Are you Stingy?

[Tomo3090]

This question is put because of three letters in the new MMM Magazine from readers commenting on meeting other van owners in The Hebrides who were wild camping, not using sites all the time, taking their supplies with them, and accusing them of being "stingy". They don't comment on whether they asked the people they met whether they spent their money on other local businesses or supported local cultural sites and events, so the money they saved on sites could have been spent there instead.

 

They seem to be saying that by just using the main sites for laundry and battery charging and staying there for just a couple of nights it is not being fair to the site owners. Now I don't know about anyone else here but when I bought MY 40-50 thousand pound gin palace the happy thought I could now contribute to a site owners profits never entered my mind! I bought a van that as near as damn it fullfilled my criteria to allow me to be as self sufficient as possible and I could then use my own mind and choose, within the law or personal safety, where I sayed for the night. If I'd wanted to utilise sites with lots of facilities for days or weeks on end I'd have bought a car and caravan, (wash your mouth out Stephen :-D )

 

As for the shopping, when we're away we shop as we do at home, i.e. supermarkets or our "big shop", then local shops for our bread, papers and meat etc. The only addition to local shopping when we're away is we buy milk from the local shop because or milk man won't deliver to where we are staying! (I know, we think the same, no commitment to his customers, but what can you do?) It's hardly my fault if Messrs. ASDA, Tesco or Morrisson won't build their emporia in every town and village in the land is it? So we stock up before we leave at the lowest prices we can. I do believe in supporting local business and we do spend money if we see something we want or on "touristy things" where we have an interest in something.

 

Does anyone else share the opinions of the letter writers in that we, as motorome owners, have a moral obligation when we're away to forget our normal household budgeting and only use local shops for our supplies.

 

It was their moral tone and "holier than thou" attitude that really annoyed me! They take issue with people and form judgments, commenting on how they choose to spend their own money and time, based on meeting them for a short time. They critisise them for not supporting the island economy and then say they've never actually been back to the islands since their visits a couple of years ago, in fact one was last there in 2001, nine years ago, so the money they themselves put into the island economy will surely be running out by now!

 

Their letters were written following one from the month before where someone commnted on the amount of motorhomes on the islands and that the local people were getting resentful of them being there and the infrastructure and facilities weren't meant for motorhomes. We're going to the Hebrides next month for four weeks and planned to do what the "stingy people" did, but now it's even got us thinking if we're not welcome, why go at all when we can take our money elsewhere.

 

I've just realised I've formed opinions of them based on a few, no doubt edited, lines in a magazine, so perhaps I shouldn't be so judgemental after all!

 

Happy vanning to one and all! :-)

[747]

I think this will be a lively thread so here is my two pennorth. :D

 

Unless you can show that you are booked on a site, then Calmac will not allow you on the ferry on some routes. This will hit wildcampers straight away.

 

The subsidised ferry prices are still in place as far as I am aware but I can see that coming to an end.

 

The environment being affected seems to be a big issue on some islands (eg: marginal grazing land and unique areas). This might sound like a useful excuse but is probably true.

 

I believe in supporting the locals wherever I go but I am retired and do not have a limitless supply of cash. A fair price for a fair service is fine with me, unlike a small minority of m/homers who will not spend a penny if they can help it. The way I see it. m/homing a lot cannot be the equivalent of holidays as the cost would be great, so a fair balance is needed. There is nothing wrong with discreet wild camping with a night or two on sites as well. It is the ones who set up on a patch of grass or laybye and stay there for long periods. If thry leave their rubbish behind, that is even worse.

 

Next opinion please. :D

[GJH]

(snip)There is nothing wrong with discreet wild camping with a night or two on sites as well. It is the ones who set up on a patch of grass or laybye and stay there for long periods. If thry leave their rubbish behind, that is even worse.

 

Next opinion please. :D

 

Interesting comment. I certainly wouldn't disagree with the last two sentences.

 

I wonder (only wonder having never been to the Hebrides) whether the apparent upset to the local residents is due to many more people than previously doing some "discreet wild camping" so that it no longer becomes discreet to the local residents, but constant?

 

Graham

[747]

Hi Graham,

 

You could be right because as far as I can see, the numbers of vans have increased dramatically. This is partly down to the subsidised ferry fares.

 

By discreet wild camping, I mean only setting up in an overnight spot at a late hour in the day. Earlier on in the day, public car parks or similar can be used while enjoying the benefits of your surroundings.

 

If someone was to pull up early in the day, set up an awning and put out a table then a totally different picture is presented.

 

If a number of people did this did this near my house on a regular basis, I am sure I would not be too happy about it.

[hallii]

I do not go "north of the border" now.

 

This is due to my experiences there.

 

It would seem that a very small minority do not welcome the presence of subjects of the Ancient Kingdom of Mercia.

 

The ancient flag is shown below.

 

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x306/twoandaquarter/merciaflag.gif

 

May I urge all the subjects of the Kingdom to lobby their MP for a separate independent parliament for the Ancient Kingdom of Mercia?

 

Hallii

[Tony Jones]

I've never been to the Hebrides, although we're considering a major Scottish trip next year. I'd be interested to hear as many experiences as possible of the welcome, or otherwise, M'homers have received there.

 

As far as the usual "wild v site" controversy is concerned, you've heard me on this before but I'll summarise:

 

Wherever we go for a holiday or trip, we have a finite amount of money and we NEVER bring any of it back. Therefore, the more we spend on site fees the less we spend at tourist attractions or other businesses.

So if we can sleep somewhere very cheaply (or free) without causing a problem to others, then we do, with a clear conscience as far as the local economy is concerned. If we're in an area where that's not possible or permitted, we'll cheerfully go to a campsite, but we'll spend less elsewhere in that area.

 

Is that rocket science?

 

PS Geoff - I've just seen your post above. If you're not willing to go into Scotland while flying that flag, maybe it's because you've got a "yellow streak?" :D

[GJH]

747 - 2010-03-24 3:05 PM

 

Hi Graham,

 

You could be right because as far as I can see, the numbers of vans have increased dramatically. This is partly down to the subsidised ferry fares.

 

By discreet wild camping, I mean only setting up in an overnight spot at a late hour in the day. Earlier on in the day, public car parks or similar can be used while enjoying the benefits of your surroundings.

 

If someone was to pull up early in the day, set up an awning and put out a table then a totally different picture is presented.

 

If a number of people did this did this near my house on a regular basis, I am sure I would not be too happy about it.

Appreciate what you're saying. Thing is, one person's late hour might be another's early hour.

 

I don't know how long it stays light in the Hebrides in summer but, as you'll know yourself, it can be 10pm or so before the sun goes down in Tees-side/Tyne-side latitudes so activity by non-residents could be potentially disturbing quite late in the day.

 

As Tony basically says, the onus is on those wanting to stay to ensure, in advance, that it is permitted and will not cause undue disturbance.

 

Graham

[creakyknee]

 

 

Yes of course I’m stingy. Waste not, want not. Make do and mend. I straighten nails, I save string. I grow vegetables and fruit. I think these things are a virtue. I started work as an apprentice at £2.50p a week. I did two years National Service at £2.50p a week.  I value the money I have. I only use campsites if I want to. I have a motorhome that is self-contained, why should I want to go on a campsite all the time!  I only need somewhere to park, water and an emptying point. I don’t mind paying a fair price for that but I don’t want the swimming pool, restaurant, play area etc. or the electricity.

 

    It appears that some people aren’t happy unless I conform to their idea of what’s right for them. I feel under no obligation to give my money to a campsite owner as most motorhomers feel no obligation to give money to hoteliers and bed and breakfast establishments. This is probably the real reason why motorhomes are not so welcome in many tourist areas. The majority of us empty our waste where we should, do not hang washing out and try not to park where we will upset the locals.

 

    Everyone has opinions on how to spend their money. We spend in local shops. We have the odd meal out. We sit and have a coffee, even though it has been pointed out to me that after 30 days, that it has cost about £90. I’m probably not as stingy as I should be!

 

    I think after this election there will be a few more going for a drive, economy drive that is.

 

   

    

 

[silverback]

Hi , i agree with all the comments so far, cos thats what we do, stock up and go, then buy local when we get there, and use the local hostelries,

when we went to the hebrides last year in may, we had no problems with the locals, we toured and saw the sights by day, then parked up and wild camped at night, there are places there, what are totally wild out of the way and not a local for miles, we took our rubbish away with us and you wouldnt know we had been there! one night we spent in a pub carpark had a meal and bevvies so i reckon thats putting some money in, we put money in to the local economy everyday, i dont think thats stingy....

they obviously had a problem with these stingy mh'ers thats there opinion, but they should keep it to themselves and not stir up trouble in the hebs

we went to glen coe for new year, wild camped had no probs, we go up to scotland 5 times a year, the only probs we have with locals is when they have had 2 many sherries and then proceed to slag the english off, i just let it wash over me and leave

they want there independance.. but they want our cash as well from government they cant have it both ways....

jonathan

[lennyhb]

Looks like we are all in agreement makes a change.

 

I spent a large chunk of the life savings on a van & if I stand a chance of replacing it in a few years I'm not going to waste away more savings on expensive camp sites.

Yes we shop, eat & drink locally when away & if we didn't go where ever with our Motorhome that would be a loss to the areas economy.

 

One thing that does get my back up is a lot CL's & CS's have installed mains hook ups & significantly increased their prices they expect you to pay for mains even if you do not need it.

I accept they are trying to recover their costs but it seems to be changing the point of a CL/CS, I was under the impression they were there to give the farmer a bit of pocket money from a bit of spare land rather than a full business venture.

 

When you read touring articles in MM or PC the writers always stay at expensive full facility sites probably as their bosses are paying & it's not coming out of their own pockets. Before anyone shouts yes the latest PC did have an article where they stayed mostly on Aires in France must be a first!

[Basil]

Agree with most of above, thank goodness I will never venture 'North of the Border' (the one that goes across Watford Gap that is). :-D :-D :-D

 

If you take what is happening to it's extreme, they will be stopping you going accross the water and spending your hard earned 'over there' next. It has just reminded us why we dislike camping over here so much.

 

Bas

[Mel B]

I haven't got the mag yet :-( so I'll have to wait and see exactly what is being said but I certainly would NOT let a handful of people put me off going to the islands, no more than I'd let a few people put me off going to France and staying on aires etc due to the risk of being gassed! :-S

[Big Momma]

I am foregoing my trip to Europe this year and instead we ARE heading North and spending 30 days touring Scotland as far up as Dunnet Bay (near to John and his Goats). This will be our 4th tour of Scotland and have never Free Camped, Wild Camped or whatever it is called these days. Not saying that I don't fancy the idea or that I will never do it just havn't as yet.

 

And yes, we do pay the high prices to be on a campsite and yes we do use public transport, shop in local stores, eat in local cafe's/restaraunts, visit tourist attractions, fill up with fuel etc. etc. etc. So we both contribute to the profits of the site or club owners and we contribute to the local economy and we contribute to our own feeling of well being and enjoy our holiday.

 

Am I stingy, well yes actually, how the hell can I afford not to be when I have such an expensive holiday to save up for :D :D :D

[silverback]

Am I stingy, well yes actually, how the hell can I afford not to be when I have such an expensive holiday to save up for

(this is big mommas quote, could'nt figure out how to do the white one)

 

 

 

 

 

Nice one Big momma, you enjoy your hols, watch out for the midges (!) scotland is beautiful :D

jonathan :D :D

[Mel B]

Hey Big Momma ... you do know there are some steep hills in Scotland don't you? 8-) ;-)

[Big Momma]

Yup, but won't have to worry about reversing up any of them as I will have my new vehicle with 3.0Ltr Comformatic gearbox don't you know. And if that wasn't enough I have the OH under strict training for the last 3 months, she can now carry me for over 10 miles without stopping (lol)

[lennyhb]

Basil - 2010-03-24 9:31 PM

 

Agree with most of above, thank goodness I will never venture 'North of the Border' (the one that goes across Watford Gap that is). :-D :-D :-D

 

Bas

 

You mean people actually travel that far north!!

Dorking is my limit. :$ :$ :$

[Tomo3090]

Thanks everyone. Your comments and opinions are very similar to ours, and I suspect here are a lot more too. We have decided we will be going up to The Western Isles to see it for our selves. We'll do what we usually do and see if we met any problems.

 

Not that I think we will.

 

 

[Basil]

lennyhb - 2010-03-25 9:55 AM

You mean people actually travel that far north!!

Dorking is my limit. :$ :$ :$

 

Someone obviously shares my sense of humour warped though it is!

:-D :-D :-D

 

Bas

[GJH]

lennyhb - 2010-03-25 9:55 AM

 

Basil - 2010-03-24 9:31 PM

 

Agree with most of above, thank goodness I will never venture 'North of the Border' (the one that goes across Watford Gap that is). :-D :-D :-D

 

Bas

 

You mean people actually travel that far north!!

Dorking is my limit. :$ :$ :$

Is Dorking enjoyable? This is a serious question cos I've never Dorked so I don't know 8-)

 

Graham

[tazdog6007]

im with you tomo these people choose to live in the back end of nowhere,their house costing 500 quid and living and loving on sheep and fish.then get all snotty when us from the real world dont spend our entire wealth in the crappy local shop or ten pounds a gallon on their fuel given the rubbish weather they should be grateful.

[Rayjsj]

Went to the Outer Hebrides 3 years ago (before Calmac lowered their prices Damn !) absolutely loved the place, very, very beautiful, not many sites anyway, not many shops anyway, and the ones that are there are 'Camouflaged', you nearly always drive past them before you realise it WAS a shop, usually a Co-op. we bought most of our food at Tesco in Oban before we left, but next time we would try the Co-op's, they were a bit more expensive but it's nice to chat to the locals. We found them very friendly, probably more friendly than on the mainland. We parked at the Hostels (for a small charge) near a beach several times, everyone we spoke to was helpful, 3 things we were warned about (in a helpful way) don't block a 'Crofters' view of the sea, and don't use the Bins at the side of the 'main' roads for your rubbish (they ALL belong to somone, and it annoys folk when 'Holiday makers' fill their bins without asking....wouldn't it annoy you ?) and remember people WORK there, always pull over and let them pass (from behind and coming toward you) you are on holiday and can afford the time. The things that annoy them most are our 'Bad Manners' which we bring with us from the mainland. But do Go ! it's a lovely place. Going to Mull again this year. Ray

[lennyhb]

GJH - 2010-03-25 10:48 AM

 

lennyhb - 2010-03-25 9:55 AM

 

Basil - 2010-03-24 9:31 PM

 

Agree with most of above, thank goodness I will never venture 'North of the Border' (the one that goes across Watford Gap that is). :-D :-D :-D

 

Bas

 

You mean people actually travel that far north!!

Dorking is my limit. :$ :$ :$

Is Dorking enjoyable? This is a serious question cos I've never Dorked so I don't know 8-)

 

Graham

 

Probably safer than swiming in the Tees. (lol) (lol)

[Usinmyknaus]

No........... but inate Northern Thrift obliges me to be "careful" but, when I've been retired 20 years, I expect the effect of grasping governments will most certainly have made me "stingy".

 

Until then, I won't buy rubbish from a local shop just to be charitable but while I can still afford it, I like to buy interesting, locally produced foods even if they are a wee bit dearer. (If in France and the commune has provided free or cheap overnight accommodation for me, I make a point of stocking up at any local shop with good food/wine, frequent the cafe etc and I tell them in French how much I appreciate their hospitality. That's my choice, I don't expect anyone else do likewise)

 

Like Lennyb, I too despair at the gentrification of CLs and CS's and especially mandatory payment for hook-ups. I just want a patch of firm ground, a potable water tap and cess-pit orifice thanks very much. A nice viewwould be a bonus. Since I first used CL's back in the early 80's I feel the essence of CL-dom has largely been lost.

 

I avoid big sites like the plague, 'cos I want to get away from the crowd, not muck in with them cheek by jowl and I absolutely do not want or need 5 star "facilities". I do my own cooking and I don't want on-site restaurants, take-aways etc either.

 

I would love to tour the Outer Hebrides and I dream of safe, wild camping

and sweeping vistas - hopefully, not angry locals with claymores and blood lust by the time I get there.

 

Talking to a chap on a site this week who toured the islands last Autumn, evreywhere was generally OK, just the odd niggle, except Harris where he said he ran the gauntlet of some very nasty locals. His worst experience was bizarrely, in a business. As he walked in the door the shopkeeper shouted at him "And where are you going to empty your toilet? Not before you get to Stornaway." The conversation coninued in similar vein so he left the shop, and the island, as soon as he could. He was still glad he had been to see the scenery and urged me to not be put off by his experience, just mindful of it.

 

Interesting that natives of some provinces of this kingdom appear content for the English taxpayer to hugely, and I do mean hugely, subsidise every man, woman and child (their pets too for that matter) courtesy of the "Barnett Formula" yet seem to tolerate discrimination against us when we call in to visit.

 

Bob

 

 

[GJH]

lennyhb - 2010-03-25 12:47 PM

 

Probably safer than swiming in the Tees. (lol) (lol)

 

Everything is safer than swimming in the Tees, Lenny (lol) (lol)