AndyB Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hi 1st post on this site. Off to the Edinbrugh CC site next week in our Elddis Sunseeker 120, bought new in June 2009. No probs so far and have been using the van every month so far. Plan to leave the mains heating on most of the time to reduce risk of freezing pipes. Has anybody else got a similar van and if so have they lagged exposed water pipes etc. Will be pouring a bit of antifreeze down waste pipes at night and have a serviced pitch so will be leaving waste valve open. Any other winter tips would be appreciated. Happy New Year Andy :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hi and welcome to the forum. Our van is not winterised as we have never seen the point in paying all the extra money this costs. We never use much in the middle of winter anyway but always have a week somewhere like York in December so sometimes, like this year, we run into a really cold spell. We have only ever had a problem when there have been several days and nights below freezing. Now we keep an eye on the forecast, just one night below feezing will rarely cause a problem but if it looks like two or more just take sensible precautions. The CC site you are going to is a good one with good facilities, we always keep the electric heating on all the time, even on a low setting at night if very cold. As you said leave the drain open but if it is very cold for a few nights you will freeze anyway. We now drain the tanks if forecast is bad and keep a five ltr carrier of water in the van, use site facilities for all washing, showers and washing up. If you intend doing winter trips on a regular basis I would look at heaters in the fresh water tank and lagging any pipes that run outside or near vents. The most likely problem spot will be where the fresh water outlet leaves the tank, if tank is under the van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 If, by exposed pipes, you mean water pipes other than drain pipes that run external to the van, for example under the floor, I don't think lagging will have much effect. All lagging does is to reduce the rate at which heat is lost from whatever is lagged. It does not prevent the heat loss.Water pipes are of small diameter, and so hold little water. They therefore have little thermal mass, so change temperature relatively quickly. The amount of lagging that can be added in situ is relatively small, so will have little actual value. Add the two together, and you may resist freezing for one cold night, but if sub-zero temperatures persist during the day, and you do not keep running water through those pipes, they will, inevitably, freeze at some stage. If you want a van for winter use in Northern Europe you need all pipe runs, plus the fresh water tank, to be internal. You also need a heated waste water tank and, if you are liable to go to Alpine regions, the waste water pipes to be run internally as well. If your van is similar to the present Elddis Autoquest 120, I think it is a "three season" van for temperate zone use only. I note the Autoquest is on a 3,000Kg chassis, leaving a minimal payload. If your Sunseeker is on the same chassis, I would suggest you check the laden weight, and especially the axle loads, at a weighbridge before you go, just to be on the safe side. It would be very easy to overload it with such a light payload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 Cheers for the replies. I'm keeping an eye on the advanced forecasts and if the weather is too bad we'll stay down South of the UK. Re weight the max is 3500 kgs.It's only designed for 2 persons and we always keep water tanks empty when travelling. The Sunseeker is a limited edition and came with blown air electric heating so can be heated up nicely. We had 2 long weekends away in it earlier on this month with no problems, using the CC sites in Denham & Brighton. If it is too cold in Edinbrugh, we'll just use an inboard jerry can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Brian Kirby - 2009-12-30 3:54 PMIf, by exposed pipes, you mean water pipes other than drain pipes that run external to the van, for example under the floor, I don't think lagging will have much effect. All lagging does is to reduce the rate at which heat is lost from whatever is lagged. It does not prevent the heat loss.Water pipes are of small diameter, and so hold little water. They therefore have little thermal mass, so change temperature relatively quickly. The amount of lagging that can be added in situ is relatively small, so will have little actual value. Add the two together, and you may resist freezing for one cold night, but if sub-zero temperatures persist during the day, and you do not keep running water through those pipes, they will, inevitably, freeze at some stage. If you want a van for winter use in Northern Europe you need all pipe runs, plus the fresh water tank, to be internal. You also need a heated waste water tank and, if you are liable to go to Alpine regions, the waste water pipes to be run internally as well. If your van is similar to the present Elddis Autoquest 120, I think it is a "three season" van for temperate zone use only. I note the Autoquest is on a 3,000Kg chassis, leaving a minimal payload. If your Sunseeker is on the same chassis, I would suggest you check the laden weight, and especially the axle loads, at a weighbridge before you go, just to be on the safe side. It would be very easy to overload it with such a light payload.BrianOne of our first trips in the new van was to Grassington on the weekend before Christmas with 4 - 6 inches of snow each day and temperatures as low as - 6C each night. Daytime temps not above freezing either.Needless to say our fresh water did freeze on the second day and the waste on the fourth day - this, despite keeping the tap open and draining into a waste container. I suspect the slight dip in the section of waste pipe running from the tank outlet to the tap at the side of the van had some water left in that froze but we were still able to use the waste tank itself. Our van has an insulated, underslung fresh water tank and there was an option to have a small heater in it which I was considering having retro fitted and lagging the short section of pipe that runs from the tank to the pump. However, given what you say about the small bore pipework I am re-considering that now. If lagging will not give much protection from several nights of freezing temps (in the UK I might add) then it seems pointless having the tank heater as it is the pipework that seems to freeze most readily rather than the contents of the tank which would take a bit longer.I should also add that we have had 3 IH conversions and have always used them throughout winter but never had the water freeze before - perhaps the new Tio RL has a slightly different arrangement for the pipe runs.David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 I feel Brian is not quite correct here. On our last van we had problems with water freezing at tank outlet. We had a heater fitted and lagged the outlet pipe and no more trouble. The tank heater does not rise the temp much, just enough to stop tank freezing, some of this heat will enter the outlet pipe and lagging will help retain this heat. In our new van, which we do not use in winter much, we to have an underslung insulated tank but have not bothered with a heater yet. Out of interest we were quoted £150 to fit the heater and lag outlet pipe, this was an automatic heater fitted through the tank inspection cover, same as our last succesful one. Doubt it would be much good for the alps but was fine for occasional UK use. Well off skiing tommorow so happy new year all. Henry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naittaw Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 You may or may not be aware that the bus route that used to pass the Edinburgh site gate no longer does, so though I believe that a mini-bus firm is providing an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted January 1, 2010 Author Share Posted January 1, 2010 Naittaw, Thanks re the bus, we intend going into the centre on Fri, Sat & Sun. Looking forward to the trip. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted January 1, 2010 Share Posted January 1, 2010 You can of course get low wattage silicone tape heaters to wrap round water pipes (I've got loads, so I do know) which are 240V, but if your'e on hookup it's fine and if not (whilst travelling) use an inverter and have a changeover switch for when on hookup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted January 2, 2010 Share Posted January 2, 2010 Hey Peter! I've just thought of a use for your 'excess' tape heaters! Wrap them round your arms and legs whilst travelling ... it's keep you nice and snug!!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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