GypsyTom Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Rather than divert the main Fiat thread I thought it better to start a new one. I'm considering a new motorhome and have narrowed it down to the Hobby Van Exclusive. My new 'van must have two fixed singles and a garage. I can have the Exclusive TL on a Ford Transit or the Exclusive DL which is on Fiat. The TL on Transit is not available in automatic, which I would like, but it's not vital. The DL, is 8 inches longer and a little wider but the extra length seems to be in the cab and not in living space. The DL is, as I said, on a Fiat, so I could go for the 3 litre auto and probably would. What is the opinion of you experts? Fiat or Ford? The other advantage of the TL version with the standard Ford engine is that there's a much bigger payload and of course it will be a lot less cash than the DL with a 3 litre auto, although the price is unimportant as I'm more concerned with getting the right 'van than saving dosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Before making a final decision, and assuming you have not already done this, I would look also at least at the Hymer Van, which is very similar, and also Transit mounted. If you are prepared to risk a Fiat, there are a lot of other contenders, though few with the single bed option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 Thank you but I don't want a Hymer. Nothing wrong with the brand I'm sure but a factor is the availability of a decent independent dealer not too far from home and the Hobby fills the bill. I've heard people say that the Fiat is a far better vehicle than the Ford (gearbox problem apart) and that the three litre automatic should be OK. In fact the basic 2.3 litre may be OK when I buy a new 'van next year. Is this the case? Ignoring the gearbox problem, is the Fiat a much nicer vehicle? The Hobby is exactly what I want and the choice of the TL or the DL will come down to the chassis that I decide on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I can't speak for the X250 Fiat at all, but I find the Transit a reasonably quiet, comfortable, powerful, responsive vehicle. Good brakes, good steering, good gearchange (once warmed up), and a fair ride quality once the silly tyre pressures are sorted.Ours in on the shorter wheelbase, which creates some issues with traction when laden, but the single beds version is on a longer wheelbase so should be better balanced. Current models are 140PS, ours is 130PS and sufficient puff is not an issue so, with 140PS on a slightly larger, though no heavier van, it should be quite entertaining - in a motorhomey sort of way. I had an issue with stalling when it was new, but after a recent Ford remap to incorporate an anti-stall programme, that has disappeared as an issue and, overall, I find it quite enjoyable to drive.Oh yes, and it will reverse up hills - within reason. It does have a dual mass flywheel, and this does seem intolerant of slipping, tending to smoke if overtaxed. However, with the new anti stall feature, the need to slip the clutch at higher revs so as to avert a stall, is virtually eliminated and consequently, "clutch abuse" is much reduced. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 At this moment in time and for the foreseeable future I would not consider a Fiat. There is nothing wrong with a Ford as long as you are happy with the conversion. the new 2.2, 6 speed has plenty of power with 140 BHP. Just go try one and compare. Plus it is nearly 100 kg lighter then a 3 litre fiat with auto. 3 litre in an A class or large camper? maybe. but in the class you are considering I think it is unnecessary. I am considering the same layout as you, but not mad about the Hobby's Germanic styling......... my van is on the same chassis as Brians and is a cracking van with plenty of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I had a 2.3L 6speed on a Swift Bolero, new march 2008 and took it to Spain. It was good going forward, but because of the Swift build quality and the Fiat part, I Pxd it for a Ford 2.4L/Autosleeper after a few months. I have taken the Ford to Spain 3 times and now have 6k miles on the clock. More than happy with the Total package, especially the ford part. You pays your money and makes your choice - but I will recommend the Ford as your base vehicle. Good luck with whatever your choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I thought that it was the 3litre X250 that still has a problem with no available fix at all unlike the smaller engine versions that possibly, maybe do have a fix? Still wouldn't buy an X250 chassis yet, I would go for the Ford myself, no personal X250 experience but based only on a friends problems, who lost £8 to 10000 getting rid of his Wentworth and going MBenz. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 If you go for the Ford Transit rear wheel drive, maintainance and servicing is cheaper because it is of conventional build with everything in the proper way around. Ask yourself why most comercial vans on our roads are Ford Transits???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Transit would be my choice without doubt. The mechanical bits are in the right places as is the drive and the engine points in the right direction. But most of all peace of mind as no one can be as bad as Fiat when it comes to supporting motorhomers with problems. Plus Ford spares are generally less expensive. I would perhaps pay for the heavier more traditional solid flywheel option. But then again I would be searching for a MB van, C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 We have the Mk6 Ford twin rear-wheel drive and our Rimor is nigh on 24ft and it just about flies!!!! Despite it having a floor mounted gear lever we haven't found this a problem at all, the only thing we had to get used to was the pick-up from standing, as if you don't get it right you can stall it, but once we got the hang of it, it was no problem at all. Not sure about the Mk7 version for this as I've not driven one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 GypsyTom - 2009-12-13 5:53 PMRather than divert the main Fiat thread I thought it better to start a new one.I'm considering a new motorhome and have narrowed it down to the Hobby Van Exclusive. My new 'van must have two fixed singles and a garage. I can have the Exclusive TL on a Ford Transit or the Exclusive DL which is on Fiat.The TL on Transit is not available in automatic, which I would like, but it's not vital. The DL, is 8 inches longer and a little wider but the extra length seems to be in the cab and not in living space. The DL is, as I said, on a Fiat, so I could go for the 3 litre auto and probably would.What is the opinion of you experts? Fiat or Ford? The other advantage of the TL version with the standard Ford engine is that there's a much bigger payload and of course it will be a lot less cash than the DL with a 3 litre auto, although the price is unimportant as I'm more concerned with getting the right 'van than saving dosh.DRIVE BOTH you will soon know how much better the fiat is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 We were not put off Fiat by some of the comments on this forum. O.K. our Fiat is on the 5 speed box, but is great going both forwards and backwards. So go for Fiat unless you intend reversing up 1 in 4 hills with blind bends as a matter of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Fiat without a doubt. I have driven both and it is better in every way, now the gearbox is sorted any model should be ok. having said that both vans are fine. People talk about them going well, they do not they are VANS they both drive like vans. The Fiat for me is the better to drive but in reality this is not much to shout about it is a box on wheels and although you want it to be comfortable for long journeys an Aston Martin it is not. To me the base is of minor importance, they are all ok, the bit that matters is the box on the back and does it suit your needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 Ah well! Even more confused! The Ford Transit in question is front-wheel drive by the way, not rear-wheel drive. I think that Rupert's advice may be the best. Go for the 'van layout that suits me best and ignore the chassis. I'm leaning to the Hobby Van Exclusive TL500 on a Ford. It's payload is about 120kg greater than the Fiat based DL model and if I went for the 3 litre Fiat with the auto box that's another 50kg or so off the already smaller payload. Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Well, at least the FWD transit doesn,t object to reversing - but if it did you have a far better chance of satisfaction out of Ford I guess than that demonstrated by Fiat. Its your money. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Let's face it, we're each going to recommend the van we spent thousands on rather than admit we got it wrong! But that doesn't in any way influence my view :D that the Ford, even in the 110bps FWD form I've got, is brill! Now join DAFTIES! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Rupert123 said about Fiat, " now the gearbox is sorted". Is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 What is happening about all the older x250's which have not been modified yet along with the second hand ones out of warramty etc, are they being rectified by Fiat if they judder? Surely this is where the fight for getting them updated out of warranty free of charge should now be concentrated. Certainly a fee for the wear on clutch due to mileage would may be appropriate to cover wear and tear, but Fiat should stand the cost for the rest of the mods. And of course the 3.0 juddder continues but is not clear if it is 'normal 'vibration' or indeed judder. This does not alter the fact the gear ratio is still not suitable for safe reversing judder or no judder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 darn the 30 mins edit time - have posted above in wrong thread. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 GypsyTom Both of these motorhomes are quite long for their wheel-base, particularly the Fiat version (near enough 7 metres), which means there's bound to be a fair amount of rear overhang. I've not seen either model in the flesh, so I don't know if the overhang translates to low rear ground clearance, but it's something worth bearing in mind. On the Ford-based model, you should check carefully whether the combination of a non-adjustable steering-wheel and the increased seat height caused by the cab-seat swivels results in an uncomfortable/unsafe driving position for you. Regarding gearboxes, the 6-speed transmission used on the latest FWD Transit is a different design to the previous 5-speed gearbox and offers lower 1st- and reverse-gear ratios. This should simplify hill-starting/climbing (forwards or backwards) - something that the 'old' FWD 5-speed Transit was never great at due to its overly high gearing. There seems to be sufficient evidence now to believe that specifying the Fiat 3.0litre motor with automatic gear-shifting will immunise a buyer against the X/250 'juddering disease'. The Fiat chassis is technically more sophisticated than the Ford and much more oriented towards conversion into a coachbuilt motorhome. On balance and ignoring cost, I think the Ducato-based version would be the better choice. (It's perhaps worth observing that a fixed longitudinal twin-bed layout is very space consuming and, unless the motorhome is well over 7m in length, will inevitably produce constraints outside the bedroom area - like a small front lounge, dinky kitchen or compact bathroom. Access doors to 'garages' beneath the beds may also be smaller in size than one might anticipate.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil malcolmson Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Having had both, go for the Ford every time, much better build quality, The bits you touch are nice to touch,the doors dont feel like they are going to fly off above 60mph. the gearbox is not made of chocolate. and it hasn't got Italian electrics.. The radios are not a ten year old design Fiats are as cheap as chips for a reason.. No contest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Oi! Stop 'Italian' bashing will you! My van's rear end is a Rimor conversion and it's been great - no quality/build problems not like the Rapido ... or Swift ... we had!!! :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 This has been very interesting but what is clear is that those who have the Ford Transit appear to be happy with it. This is important to me as the model that I really would fancy is the Van Exclusive TL, which is only available on a Ford chassis. The payload on this alone makes it favourite. All Hobby Vans bought in the UK come with a very high spec including the uprated (140BHP) engine, Remis blinds, built-in sunshade, reversing camera, full oven etc. I am aware of the drawbacks of two longitudinal beds in a M/H just under 7 metres but we like the idea of twin singles, no bed making and a huge garage. I enjoy lounging down to read and I can always lounge on one of the beds of course! I'm grateful for all your comments and have learned from Derek Uzzell about the non-adjustable steering wheel and will make sure that I'm comfortable with the driving position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Hi Gypsy Tom There is also the Westfalia Van, based on the Transit that maybe of interest to you The Van we viewed (NEC Oct -08) was the twin rear wheel, so possibly rear wheel drive, but recall seeing that either front or rear wheel drive options are available. From memory I think it was on display on the Roy Woods stand. Unfortunately for us, it did not have a low level berth, which was one of our priorities. It has a bed above the garage, which is in two parts, front half sliding over the rear half, giving increased kitchen workspace during the day. Very good build quality and looked very impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 MMM Road tester Dave Hurrell bought himself a new Transit to convert to a bespoke motorhome. Now surely he must see oodles of them. Rear wheel drive as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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