hymer1942 Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Morning all, does anyone know what happened to stop the trains, surely not SNOW. Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camperdude Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 From the news reports it sounds like the trains can't cope with the sudden change of temperature from sub-zero outside to a fairly warm tunnel. Propably condensation upsetting the electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Trains that can't cope with climate change. That's all we need. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Must be "the wrong sort of snow" some things never change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hymer1942 Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 Well then how do they cope in the likes of say Austria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 In Austria etc they presumably have engineers and planners with more imagination. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 malc d - 2009-12-19 10:31 AM In Austria etc they presumably have engineers and planners with more imagination. (?) Not if their record of fires in road tunnels is taken into account, they don't!Weather in North east France exceptionally cold, so external train components all well sub-zero. Air in tunnel much warmer, due to reduced ventilation, and presumably moister, due to undersea location. Probable consequence, condensation. Condensation in wrong place, big problem! In the hallowed traditions of railways, the cause will be investigated and, when identified, a modification will be made to prevent re-occurrence. This has not happened before, so presumably a combination of atmospheric conditions that had not been foreseen by the designers is to blame.This is engineering folks, products designed to do a job, within designated parameters, to meet a budget. It is of no help making comparisons between differing countries, with different climates. Alpine tunnels (road and rail)are very cold in winter because they ventilate freely, and the air inside is generally very dry because it is so cold. All new ventures bring new problems, and those problems just have to be engineered out as they arise. I am confident this problem will be identified and resolved. I am equally confident that, from time to time, others will emerge and will have to be dealt with in like fashion. Total misery for those on the trains, though, and no brownie points for the way the problem was dealt with by the operator/s. Surely, that, and not the breakdown itself, should be the object of the criticism?And, although I couldn't resist adding to the string, this is surely yet another "Chatterbox" that has been posted into Motorhome Matters??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Brian Kirby - 2009-12-19 11:25 AM And, although I couldn't resist adding to the string, this is surely yet another "Chatterbox" that has been posted into Motorhome Matters??? Absolutely Brian - unless of course one is booked on the tunnel with one's van in the next few days in which case it is very relevant - although one would have to be living on the planet Zog not to have heard or seen this on the news! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Brian I was referring to trains breaking down because of weather conditions, not accidents. I just wonder what the Austrian record is there. And, of course, if YOU are aware of the possible consequences of condensation - I'm just surprised that the engineers who designed the trains didn't think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Highe Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Hi I've had this problem driving in cold weather in Austria and it can be dramatic, as soon as you enter warm, damp tunnel, immediate condensation on exterior mirrors and windows. Fortunately, the Hymer has heated mirrors and windscrean wipers, so you can cope. I suppose Eurostar has encountered this problem affecting its electronics for the first time this week and will solve the problem for the future, no doubt by buying lots of WD40! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Highe Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Hi Whoops, how wrong can I get - I've just come across this from Simon Calder on the Daily Telegraph website from 29th December 2001 (yes 2001):- "...Second place goes to another last train to London, this time the final Eurostar departure from Brussels to Waterloo on 23 December. The timetable promises that it arrives in London at 11pm, GMT. When this moment came, and went, passengers were 20,000 leagues under the sea – or at least 130 feet below the Channel – where they had been for some time. "Anyone with spectacles will know what it's like when you go from the icy-cold outdoors into a very warm restaurant," a Eurostar spokesman explains. "In the same way as your glasses steam up because of the sudden change in temperature, so our locomotives suffered from condensation when they entered the tunnel. They're used to temperature changes, but on the 23 December it was dramatic because of the very cold weather in northern France." After several attempts to restart the engine inside the Channel Tunnel, the call went out for a locomotive that could come in from the cold without shutting down. Eventually one appeared and, with a hiccup or two, it dragged the ailing train to Ashford International station, where it arrived just before 3am. There ensued refugee-like scenes where pregnant women, elderly people and families with small children were urged to change platforms and catch a draughty old Connex commuter train for the remaining 60 miles into London. When one traveller noticed a gleaming Eurostar train had drawn up on the adjacent platform, and that the company's staff from the broken train seemed to be lingering, he asked if it would be a better bet than the by-now overcrowded Connex service. "We don't know when exactly it's going, but we're all catching it," he was told. Eurostar says that passengers were all offered a choice of services. The Eurostar train glided past the Connex one and pulled in shortly before 5am on Christmas Eve." So Eurostar haven't heard of WD40 then! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kontiki Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I've been trying all day to book our trip but can't get anything but a message saying they are busy, just tried again & now the phone just goes dead :-( . Can't book online as I'm using Tesco vouchers & they only just came this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syd Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Just booked for February no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 malc d - 2009-12-19 12:25 PM Brian I was referring to trains breaking down because of weather conditions, not accidents. I just wonder what the Austrian record is there. And, of course, if YOU are aware of the possible consequences of condensation - I'm just surprised that the engineers who designed the trains didn't think of it. I assumed you were referring to the imaginative powers of Anglo/French engineers vis a vis those of Austrian Engineers, rather than the Austrian history of weather induced train breakdown, of which I know naught, so can't help you.Did they think of it? Well, as you surmise, on the basis we all know about it, they must have. What measures you take in response to a potential problem will depend on the perceived likelihood of the problem arising, the likely consequences should it happen, and the cost of eliminating it. These are all judgements the designers will have made but, being judgements, they are inevitably prone to being wrong. Trains do break down, doubtless even in Austria. In the case of the Eurostars, there is the possibility for one to expire in the tunnel, and Eurostar are supposed to have plans to cope with that. It seems they had the gypsy's warning back in 2001, so they should by now have reviewed and improved the evacuation plan, and eliminated the cause of the breakdown. Clearly, they have done neither!However, my point was that it is how the event was handled that caused most of the suffering, and not the event itself. Seems they may have done marginally better the first time, which is inexcusable. If your train may break down in the tunnel due to extreme weather, you should have an evacuation procedure that works, or a relief locomotive on hand to run in to tow the broken down one out. Leaving the passengers to work it out for themselves is an absolute disgrace, and also potentially very dangerous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Bring back steam locomotives I say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Tracker - 2009-12-19 6:48 PM Bring back steam locomotives I say! Could be a bit dodgy in such a long tunnel though ! I remember going 'back to camp' on Sunday nights in a steam train, and rushing to close the windows before entering tunnels to keep the smoke out. Happy days. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Getting one train stuck in the channel tunnel could be seen as unfortunate. But it seems that they managed to get three or four stuck. Sounds extremely inept to me. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Maybe if they heat the water with electric from the live rail instead of coal and recycle the steam by condenser - or maybe a nuclear powered train? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Tracker - 2009-12-19 12:09 PM Brian Kirby - 2009-12-19 11:25 AM And, although I couldn't resist adding to the string, this is surely yet another "Chatterbox" that has been posted into Motorhome Matters??? Absolutely Brian - unless of course one is booked on the tunnel with one's van in the next few days in which case it is very relevant - although one would have to be living on the planet Zog not to have heard or seen this on the news! So .... anyone else a Zogite????? :$ I didn't know until I logged-on just now! :D Just had a shuftie at the report on CNN World to get the gen on what's happened: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/12/19/channel.tunnel/ and then on the BBC site: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8421875.stm Seems that there were problems a Calais port too so even those on the ferries had problems. As for this being on the Motorhome Matters part ... I think it is entirely justified - this part is for useful information for motorhomers, and that is exactly what it is (sorry Brian), not idle chatter ... unless of course you were stuck in the freezing tunnel and your teeth were chattering! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hymer1942 Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 I am glad someone agrees with me that it is a motorhome matter, [ this forum is getting very picky ]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 ............. and I've just seen a motorhomer interviewed in his van, in the queue for the tunnel. He said he might even end up cooking his turkey in the queue. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Hi, My first question was why don't they send in a diesel locomotive? Because it will poison the air in the tunnel, I replied to myself. So I then invented the hydogen powered loco. But later I saw a TV shot of a train being pulled by two locos. If they had locos, why didn't they use them? My next idea was a long chain, like they use on vernacular railways. Or fit each carriage with a "hand pump", beloved of Buster Keaton. Or as I once heard on the radio ..... "First Class passengers get out and walk. Second Class passengers get out and push". Yikes! I must have heard that at least 50 years ago. 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I think you meant funicular not vernacular 602. It appears that only the Eurostar trains are affected in this way as Eurotunnel's own trains which carry cargo and vehicles are fine. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Highe Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Hi Perhaps Eurotunnel have heard of WD40 and Eurostar haven't! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passionwagon Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 8-) Shuttle is still running. The problem is with Eurostar. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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