famcunni Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 We have been considering purchasing a new motorhome for some time now, and to be honest, we have been put off the idea by all the reported problem's with the judder and self destruction of clutches etc... So much so that we had deciced to look again at Caravans and I have spent the last year or so researching "wobble boxes" as I like to call them. I have read the other large thread on this subject and I am still a bit confused as to just how safe it would be purchase one of these brands of vehicles around October time this year. As far as layouts are concerned I have narrowed things down to either a budget /low end Swift or Explorer group product with rear lounge around the £32k mark and the 100bhp engine with 5 speed g/box. Am I right in thinking this particular engine/gearbox is less affected than the 6 speed 130bhp variant? Would I need to invoke some form of caveat with the dealer to avoid disputes in future if it turns out to be a lemon. I am none to keen on many Euro style layouts and equipment and of course Transit, Renault and Mercedes all seem to crop up on importers products. We would prefer home grown products where possible. I know some of you may be thinking why buy at the end of the season? I intend to use the M/H during the winter for work as my shift pattern means starting between midnight and 4am and as I have around an hours drive each way, I figure staying in the van at work for a few weeks out of a five week cycle will save money and stress. It might also keep the van in better mechanical nick as well as I keep reading about low use issues in the mags. I also hope the prices may be keener also. What do you think? Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoHomer Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Personally, I'd love a Merc but can't afford one so I run a Mk6 Transit coachbuilt and it's excellent. Renault base vehicles seem to have had a good press. M'homes on these base vehicles do seem to be in short supply however. Read between the lines! I also think it makes sense to go for "home grown" - apart from anything else I like to think that, should I need to, I can go and camp out on the convertor's forecourt in the event of a real problem. I haven't had to yet. Your best caveat to invoke is, I suggest, Caveat Emptor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Honest answer? You seem to have decided what you want, and you seem to know the risks with the base vehicle. On this basis, if it were me, I would proceed accordingly. But, you are asking a group of people you don't know, and whose competence / experience you don't have any evidence for, what they think. I'm therefore not sure what answer you are expecting, or really, why you are asking.However, I forecast respondents will, mostly, advise against the Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen base vehicle unless and until it is generally accepted that the judder problem has been cured, and you can guarantee getting a judder free example.You can try for any additional guarantee of satisfaction from your dealer you like. My next forecast is that if you can construct one that is legally watertight to the point at which the dealer would be forced into a full refund/replacement if you were dissatisfied, no dealer (saving perhaps one who knows he will shortly go bankrupt :-)) will accept it. If they will accept the wording, I'd suggest the wording is inadequate!Your choice of layout is for you alone, and the layout you describe is generally not produced in Europe, so you are probably limited to UK made vans as you say. However, you also say you are not keen on European equipment, and I do wonder what you have in mind. Most of the "equipment" (fridges, toilets, heaters, hobs, sinks, etc) built into UK motorhomes is of non UK origin, and is identical to that supplied to non-UK motorhome manufacturers. Most is of good quality and reliable.I would also suggest you make sure your proposed manufacturer and dealer have good reputations for the quality of their products, and service. Sadly, the better reputed motorhome manufacturers are not, generally, UK based.Last comment. As you are proposing extensive winter use, I would suggest you check carefully the degree of winterisation your proposed van will have. Generally, UK produced vans are less thoroughly winterised, and offer fewer enhancements for cold weather use, than those sold for colder climes. As ever, you pays your money etc, but you may find you have problems with keeping adequately warm, or high energy consumption, where insulation standards are lower, and possibly with higher rates of condensation on internal surfaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rough Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Don't buy a a new model Fiat from 2007 inc & onwards. I have just bought a 2007 Rapido which has had all the mods done on it and whilst it will go up the footpath onto the drive it WILL NOT REVERSE UP MY ROAD WHICH IS ON A SLOPE WITH OUT JUDDERING. I am now faced with trying to get the dealer to take it back, after all I did ask the question before buying. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I have done around 17000 miles in our 3L fiat based 4 ton M/H, it has been absolutely trouble free, while it will judder in reverse on slopes or uneven surfaces I seem to be able to control this by lowering the revs, this engine has huge amounts of torque and will pull well on tick-over,at the moment we have no intention of changing it as it is better than our previous Merc 316 or 2.8 fiat, PS i am not saying some have not had problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famcunni Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 Brian Kirby - 2009-06-29 4:00 PMHonest answer? You seem to have decided what you want, and you seem to know the risks with the base vehicle. On this basis, if it were me, I would proceed accordingly. But, you are asking a group of people you don't know, and whose competence / experience you don't have any evidence for, what they think. I'm therefore not sure what answer you are expecting, or really, why you are asking.However, I forecast respondents will, mostly, advise against the Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen base vehicle unless and until it is generally accepted that the judder problem has been cured, and you can guarantee getting a judder free example.You can try for any additional guarantee of satisfaction from your dealer you like. My next forecast is that if you can construct one that is legally watertight to the point at which the dealer would be forced into a full refund/replacement if you were dissatisfied, no dealer (saving perhaps one who knows he will shortly go bankrupt :-)) will accept it. If they will accept the wording, I'd suggest the wording is inadequate!Your choice of layout is for you alone, and the layout you describe is generally not produced in Europe, so you are probably limited to UK made vans as you say. However, you also say you are not keen on European equipment, and I do wonder what you have in mind. Most of the "equipment" (fridges, toilets, heaters, hobs, sinks, etc) built into UK motorhomes is of non UK origin, and is identical to that supplied to non-UK motorhome manufacturers. Most is of good quality and reliable.I would also suggest you make sure your proposed manufacturer and dealer have good reputations for the quality of their products, and service. Sadly, the better reputed motorhome manufacturers are not, generally, UK based.Last comment. As you are proposing extensive winter use, I would suggest you check carefully the degree of winterisation your proposed van will have. Generally, UK produced vans are less thoroughly winterised, and offer fewer enhancements for cold weather use, than those sold for colder climes. As ever, you pays your money etc, but you may find you have problems with keeping adequately warm, or high energy consumption, where insulation standards are lower, and possibly with higher rates of condensation on internal surfaces.Thank you Brian I think you have hit the spot and honest answers are always the best in MHO. The purpose of asking is to stimulate opinion and then pick the bones out of others viewpoints as I have never owned a Motorhome. I know how a wobble box works having caravaned before, but worry about the base vehicle in the conversion. In a caravan if your prime mover isn't right you change it to one that is. With a motorhome what do you do then?? It seem's to me that selecting a suitable Motorhome is a bit of a compromise and and I have to ask why are converters are unable offer a choice of base vehicles? I know, of course, that it's the tooling/production/discount's on base vehicle etc, it just annoys me that the layout that suits us at the price that suits us has a perfect MH chassis with a huge question mark hanging over it. I suppose I just want some way of reassuring myself before I sign on the dotted line.I will qualify my statement on european vans equipment. What I mean here is not quality, as I realise even basic components are imported from the EU, its things like the cooking facilities with tiny combi ovens and grills with hobs that look a bit of an after thought to satisfy the English market's needs. This is personal opinion of course, I am sure they are perfectly functional but again its another compromise. With regard to winterisation I take your point and one of my requirements is a dual fuel heating system. One thing I noticed on the Swift Group spec sheet is a reference to thermal insulation level 2, which seems to suggest some winter use without dying from hypothermia. That is pretty nondescript really and I will spend a bit more time getting to the bottom of what that really means.All feedback gratefully absorbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 If you are going to be using it a lot over winter I'd make sure it had a fire in it. Personally I wouldn't buy a m/h without a trumatic fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I'm a curious person when buying anything. I start at the dearest end and the biggest then work downwards to what will fit on my driveway and I'm allowed to drive at 80. I've hired in the US as the picture left, it was pointed out then (just like buying a greenhouse) get the biggest you can. I looked and asked and talked about them for 4 years and chose the Merc based Rapido, I will never change it and it works for us. As for buying a home grown product, why, we live in a world economy, its changing every day, buy from anywhere, its a tough life but that's the way it is. End of story Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelling Tyke Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 The level two insulation, I believe, indicates that the internal temp. will be able to be maintained 20 degrees C above the outside temp. This may well be when all of heating systems are on full power of course. Any water system not inside may freeze.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljen Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hi I think you will struggle to have any dealer admit to any problems with the base vehicle, let alone guarentee the gearbox, he will just fob you off with the bese warranty, which could be Fiat, and we all know what that is like. Whilst not trying to put you off, hopefully the dealer will allow you to test drive, just mak sure you include some hills and try reversing up them, dont pick a gentle slope though, give it a good run up somewhere pretty steep. As for using it in the winter, most uk vans do not match up to the continental vans, as most are underslung, depends where you are in the country though, think it was pretty cold down south last winter and most vans would have struggled with that. We have camped in winter when it was -10 and although warm enough we had to empty the fresh water and just use a watering can and drain into a bucket, but that was the extreme, but if sensible it works, and if on hook up just used a small electric fire, kept on low during the night. Its all about learning and adjusting to life with the van Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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