air conditioning

[lennyhb]

Surely the weight of a modern aircon compressor & condenser is negligible in overall figure of a van weighing between 3000 - 6000 kg.

 

Any cons are far outweighed by the benefit of of keeping the driver awake and alert.

I know from the odd occasion I have had to drive a vehicle without aircon how much more tiring and wearing it is on the body, certainly something I will not do by choice.

 

 

 

[GypsyTom]

Tracker - 2010-03-11 7:26 PMGypsy Tom - there you go again and again mouthing off at anyone and everyone who deigns to hold a different point of view to yours.Look if you will at how people reply to your point of biew andplease look again at how you reply to them.Do you not see the aggression in your own tone that almost everyone else does see? Do you not think that all this aggression is putting other moderate people off from using the forum - well it is - and once again I feel inclined to refer the thread to the Moderators.You are obviously an intelligent man but unfortunately intelligence alone does not begat tolerance and common sense which is what this forum needs from you as you do make some very valid points.You just need to learn how to make your own points without slagging off everyone else because your valid points get lost in the tirades that you produce ad nauseum.I say this not to attack you but to try to get you to see the view from the other persons point.Your first mission, should you choose to accept it, is to respond without acrimony - this message will not self destruct in five seconds!

You know, you really are unbelievable. Freewheeler said that air conditioning is unnecessary and I disagreed. Other people have disagreed but you and your mate haven't taken them to task.

These attacks, based on nothing more than a personal agenda are becoming boring and predictable.

I notice that since I replied to Freewheeler he has returned to this thread and hasn't sought to criticise my comment to him in any way.

I disagree with his view and he probably disagrees with mine but we're not falling out about it.

Why do you and Mel B feel that you have to act as this forum's police force and stick your snouts where they are not wanted or needed? You may think that you own it but you don't! Butt out!

Oh and by the way, run off to tell teacher again. I noticed that you didn't get anywhere with your last petty gripe.

I'm off out now into the real world so feel free to keep moaning!

[Mel B]

Gypsy Tom

 

Its such a shame that you could not reply with respect for me, only more insults and trying to be belittling again. The way you have replied above, and how you have purposely presented your comments, have basically proved exactly what I was saying in my posting.

 

Antony - I hope you have been able to gleam from this thread the various views on aircon and can make the right decision for your intended use, I hope you have a great time in your motorhome wherever you venture. :-D

[rolandrat]

Here we go again.

[Guest Tracker]

Gypsy Tom's response on this matter is, sadly, exactly as anticipated and I feel that there is nothing to be achieved by responding further.

 

 

[terry1956]

hi, the weight thing is just plain silly, if you have the spare payload alls ok, as to it costing more to run, well thats a factor for the person who pays the bills.

as to a fan, all they do is move the air around useless in real hot weather.

I paid £300 for a year old dometic B2200 off a chap in germany who was giving up motorhoming, apart from the air con bit its a good heater when on site.

it was an easy fit and I moved the hymer shy light toward the front above the bed.

Must say that I sleep so much better up there with the sky light open just a bit.

Anyway can I please ask all of you to cut the picking on each other, its a total bore and would you do it if you were face to face with that person, I don,t think so, so please cut it out and grow up.

terry

[GypsyTom]

Mel B - 2010-03-11 7:36 PMGypsy TomIts such a shame that you could not reply with respect for me, only more insults and trying to be belittling again. The way you have replied above, and how you have purposely presented your comments, have basically proved exactly what I was saying in my posting.Antony - I hope you have been able to gleam from this thread the various views on aircon and can make the right decision for your intended use, I hope you have a great time in your motorhome wherever you venture. :-D

I'm sorry but I'm not going to take this from you any more and you don't deserve respect. Once again you're a meddler who can't keep her nose out of a discussion that didn't even involve her.

Let's recap.

Freewheeler stated quite forcefully that aircon was unnecessary.

I replied that whilst that may be his opinion, it wasn't mine.

Nowhere did I say that he doesn't have a right to that opinion, and I never would.

The thread carried on without any acrimony at all until, once again, PC Mel B followed by her buddy Sergeant Tracker, decided that they are moderators and had another go at me.

I'd never even mentioned Mel B in this thread, why do you think that you have to stick up for Freewheeler? If he's unhappy he can tell me himself.

Lately a couple of good threads have degenerated into a slanging match for the same reason. Mel B and Tracker for whatever their own twisted reason decide to have a pop at me.

In a recent thread Tracker accused me wrongly, of being a bully but this is what another regular contributor said a couple of posts further on:

Well, I don't consider Gypsy Tom "aggressive or confrontational" in his posts. He just states his views in a clear and concise way, albeit robustly!, and I often agree with him. It seems to me that, on this particular thread, there doesn't appear to be that much difference between the contributers views.

So how do you square that Tracker and Mel B? You call my debating style bullying but another person totally disagrees so it can't be that clear cut.

The real truth is that you often talk rubbish and find yourself out-debated and you don't like it and can't wait to have another go at any opportunity.

Together you destroy an otherwise good and robust thread and I've had enough of you.

Do me a favour both of you - unless I'm in direct discussion with you, mind your own bloody business and stop interfering in threads that don't even include you. Other people are grown up enough without MEL B and Tracker deciding what's right and wrong in a debate.

I make no apology for this rant. You are both, in my opinion, poisonous, and responsible more than anyone for the decline in certain threads that were quite happy until you came along.

Please, butt out and leave me alone, I'm sick to death of the pair of you.

[GypsyTom]

rolandrat - 2010-03-11 7:41 PMHere we go again.

Yes you're right and I'm sorry, but please read this thread from the beginning and see where the aggro started. It started not from anyone already engaged in it but from someone who couldn't resist poking her noise in and trying to act as a moderator, but unfortunately, not an unbiased moderator. The her poodle came along for the ride.

[silverback]

right im butting in (lol) as a new user(only to this forum) not to motorhoming, i came onto this site from MMM looking for advice, THIS IS WHAT THIS FORUM IS ALL ABOUT!!! i have gained invaluable advice from derek, brian, mel,Tracker, euroserve, mikenewel, 2 many peeps to think about!! notice you havent posted on Moynes thread!! (You might have done but im not going back thro 20+ pages)(cos thats a serious thread)and all the people abroad, randoner etc berti on his and mbh... trip to portugal,and other users, cant name them all, THIS IS WHAT THE FORUM IS ALL ABOUT!!!

stop ranting! give advice!

GO ELSEWHERE if you want a rant

THIS SITE IS FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT ADVICE

silverback (ak jonathan)

PS its about air conditioning.... the thread.. on which i have no opinion cos i open my window (!) (!)

[jhorsf]

silverback - 2010-03-12 12:20 AM

 

right im butting in (lol) as a new user(only to this forum) not to motorhoming, i came onto this site from MMM looking for advice, THIS IS WHAT THIS FORUM IS ALL ABOUT!!! i have gained invaluable advice from derek, brian, mel,Tracker, euroserve, mikenewel, 2 many peeps to think about!! notice you havent posted on Moynes thread!! (You might have done but im not going back thro 20+ pages)(cos thats a serious thread)and all the people abroad, randoner etc berti on his and mbh... trip to portugal,and other users, cant name them all, THIS IS WHAT THE FORUM IS ALL ABOUT!!!

stop ranting! give advice!

GO ELSEWHERE if you want a rant

THIS SITE IS FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT ADVICE

silverback (ak jonathan)

PS its about air conditioning.... the thread.. on which i have no opinion cos i open my window (!) (!)

 

 

 

 

this seems like a rant to me

[GypsyTom]

silverback - 2010-03-12 12:20 AMright im butting in (lol) as a new user(only to this forum) not to motorhoming, i came onto this site from MMM looking for advice, THIS IS WHAT THIS FORUM IS ALL ABOUT!!! i have gained invaluable advice from derek, brian, mel,Tracker, euroserve, mikenewel, 2 many peeps to think about!! notice you havent posted on Moynes thread!! (You might have done but im not going back thro 20+ pages)(cos thats a serious thread)and all the people abroad, randoner etc berti on his and mbh... trip to portugal,and other users, cant name them all, THIS IS WHAT THE FORUM IS ALL ABOUT!!!stop ranting! give advice!GO ELSEWHERE if you want a rantTHIS SITE IS FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT ADVICEsilverback (ak jonathan)PS its about air conditioning.... the thread.. on which i have no opinion cos i open my window (!) (!)

I'd be grateful if you'd read this thread from the beginning. I posted twice, the first time was what I thought was good advice and the second was to simply disagree that air conditioning in the cab is not unnecessary. It may be for you others but for me and several other contributors it is considered a necessity. 

So far so good and up to then everyone was happy.

Then Mel B, who lately seems to think that she's been appointed as a moderator, decided, once again I might add, to attack my style. Her buddy Tracker, who also seems to think that he's a moderator, chipped in as he usually does.

What's odd, is that my reply to Freewheeler, which PC Mel decided wasn't suitable, didn't actually bother Freewheeler at all! He came back to the thread with no comments or hard feelings.

One thing that you will learn is that there is a small number of people on this forum who think that, because they have been here a long time and their life revolves around it, that they are somehow in charge. Mel B and Tracker are examples of this.

I'm sorry if it was rant but I've had enough of her interference. She constantly chips in to an otherwise happy thread to castigate me when she isn't even involved in the debate with me.

Two threads lately have gone sour just because of her interference and I repeat, I'm fed up to the back teeth with her and her mate and their bitchy back biting.

[Freewheeler]

I had thought that I was relating fact's, although I can see that some people view them as just opinions.

i.e.

Human beings have managed for centuries without aircon, so it isn't necessary.

 

The addition of any extra weight uses more fuel, and this has to be paid for everytime the van is driven, not just when aircon is actually used.

 

The load that aircon places on the engine also uses more fuel.

 

In addition there is the extra cost of servicing aircon.

 

I fully accept that many people would not be without aircon, and might therefore view the extra costs as trivial, but they are a fact of life from which we can't escape, so, if someone is considering aircon, then at least be aware of what it all entails.

 

[GypsyTom]

Freewheeler - 2010-03-12 8:22 AMI had thought that I was relating fact's, although I can see that some people view them as just opinions.i.e.Human beings have managed for centuries without aircon, so it isn't necessary.The addition of any extra weight uses more fuel, and this has to be paid for everytime the van is driven, not just when aircon is actually used.The load that aircon places on the engine also uses more fuel.In addition there is the extra cost of servicing aircon.I fully accept that many people would not be without aircon, and might therefore view the extra costs as trivial, but they are a fact of life from which we can't escape, so, if someone is considering aircon, then at least be aware of what it all entails.

You are absolutely right in one respect that cab air con may not be seen as a necessity as we've managed without it for many years. However, things change and inventions that were never considered necessary are now viewed by many people as essential to their lifestyle.

Take cab air con for example - if I did not have cab air con my wife would flatly refuse to go to hot countries in our motorhome as she loathes having to drive with the windows open to get some cool air. She finds it noisy and dirty and, as a result, she gets a severe migraine.

So it could be argued that for us, cab air con is a necessity and I view it as such!

For you it obviously isn't a necessity and that's fine. No one is denying you your view, despite interference from certain people. All we are saying is that your view isn't shared by everyone.

I hope that I have shown that for me, air con is a necessity, as without it I'd probably have to pack up motorhoming!

If we take this to its logical conclusion a motorhome isn't a necessity, but it is if you want to have a motorhome holiday! Does that make sense?

[silverback]

yeh it was a rant!!! apologies, too many sherbets last night :D

[Brian Kirby]

If person A posts a comment, and a number (any number) of other posters (whoever they may be) take exception to its content, or the way it is written, there seem to be two possibilities.

The first, is that person A's post is unfair, unreasonable, or offencive. 

The other, is that the objectors are unfair, unreasonable, or offencive in their objections.

If the objectors manage to post elsewhere without stirring up a storm, that would seem largely to remove them as the likely causes of the conflict.

On the other hand, if it is person A's posts that are often followed by the storm, should s/he not reflect on what that may imply, and on whether it may, actually be, something about the manner or tone in which they express their views, that causes the storms.

Silverback had neatly summarised the main reason for the existence of this forum.  These long and acrimonious streams of argument about one individuals opinion, or right to express it, seldom advance the subject of the string by one iota. 

I strongly suspect they also put off many would be contributors who fear merely being slapped down for expressing a view.  To consider?

[GypsyTom]

Brian Kirby - 2010-03-12 11:52 AM

If person A posts a comment, and a number (any number) of other posters (whoever they may be) take exception to its content, or the way it is written, there seem to be two possibilities.

The first, is that person A's post is unfair, unreasonable, or offencive. 

The other, is that the objectors are unfair, unreasonable, or offencive in their objections.

If the objectors manage to post elsewhere without stirring up a storm, that would seem largely to remove them as the likely causes of the conflict.

On the other hand, if it is person A's posts that are often followed by the storm, should s/he not reflect on what that may imply, and on whether it may, actually be, something about the manner or tone in which they express their views, that causes the storms.

Silverback had neatly summarised the main reason for the existence of this forum.  These long and acrimonious streams of argument about one individuals opinion, or right to express it, seldom advance the subject of the string by one iota. 

I strongly suspect they also put off many would be contributors who fear merely being slapped down for expressing a view.  To consider?

You omit one other point unfortunately, which is that there is no doubt in my mind that certain people seem to have a personal grudge and are very willing to criticise some people but happy to ignore others whose views are expressed just as robustly.

I also find it strange that one person and presumably others find that my posts, whilst robust, are concise and without any offence.

What is very annoying though is when people seem to think that they are the moderator. I can still see nothing wrong in my first response to Freewheeler. I intended no offence to him and simply wished to put one view as to why I think air con is desirable, as did many others by the way.

Freewheeler was obviously not put out by my post so why do others feel that they need to act as his defender? I know why and it's very annoying and I've had enough of it!

And I would remind you that one of the objectors that you refer to is often at the centre of a storm and not just with me!

[BGD]

GT - for pities sake man, grow up and get a grip.

 

This is a motorhome forum.

 

This thread was started by someone who wanted help and advice.

 

You've hijacked their thread and turned it into a raving, rabid bitch-fest.

 

Just give it a rest.

 

Please.

[Brian Kirby]

That, of course, is the other, succinct, way of putting it!  ;-)

[tonyishuk]

Just joined the thread, seems to be more hot air than any air conditioning unit could deal with :D

 

 

Rgds

[GypsyTom]

BGD - 2010-03-12 3:13 PMGT - for pities sake man, grow up and get a grip.This is a motorhome forum.This thread was started by someone who wanted help and advice.You've hijacked their thread and turned it into a raving, rabid bitch-fest.Just give it a rest. Please.

I'm going to defend myself as I'm truly sick of comments like yours. I didn't hijack the thread. Mel B hijacked the thread when she launched a totally unprovoked attack on me. I hadn't even been in discussion with her but she had to be her usual busybody self and of course that meant that her chum Tracker joined in as well.

Please read the thread and see where it went sour. Before her attempt at being a self-appointed moderator there was no problem with this thread at all.

I make no apology for replying yet again. If you're going to post offensive and untrue statements as you've done above then I'll give you as good as you've chosen to give me and that goes for Kirby as well.

[Guest JudgeMental]

I dont think yiou know Kirby well enough to call him Kirby...what an astonishing man you are please give it a rest :-D

 

(this is not an invitation for dialogue, I have a bad back and in to much pain)

[GypsyTom]

JudgeMental - 2010-03-12 4:03 PMI dont think yiou know Kirby well enough to call him Kirby...what an astonishing man you are please give it a rest :-D (this is not an invitation for dialogue, I have a bad back and in to much pain)

Precisely why I didn't call him by his first name. I don't know him well enough and would not presume. There's nothing astonishing about me Judgemental, what I am is very angry about what's happened in this thread. I did not start this, Mel B and Tracker did and I am going to continually defend my position as a matter of principle. You appear to be another who hasn't bothered to read the thread from the beginning and noted where this row started and who started it.

If any other uninformed and biased individual wants to have a go, please come along!

[Brian Kirby]

What someone writes, unless offered as fact, is self-evidently their opinion.  It needs no further justification in that respect.  One can agree with it or not, and, since it is expressed freely on a "public" forum, one can reply saying so.  So far, so normal.  Tom had already expressed his opinion on aircon:

  GypsyTom - 2010-03-11 10:34 AM To me there is only one obvious answer to this question.  If you can afford it and you'll feel happier to have it, then go for it!

It's obviously better to have something that you may only use occasionally than not to have it at all.  If you find that there are occasions where you can't use it, such as sites where the power isn't sufficient, then you're no worse off than if you'd never bought it.  But if you get caught in a heatwave it may be the best money that you think you've ever spent.

I personally won't be having it on my new Hobby Van as I think I'll need the roof space for my satellite dome and solar panel but who knows, if there's room, one day I may be persuaded.

I can see only one reason for not fitting something that you may even use only occasionally, and that's money.  As I said, if you can afford, get it fitted!

Freewheeler then expressed his:

  Freewheeler - 2010-03-11 4:31 PM Air conditioning isn't necessary and costs too much, weighs too much and uses too much fuel in terms of both it's weight and the load that it places on the engine.  We didn't have a choice with the cab on our van, it was already fitted, but given the choice, I wouldn't waste my money. 

Generating this:

  GypsyTom - 2010-03-11 4:43 PM What you actually mean is that 'In your opinion cab air conditioning is not essential.'

I think that the majority of motorhomers who have had it will disagree.

Personally I loathe driving down a motorway at 65 mph and having to have the windows open to get some cool air.  It's noisy and dirty!  It's much nicer to be able to keep the windows closed and remain cool. 

This does not advance the issue of air conditioning, it is merely an aggressively rude and personal attempt to slap-down Freewheeler's opinion in favour of Tom's own, praying in aid an unsubstantiated majority of motorhomers.  It adds nothing to what has already been said, but merely seeks to diminish another poster's opinion.  It is, in short, an uninformative waste of space, and rude to boot.  (That, of course, is my opinion, and in the context of the string, is another waste of space.)

Mel, justifiably, if a bit nannyishly (Does nannyishly exist?  It does now!), sought to defend Freewheeler from what I also saw as unprovoked aggression but chose to ignore, and Tom became inflamed by a far milder rebuke than he had administered to Freewheeler.  He always blames others for the rows, but he fails to read back to what he actually said to spark it, and seems to have no capacity to read his posts through the eyes of others.  He may not be completely alone, and he is not unique in having the trait he shows.  He has given some useful advice but, to me, it comes at too high a price.

Tom, I really think you should take a break.  Displaying this level of uncontrolled anger on a motorhome forum is abnormal.  These aggressive, argumentative, self serving outbursts are is a bore, they are disruptive, they are unnecessary, and they benefits no-one, including you.

I apologise for the "end of term report" and judgemental (no, not that judgemental! :-)) nature of this post, but if you don't soon reel your horns in a bit, like it or not, you'll just get banned, as have others before you, and that would be a shame.

This is a prediction, not a threat, and I bear you no personal animosity.  Go in peace!

Kirby  :-D

[GypsyTom]

Here we go again. Why do you think that I wanted to slap down Freewheeler? We were discussing the pros and cons of cab air con. He gave us his opinion on its value and I gave him mine.

There was no  animosity intended and no indication that I don't accept that he is as entitled to his view as I am to mine. Why are you so sensitive?

What has angered me is that once again, someone with a personal agenda has chosen to act as a self appointed moderator and to have a go at me.

I am angry - I'm fed up Mel B and Tracker constantly interfering with a discussion that didn't even involve them.

I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that I'm annoyed but tough! I'm as cool as a cucumber about everything else but I'm constantly having to defend what I see as a totally innocent post from a bunch of interfering busybodies.

If Frewheeler is upset by my post, I'll be the first to apologise to him. I just do not want the Chatterbox police force on my back again.

And I'm not going to take a break. My anger isn't uncontrolled! It's just anger! Please give up with the amateur psychology - I know exactly what I'm doing and why!

[GypsyTom]

Let's do a deal as even I'm getting fed up with this and I like nothing more than a good argument!

I will post no more on this subject if everyone else will leave me alone.

I would just ask that the people concerned do not publicly have a go at me if I post to a third party. If that person is unhappy with what I've said they can say so, or if I'm really being rude there are moderators who can take me to task, and none of them did over the post in question!

I'm just fed up with people acting as self-appointed moderators and having a go in public. Send me a PM if you want to tell me something.

Unless I get any more aggro I am now out!