Also to qualify my post taking my last towing vehicle and caravan, the towing vehicle had a GTW of 5025kg a laden weight of 2825kg the caravan was 1145kg with a loading margin of 580kg the loading capacity of the towing vehicle is over 1000kg. There you have an outfit that comes in at well under 50% ratio with a load capacity across both parts of the outfit of over 1580kg, without going to RV's how many moterhomes can offer you that?Bas

[Basil]

rupert123 - 2009-05-23 11:35 AM

 

Never thought that I would agree with Basil but his last post was pretty much spot on especially the bit about a motorhome towing a car, which is a complete nonsense. However his last sentence conveniently missed out the need to add a new car even if you buy a motorhome, so caravan plus car is certainly cheaper. Personally if I was going to tour just in the UK would buy a caravan and tour out from sites with the car. The only exception to this would be if you went to Scotland a lot. In the Northwest of Scotland you see very few caravans and on the islands almost none. In Europe it is no contest a m/h every time. For me a caravan is out my grandsons would laugh themselves sick.

 

Rupert 123, sorry you feel that you have to agree with me, for which I apologise, that was not my intention just stating facts as I see them. I didn't 'conveniently' forget another car as even with that factored in the statement I made is still true.

 

For instance take my last tow vehicle (still owned) and a caravan that I would have replaced our last one with, had we not gone to a motorhome (still have the quotes), and the second car that we bought at the same time (as we did for a time consider taking along a car with us though not towed but found we did not need it).

 

Cost of towing vehicle £27000 plus the cost of the caravan at the time £14800 equals £41800. Actual cost of our motorhome at the time £38000 plus the second car £4995 equals £42995.

I think you should agree not a great difference in cost. However look at the values now the towing vehicle is worth around £2750 the caravan, had we have gone down that route which my brother did with his van so I am aware of its residual value, would have been worth around £4000 equals £6750.

As I have been offered £19000 trade in (agreed against a higher value new motorhome) and see other identical motorhomes up for between £16500 and £21000, if I take around the lowest example that still means that the motorhome has retained a value worth around £10000 more, it is on that that I base my comments in my post and still stand by them.

 

Bas

 

P.S. Sorry forgot about our second car, its worth about £450. :-S

[rupert123]

No Bas I do not agree, you have conveniently 'juggled' figures here. If you start from a new vehicle base the caravan plus car will always come out cheaper than m/h plus car.

[Basil]

Hi Rupert I don't understand your response. I have not juggled figures they are all new vehicle prices and at the time we bought them they were new so how have I juggled them please?

 

Bas

 

P.S. To be fair there was a period of months between buying the tow vehicle and then deciding not to buy the caravan and go for the motorhome and second car, however that would have served to INCREASE the cost of the tow vehicle/ caravan combination as the tow vehicle prices went up.

[Ranger]

To be sure of the best of both worlds have both, I have both, I can do that as the family own shares. But to go a bit off thread, for many years I had a time share in a canal narrow boat ( Canaltime ) which until I lost the use of my left leg ( Stroke ) I thought was better than either caravan or motorhome. No levelling up when you stop for the night, no dangerous overtaking to do, every one four MPH, good pubs at the main locks, friendly folk just like us, diesel is tax free, if you hit anything the boat will just bounce off, a bit wet to drive in the rain, so you need good heavy weather gear. Lots of room inside, just like a 60 foot caravan, they are all 7 feet wide. I'm sad I had to stop doing it, but such is life!

[david lloyd]

Ranger - 2009-05-24 7:08 PM

 

To be sure of the best of both worlds have both, I have both, I can do that as the family own shares. But to go a bit off thread, for many years I had a time share in a canal narrow boat ( Canaltime ) which until I lost the use of my left leg ( Stroke ) I thought was better than either caravan or motorhome. No levelling up when you stop for the night, no dangerous overtaking to do, every one four MPH, good pubs at the main locks, friendly folk just like us, diesel is tax free, if you hit anything the boat will just bounce off, a bit wet to drive in the rain, so you need good heavy weather gear. Lots of room inside, just like a 60 foot caravan, they are all 7 feet wide. I'm sad I had to stop doing it, but such is life!

 

Ah, yes - but can you park one on the aires in France?

 

David

[Basil]

david lloyd - 2009-05-24 8:18 PM

 

Ah, yes - but can you park one on the aires in France?

 

David

 

And that is one of the main reasons for us going for a motorhome.

 

Bas

[onecal]

HI

Regarding towing a car with a motorhome you have a choice. You may not need to bring the car sometimes.

Now Basel that might be trickey with a caravan.

Regards,

Brendan (lol)

[Ranger]

As you say David Lloyd, one can not park a canal boat on a french Aire, but on the other hand European inland waterways are among the best in the world, & "Rules of the road" are the same on water every where in the world. 'P.S'. in France one can hire a boat built to carry a caravan on the European inland waterways. One drives it from a raised bridge at the stern so one can see over the top of the caravan. Motorhomes are not mentioned so I assume that they are only built to take touring caravans.

[Ranger]

Just as a little interesting read for us motor caravanners, www.drifters.co.uk/cuttings/wales/bp0107htm "David Chapman swaps his motor caravan for a narrow boat to get closer to nature"

[Mel B]

Basil - 2009-05-22 10:31 PM

 

Mel B - 2009-05-22 5:39 PM

 

You also have to watch what payload you have due to the towing limit (train weight) for the tow car and caravan combination. If you want to take bikes and the like it isn't that easy with a caravan.

 

 

Sorry but this is a complete red herring, most caravans alone have a better payload than most motorhomes, plus you have more storage space and payload in the towing vehicle, taking bikes is dead easy and normally involves a carrier on the tow bar or back of the towing vehicle, used one like this for years and is still going strong on a freinds vehicle.

 

Bas

 

Basil, this is not a red herring, it is something that needs to be considered - I never said you had 'less' of a payload, just that you had to watch it, not just for the caravan but for the car too. I've seen lots of cars towing caravans where the caravan places so much downforce on the tow car that the rear wheel arches are almost touching the wheels especially when they've stuffed the tow car to the roof with a massive amount of stuff too! As for bikes, it isn't as easy with a caravan and, as Brian mentioned, getting the right combination of caravan and tow car can be trying. I'm not saying whether it is right or wrong to have a motorhome or caravan, just trying to point out something which needs to be thought about that's all.