KeithR Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 ive been told by my (fiat/peugeot) garage that i have a porous sump on my 6 year old 2.8 ducato. ive not noticed any great loss of oil, or noticed any leaking oil. is this a common fault? is it an expensive job? can i just continue for now without incurring a greater problem? i also have a seized turbo gate ? *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJB Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Surely the garage will answer your questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Decorator Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Kieth. An object that's porous means its full of holes, it sounds an odd statement for an item of material that always oily. There could always be sand inclusions in the foundry casting causing 'leaks' through the material. Why was this mentioned was there oil on the floor under the vehicle? Just because the sump looks very oily it doesn't mean its porous, it could be oil seeping out at the joint and covering all the underside. If it is porous it very likely means another sump as a repair is unlikely. Turbo gate ...... not a clue. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 porous sump! never heard of such a thing, however i concur with the decorator, if its the casting you would find oil on the floor,and to be mended you can get it impregnated with metal but this is a specialised job it would be cheaper to get a new sump. dont know how much, prob about £250 try searching parts on the web, i would think a scrapers merchant would have one at a reasonable cost. turbo gate.... no idea jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Grumpy Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Turbo waste gate. Ours went on a 2lt HDI, it's usually only the spring and not too expensive to repair, any garage should be able to do the repair so no need to take it to a main dealer unless it is still under guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 KeithR - 2010-03-10 12:54 PM ive been told by my (fiat/peugeot) garage that i have a porous sump on my 6 year old 2.8 ducato. ive not noticed any great loss of oil, or noticed any leaking oil. is this a common fault? is it an expensive job? can i just continue for now without incurring a greater problem? i also have a seized turbo gate ? *-) Is the sump a casting? Most seem to be bashed tin! Ask them to show you the problem.I think the other item is the turbo waste gate, that clears excess pressure. I believe it is a bit of a sod to reach, so freeing it will involve some additional labour charge. Sleepy van syndrome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Decorator Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Brian, My brain must be somewhere else today, of course there are thin sheet metal pressed sumps, and yes it could well be porous, particularly if the vehicle has been standing in poor conditions and unused for some time, maybe even the sump had been removed and left lying around and deteriorated. I've repaired many a cast alloy sump through the driver hitting rocks or a con rod breakage puncturing a hole. Silverback’s comment on impregnating a casting, yes that can be done but I’m not familiar with the metal aspect, I know that resin can be impregnated and is very effective, but on a sump casting as he says better go buy another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 The 2.8 Ducato has a pressed steel sump pan. They can rust through but surely this would be apparent by oil drops where the 'van is parked? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Decorator Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Cast alloy sumps appear to be a thing of the past and rather antique, a bit like me I suppose!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Not necessarily so Decorator, many modern vehicles still have alloy sumps but the 2.8 Ducato is not one of them. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 KeithR - 2010-03-10 12:54 PM ive been told by my (fiat/peugeot) garage that i have a porous sump on my 6 year old 2.8 ducato. ive not noticed any great loss of oil, or noticed any leaking oil. is this a common fault? is it an expensive job? can i just continue for now without incurring a greater problem? i also have a seized turbo gate ? *-) sump rots from outside in and is very thin http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/OIL-SUMP-GASKET-FIAT-DUCATO-94-2-8TD_W0QQitemZ370228345548QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item5633543acc gives you some idea of pattern part price but shop around as this is quite common,I do not know how much from fiat but I bet Nic euroserv does and may know cheaper place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonaldson Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Evening KeithR, Porous sump normaly caused by rust. Well the only reason I've came across so far. Sumps are made in steel by a a press, like car bodywork. Throw the sheet in and out pops a shaped wing, sump, bonnet, etc., with all excess sheared off and bined. Not an unusual fault. Remember the Escort of old and now the Megane. New sump required. Turbo waste gate can normally be unseized. Caused by carbon build up inside or rust on outside. Douse shaft with WD40 and let soak then gently free it by turning it a bit at a time. You will find it eases and then becomes free. Did I say to tap arm on shaft with a small hammer, no, I better not as this is a surgical issue. But if it is solid, seek professional help. A warning light normally comes up on dash for overboast. Good Luck, Gordon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roamer Posted March 10, 2010 Share Posted March 10, 2010 Hi all I had a similar problem with a Rover Montego when it was obout 8 years old, oil was starting to cover areas of the sump, on cleaning found very small (pin) holes which had been caused by rusting from the outsite. With new engines having very few oil leaks, the sump has no self protection from the pebble dashing it gets from the winter grit and summer chippings, which create holes in the very poor paint used on the sump and rust pits easily form. Having had this problem, I checked my 2 year old Fiat X250 after christmas (having driven it on roads covered in salt, and its the salt that causes the rusting process to accelerate) and found that the front and bottom surface of the sump was already starting to pit and the paint in some areas had very little adhesion to the metal. I have now cleaned, used rust inhibator, red oxide and finished with hammerite. Next year I shall check again as the front of the sump has no protection from being pebbled dashed by road grit and know doubt will have created small holes in the paint. I also noticed that the turbo tube and the end clips were beginning to rust and have taken action to limit this by spraying with silicon grease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted March 10, 2010 Author Share Posted March 10, 2010 thanks for all the info, i can now speak to the garage knowing what they are talking about!# the van was in for a diagnostic, as at high revs a red warning light blipped on. i imagine this is the turbo gate problem? quite why they looked at the sump i dont know, unless it looked unduly oily?? i had never noticed any, nor had to top up between annual services. my confidence in then was disturbed when i asked for a replacement for my rotted tailpipe end. they quoted nearly £400!!! when i pointed out that it was just the 'cosmetic endpipe they said they had looked at the wrong bit? how many ends are there to an exhaust system??? the rotted end was not sleepy van, but the on board water tank overflow being directly above it. i have now resolved this with a bit of tubing. :-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 This is quite a common problem. The garage have either spotted a leak or are pointing out areas of pitting and corrosion that will lead to leaking in the near future. Sumps from Fiat are pretty costly at about £160 plus vat but Hadrain panels do one for about £130 retail, £100 trade which a decent motor factor should be able to order. We have had several and found them to be ok. We always spray them with stone chip paint before fitting to prevent it happening again. In 12 years we have changed about 15 of them with (stangely) the 2.8 being more troublesome than the older 2.5. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 thanks for that, it sounds like a good option. i'll see what my garage are proposing to charge first though. they may make a deal :D ???? not. how many hours for the job?? is it still around £40 per hour (or did i make that up??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Turbo waste gate - we had this on our old Talbot (a good few years ago!). It is commonly a symptom of 'sleepy van syndrome' as has already been suggested. Generally if you don't use your van much (ie its been sitting around), then the waste gate sticks shut so that when you are driving and put the engine under pressure so that the turbo would normaly kick in, the waste gate doesn't open and release the pressure, and the turbo warning light comes on. When we had the problem it was just as we were about to buy the van privately, the then owner had it fixed and it cost him £25 for the garage to sort it out, I would imagine it would cost around £40-£50 now. If you can sort it yourself though as has been suggested, you might not have to fork out for it anyway. Sorry, not a clue about the sump. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 thanks, i guess i can fix it myself then, once i know where it is/what it looks like!!!( perhaps i should ask the garage to show me it, to prove it is seized :-D ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Have a look on the below forum, someone has probably got a picture posted somewhere! http://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/187856-no-power-turbo-problem-can-you-help.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlantisbird Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 Hello porous pump, We have had experience of a porous pump on our Berlingo van and we went onto the google and looked for spares. We had to fill in a form and eventually we got replies from scrap yards with offers of exactly what was required. We went to a dealer near Worksop bought it and got a friend to put it onto our van and it has stopped leaking. It only leaked very slightly onto our drive and we have had no further problems with it. When the old one was taken off you could not tell it had any minute holes in it but that is what it had. Atlantisbird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted March 11, 2010 Share Posted March 11, 2010 £400 quid for a tail pipe! you need to change your garage they are ripping you off!! if you seach internet a stainless full exhaust wont cost you that much!!as for the sump! it will prob be tin! i avent looked yet, get it changed £130 i think got mentioned by euroserve, you can do it yourself(its not difficult) thats still expensive for abit of tin) then....ive lost my train of thought....thats age for you(49) and before all the tyrides start from!!!! leave it at that, IVE AD A WINE OR 2 :D :D :D :D but i was gonna say something useful... HONEST :D :D PS.. BUMP :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted March 11, 2010 Author Share Posted March 11, 2010 hadrian panels mentioned by euroserv have an outlet not too far from me, so i may well give them a call. as for the £400, yes, i told them where to get off. thats when they said they had looked at the wrong bit??? dont understand how as im pretty confident that my exhaust pipe starts at the engine, wiggles around bit and then comes to only one end. the one i said needed a new bit.so where were they looking? someone elses motorhome??? thanks to this forum i now can talk from a position of knowledge (at least, it will sound as though i know what im talking about!!!) :D :D back to the wine, hic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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