mike 202 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I have just had my motorhome weighed at 3500Kg fully loaded, and on enquiring with VOSA about the accuracy of the UK weighbridges was told that they were regularly calibrated and were within 1-2% which seems pretty good. However 1-2% of 3500Kg comes out at +/- 35Kg to 70 Kg, so on the basis that the UK weight is on a minus tolerance then the actual weight could be 3570 to produce the 3500Kg reading and say if a French Weighbridge (operated by their police) was neither + nor - then my van could be deemed overweight showing the 3570 on their Scales. Question:- Does anyone know what tolerance our European Friends apply and do they accept our UK Public Weighbride certificate as read ?? Off to France and Spain at the end of March. Thanks Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I think the Gendarmes would not be interested in your certificate.In my experience they check the weights on the plate of the vehicle and then put your vehicle on the weighing pads.If you are over the weight they will escort you and the vehicle to the nearest police station and you will be made to unload the vehicle until you are down to the legal weight.you then make arrangements to have the offloaded picked up.Then of course they hit you with the fine, and its not small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Randonneur - 2010-03-09 4:53 PM I think the Gendarmes would not be interested in your certificate.In my experience they check the weights on the plate of the vehicle and then put your vehicle on the weighing pads.If you are over the weight they will escort you and the vehicle to the nearest police station and you will be made to unload the vehicle until you are down to the legal weight.you then make arrangements to have the offloaded picked up.Then of course they hit you with the fine, and its not small. Same in Spain. I would be concerned to be that close to the limit anyway. What about water, have you emptied the cassette, have you drained the waste tank, oh yes and what about the wine you bought. In my view it is a risk too far. But up to you of course*-)(lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian81 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Having just returned to France via Spain from Morocco and watched many motorhomes, mainly French, heading south heavily laden I wonder how active the law enforcement bodies are in France and Spain in this area of enforcement? Having discussed with several French motorhomers the lack of much carrying capacity given that many vehicles are supplied over 3 tonne before solar panels, satellite dishes and so on are fitted, their response has been a smile and a Gallic shrug!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 As important, is whether the individual axles are within limits. So also, is remembering to ensure that driver, and all intended passengers, pets etc, were also present and on board when the vehicle was weighed.Assuming both the above requirements were met, you still have a few choices. First, you could reduce the weight of your van by, say, 35Kg (or 70Kg for as near total peace of mind as possible). That should then fall within any reasonable margin for error. All such equipment will be prone to a degree of error, so differences between your weighbridge ticket and their pads, if you are weighed, should not then cause a problem. You could always get in first by presenting the UK certificate, but they would be unlikely to accept that as definitive, because you could always have added more load since getting the ticket.An alternative might be to visit another weighbridge for a "second opinion", in the hope it will confirm the first result or show a lower weight. I don't know what you should expect, as most weighbridges operate in a range well above motorhome MAMs, and accuracy at 38 tonnes will not necessarily be consistent down to 3.5 tonnes. The electronic weighbridges are said to be the most accurate, so it might be worth checking for one such if you are still concerned. However, I suspect there will be few mechanical weighbridges still in use, so it is likely your result is already from an electronic machine.Finally, just go with your present ticket. Unless you know something we all don't, such as your van looks very low at the rear, or some such, I can't see why you should be singled out for weighing. However, if it does, do check that rear axle limit, because if you were weighed, it would not be just the MAM you would be required to comply with, but the also axle limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 I decided to get my Coachbuilt weighed as a result of reading advice on this forum - so many thanks to those who raised and commented on the weight subject previously. Also thanks for the replies and in answer to some of the points raised I offer the following :- Yes it was weighed with me and the wife onboard, plus front and rear axles. Both axle weights were well within their individual maximums. I also went, within 1 hour, to a second weighbridge in the Portsmouth area after removing 20L or 20Kg of water and it weighed 3480Kg, so I will travel with some spare capacity. The motorhome is on a ford base and the axles added together come to 4000Kg. I guess that there must be a lot of motorhomes out there that are well overloaded. I was shocked to find mine at the limit as I had 500Kg to use, but I guess that it came out of the factory needing to go on a diet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 I'm just curious but how often do French and other countries' police do spot checks on motorhome weights? In many years of touring France and other places as a tugger and motorhomer I've never seen any spot checks. (That's not to say by the way that I don't think they exist as they obviously do.) Where do they tend to be? Presumably they must be near a weighbridge or do they have some form of portable equipment? I've just ordered a new 'van with a payload of over 600kg but what I'm reading above makes me think that I should still get it weighed before crossing the Channel. Do they also do spot checks in the U.K.? I seen many spot checks on lorries but do they bother pulling in motorhomes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Yes JT VOSA carry out checks on motorhomes in the UK, lets face it it's income. As to France the last time I was there the police seemed to concentrate on caravans and the drivers coming toward me flashed their lights to warn me of their presence. They wait in large laybys just ouside towns. Best to be safe than sorry. 8-) John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tuckley Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Hi, All, We have just spent three months in Spain but went and returned on the Bilbao ferry so did not enter France at all. Before we went I raised this point about weight on this site and got really good advice. Acting on Brian's advice, I took the laden vehicle complete with wife to a local electronic weighbridge and was well in on axle and MAM weights. I did have very little water in the tank (Just enough for the loo really) and I had a full tank of deisel. Don't know whether the water tank should have been full but it does help to have an easy mind when travelling in case of a pull by VOSA or the Guardia. Had other motorhomers talking down the whole thing whilst away. You know the sort of thing "I have driven all over UK and Europe well overweight and never had a problem" Well sorry boys, I like to be legal. I also wonder if Insurance would be invalid if the vehicle is overweight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 GypsyTom - 2010-03-09 6:52 PM Presumably they must be near a weighbridge or do they have some form of portable equipment? They use lightweight portable scales that are similar in principle to bathroom scales and you simply drive two wheels up onto two scales and it shows the axle weight. Do this twice - front and rear axles - et voila - you have the total vehicle weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongpiper Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 My current M/H (an Auto-trail Tracker EKS) weighs about 150Kgs more than the manufacturers' 'estimated' figure, so cutting our payload to the bone. The previous vehicle (an Autosleeper Nuevo) was similarly overweight, as were the four towing caravans before that. From this, I have come to expect this underestimation by the makers to be the norm. Our Tracker is 6.2Metres long and Gross 3500Kgs, but there are many bigger 'vans which are supposed to be 3500Kgs too, so what do they really weigh? Will the manufacturers ever quote realistic figures? Neil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travelling Tyke Posted March 9, 2010 Share Posted March 9, 2010 Hello.......We got our van in 2006, loaded it up with what we wanted to carry, full tank of water, full gas cylinders etc and then I went to get it weighed..... We were "safe" by 100 kgs...except that I wasn't on board! I weighed 75 kgs, so that left 25 kgs for the boss....... So, I removed the tow bar, all 55 kgs of it, now the boss could come. But, we were "tight". (Ok, I know I could ditch the water and gain 75 kgs etc.) So I had her re-plated, fitted air-rides and tyres that could carry the extra weight. Sooooooo. If you are not happy with your situation, then re-plate. It is a safe method and less hassle than being overweight and caught! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted March 9, 2010 Author Share Posted March 9, 2010 Armstrongpiper - Mine is also an Autosleeper so I guess that your experience with your Nuevo etc tells the story of overweight from the manufacturer. I was supposed to have 528Kg load factor. It certainly explains why I was shocked with the first weight at the weighbridge with water and lots of goodies onboard. Way over 3500. The 2nd 3rd and final weigh in produced 3480. Still trying to shed all but the absolute essentials but at least I will be legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Some motorhomes have VERY poor load margins indeed.I think its because we all want vans weighing 3.500kgs, we want ovens, awnings etc. etc.Very often bags of space and it just all won't go.I also think though that if you are a newbie and see this lovely van with all the bells and whistles, unless you ask, no one will mention the load margin.We saw a 4berth Hobby with a load margin of about 380kgs.Manufactureres are allowed a +or minus of 5% as well.that can add up to quite a lot.Magazines can be as bad about load margins as well!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 The June 2006 issue of "Le Monde du Camping-Car" magazine included an article on how accurately motorhome manufacturers' external dimension and 'empty weight' brochure data were. Seven motorhomes were measured - 3 x Roller Team, 2 x Burstner, 1 x Hymer and 1 x Elnagh. Of these, only the Elnagh exceeded the manufacturer's size figures and that by just one centimetre in height, with the rest of the vehicles being accurately described or below the stated dimensions. Weight was more revealing. Two of the motorhomes in the survey apparently had no 'empty weight' brochure data. Three were within 20kg of the brochure weights (+12.60kg, +17kg, +17.60). One Burstner was +75.60kg (still within the manufacturer's stated +/-5% tolerance). The other (an Elegance I-690G A-Class) was +189.60kg - 6% above its brochure weight, severely compromising its payload capacity. It may be significant that no French-manufactured motorhomes were included in the LMdCC testing, as there's no doubt whatsoever that a significant percentage of larger French motorhomes (especially the A-Class models), marketed with a 3500kg MAM to meet French driving licence regulations, must be travelling well overweight. It's not just the Continentals that build obese motorhomes though. A ex-neighbour of mine once told me that, having (purely by chance) weighed his brand-new UK-built motorhome at a VOSA testing station, found that it had NO payload, being right on its MAM limit with just a driver on board - no passengers, no baggage, no water/gas. He told me that the manufacturer replaced the vehicle without argument, but it had not been a confidence-inspiring experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Fit a 12V valve to the drain on the fesh water tank(see link) then at the touch of a switch you can dump your water before they get you to the scales. I only travel with about 25litres of water enough for toilet flush wash up etc.but 25 litres is 25 kilo. I am not advocating traveling seriousley overweight but a few kilos will make no differance to saftey after all the 3500 kg is just a figure dreamed up by politicians. http://stores.ebay.com/valves4projects Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 CAK Tanks (www.caktanks.com) also market 12V/24V solenoid-operated drain valves in various sizes. Handy for fitting to your waste-water tank as you can open the valve via a simple switch and empty the tank while travelling. Best to do this in wet weather, of course, as dumping 20 gallons or so of dirty water on the road can irritate other drivers, but it will be much less obvious in heavy rain when the road is already wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 mike 202 - 2010-03-09 10:05 PM Armstrongpiper - Mine is also an Autosleeper so I guess that your experience with your Nuevo etc tells the story of overweight from the manufacturer. I was supposed to have 528Kg load factor. It certainly explains why I was shocked with the first weight at the weighbridge with water and lots of goodies on board. Way over 3500. The 2nd 3rd and final weigh in produced 3480. Still trying to shed all but the absolute essentials but at least I will be legal. Don't forget, though, that the published payload will also have to absorb the weight of any options/extras, such as awning, bike rack, satellite dish, second battery, solar panels etc. 528Kg, if it excludes the weight of water, gas and driver, is not much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 Brian, Rang the Factory and they suggested that the weighbridge normally being used for 40 Tonne vehicles was not of much use when weighing a 3.5 Tonne vehicle. So a friend took his Knaus to the same weighbridge (same day) as a favour to me and his complete with scooter was 3410Kg, therefore I am confident that this particular weighbridge is not producing false high readings. They told me that my Autosleeper would have left tha factory +/- about 20Kg from the published figure. That includes the standard fit awning, spare wheel etc. So at some point I will take everything out and take it to the factory to be weighed ex works, plus solar panel and fuel of course and see what their scales say. In the mean time thank you for your constructive suggestions. I will inform the forum with any results on weight that I get in the future Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmbeedee Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 mike 202 - 2010-03-11 10:03 AM Brian, Rang the Factory and they suggested that the weighbridge normally being used for 40 Tonne vehicles was not of much use when weighing a 3.5 Tonne vehicle. So a friend took his Knaus to the same weighbridge (same day) as a favour to me and his complete with scooter was 3410Kg, therefore I am confident that this particular weighbridge is not producing false high readings. They told me that my Autosleeper would have left tha factory +/- about 20Kg from the published figure. That includes the standard fit awning, spare wheel etc. So at some point I will take everything out and take it to the factory to be weighed ex works, plus solar panel and fuel of course and see what their scales say. In the mean time thank you for your constructive suggestions. I will inform the forum with any results on weight that I get in the future Mike Mike, any weighbridge being used for trade purposes has to be extremely accurate, just like any scales in a shop for instance. It has to be accurate ALL THE WAY UP THE SCALE, from minimum to maximum. It will be checked regularly by your local Weights & Measures inspectors, part of the Trading Standards department. If you are in any doubt you can ask to see the calibration certificate or contact trading standards. In a past life (many years ago) I was QC Manager for a weighing machine manufacturer & having had a cursory glance at the tables it appears the maximum permissable error for a class 4 (least accurate) 40 tonne weighbridge will be 10kg. Percentages do not come into it, all the tables just give the permissable error & that is the error at minimum & maximum weights. So if this weighbridge, for instance, has a range of say 500kg to 40 tonnes, it has to be within 10kg at each of those weights & all the way up the scale in between. And yes, they do check all the way up the scale, at least in my day they did! As I say it has been many years since I looked at this stuff, so maybe someone more up-to-date will know more, but I would confidently state that weighbridge error will be the least of your problems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted March 16, 2010 Author Share Posted March 16, 2010 Eembeedee, Thanks for that, another friend has a new late 2009 Merc based autosleeper and his was seriously overweight as well. So we tried the same proceedure, strip out almost everything and get it weighed, same weighbridge. The result was the same as mine, a reading well above the Ex Works figure even when fuel was taken into account so in my mind it brings onto serious doubt the figures published in the A/S brochure an my handbook. I have contacted VOSA technical dept and they have confirmed your figures by stating, regular calibration and a maximum error of +/- 1% which in my case is 35Kg. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Surely some of this must be of interest to trading standards.Things are suposed to be fit for the purpose they were sold for.A van should be able to carry the alloted number of passengers, fuel, gas and a reasonable amount of personal good including bedding, pots, pans etc and stay within its maximum weight.If it can't its not fit for purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmbeedee Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 mike 202 - 2010-03-16 8:56 AM Eembeedee, Thanks for that, another friend has a new late 2009 Merc based autosleeper and his was seriously overweight as well. So we tried the same proceedure, strip out almost everything and get it weighed, same weighbridge. The result was the same as mine, a reading well above the Ex Works figure even when fuel was taken into account so in my mind it brings onto serious doubt the figures published in the A/S brochure an my handbook. I have contacted VOSA technical dept and they have confirmed your figures by stating, regular calibration and a maximum error of +/- 1% which in my case is 35Kg. Regards Mike Yes Mike, but with respect to VOSA it is not their responsibility to check the accuracy of the weighbridge. This is the responsibility of the Weights & Measures dept. of Traading Standards. If you give them a call they will be able to confirm the maximum error permitted on the weighbridge concerned & when it was last calibrated. The weighbridge operator should have the calibration certificate as well. IME, it will NOT be expressed as a percentage but as a (small) allowable errror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 We had our auto sleeper weighed, we had a full water tank & waste tank (forgot to empty it) enough gear for a two week trip, results below. ACTUAL WEIGHT OVERALL WEIGHT: 3080 KG FROT AXEL: 1340 KG REAR AXEL: 1660 KG PLATED WEIGHT 3400 KG 540 KG (TOWIG) 1 1750 KG 2 1900 KG I realise that there is a slight difference when you add both axels together but was surprised with the result. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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