Help needed please

[Shell181]

Hi Everyone

 

Myself and my hubby, after a few years of talking about it have decided to buy a motorhome :)

 

We have been to a couple of dealers and had a look at different models and are trying to find the design that will suit us best. I wandered if any of you could help please because there are sooo many models and makes lol.

 

These are our requirements:-

 

We will be buying a used one, probably 4/5 birth. We would like a fixed double bed-the ones which have the storage compartment underneath, (garage?), a proper shower with a door, hubby would like a table for sitting and eating and I would like a long settee to be able to lie down (maybe a removable table would give us the best of both worlds?). We do not have any preference as to whether it is an end lounge or bathroom etc etc because we can't think of any advantages or disadvantages as this is all new to us-maybe you could educate us on your experiences?

 

We are in our forties and I am 5'11 so hopefully a bed long enough lol, we would be using the motorhome for the uk and Europe.

 

If you think you own the ideal motorhome that would suit us please could you let us know so we can make a short list as it would be really nice to narrow it down. We would really appreciate any help that is given.

 

Thanks

Shell

 

[colin]

My advise to any complete novice is rent one first, a good way to do this IMO is to have a holiday in NZ, Aus, or North America. It won't answer all your queries but will give you an idea of what works or doesn't for you.

If your not feeling that adventerous then you can rent in UK.

[flicka]

Hello Shell & welcome to the forum.

Buying your first van can be a confusing experience, with such a variation of makes & model available.

Despite any replies extoling the virtues of a particular Motorhome, everyone's needs & preferences are different.

The best route is to try & see as many Vans, "in the flesh" then decide what style / type of layout appears to best suit your requirements. At that point you can prepare a check list. "Definately want, Would like, Don't want, etc.." & a list of potential Vans. Then hire a Van of the style you think you want to make sure it suits.

It main thing is to treat the purchase similarly to buying a house, "take your time, go back for a second look & don't be rushed into buying by over zealous saleman"

Few points to consider that are often overlooked are.

Payload = difference between Van's maximum weight (MAM) and Unladen Weight. Remember each passenger & their gear needs to be accomodated.

4 people only = c300/350kg.

Length - where will you keep your Van. Can your drive accomodate it.

Licence - Does your licence restrict you to 3500 Kg Vehicle Weight.

 

The best place to see as many Vans as possible, are the various Motorhome Shows.

The National Show is at Peterborough, 23rd, 24th & 25th April 2010, see:-

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/exhibitions/exhibition.asp?exhib=3

Don't know your location, but if Peterborough is not

suitable Newbury follows in May - see the "Shows" button at very top of this forum page.

Good luck searching, it can be a little daunting with the wide scope of layouts, manufacturers, base vehicles, etc..but create a blank spreadsheet of needs, etc., fill one in for each Van, in that style, take photo's if possible, then cross refer them back home. Enjoy it

[Shell181]

Hi

 

Thanks for the replies so far, forgot to say we cannot have one bigger than 3500 kg as hubby is a diabetic so thats one decision made lol, we don't really want to go any older than year 2000 and don't really want to spend any more than £25,000

 

Shell

 

[atlantisbird]

Hello Shell welcome to the forum,

We have been looking for some time now and one of the places we go to look so that we can decide is any show or exhibition both national UK and we have also been to Dusseldorf Messe at the end of August beginning of September. There are many open air shows listed in MMM magazine and we read this regularly. We also go a few times a year to Brownhills A1 Newark, Loudhams Nottingham and others where you can look at all the motorhomes and more important for us you can get into all their stock and have a good look so that you get a better idea of what is available and a good idea of the prices you want to pay.

We were due to get a motorhome two years ago but a hip operation delayed our purchase until this year when we are ready to take the plunge.

We did hire in New Zealand for 34 days in South Island and it was amazing and it confirmed our desire to get a motorhome. This year we intend to buy one and spend 6 month as a first time in Europe .

Hope this helps.

Kindest regards

Atlantisbird

[Shell181]

Hi Atlantisbird

 

Thanks for that, we went to Brownhills last weekend and I think we went in every motorhome lol. We just missed the Newark show and hubby going away soon and we will miss a few others in our area - typical eh lol.

 

Good luck with your search :-D

 

Shell

[The Decorator]

For straight answers go to an event such as steam engine rallies where there will be many types. Go knock on their doors and ask questions, we are friendly types with years of experience.

 

Dealers will tell you all the decorative points, users will tell the truth !!

 

[malc d]

Best place to browse around motorhomes is at a motorhome show. Don't know where you live but the Peterborough show is coming up on 23 rd April. Well worth a visit. Other shows will be advertised in MMM mag.

 

You can often have a chat with owners at the shows. More likely to be unbiased than talking to dealers.

 

Good luck with the search.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Shell181 - 2010-04-11 8:34 PM Hi Thanks for the replies so far, forgot to say we cannot have one bigger than 3500 kg as hubby is a diabetic so thats one decision made lol, we don't really want to go any older than year 2000 and don't really want to spend any more than £25,000 Shell

Two things.  First go here, and buy this book.  It is presently out of print, but a new edition is due in June.  In the meantime, if you ask, someone on here may have a copy they are prepared to sell.  http://tinyurl.com/yj9hucq

Buy nothing before you get, and read, the book.  It will answer all your questions, and a few you haven't yet thought up, and may save you thousands of pounds.  I have no connection the publisher, but have a copy and consider it an excellent source of information.

Second point.  The specification you have outlined is for a van of at least 7.0 metres in length.  To have a viable payload (about 6/700Kg for two people for extended trips in Europe), you will need a van with a MAM of 3,850 - 4,000Kg.  Either you will have to do all the driving, or you will both have to scale back your specification.  Quarts into pint pots do not go! :-)

This will also fit much better with your ambition to get a (presumably good) van under 10 years old for about £25K.  I think you will be looking at something around 6 - 6.5 metres long max to stay workably within 3,500Kg.  Be wary of vans with a long overhang behind the rear wheels, they rapidly overload their rear axle, and so run out of usable payload with relatively little on board.

Make sure that you know exactly how the payload of any van is calculated.  Do not rely on what dealers tell you, they are extremely unlikely to know the working payload of any second hand van.  The van must be weighed at a weighbridge to establish its actual weight.  Pay special attention to the load on each axle, most vans run out of capacity on one, or other, of the axles long before they hit their MAM.  Its contents at the time must be noted.  Remember that water weighs one Kg per litre, so a 100 litre fresh water tank will weigh 100Kg when full.  A 13Kg gas cylinder weighs about 25Kg when full.  Diesel fuel weighs about 0.85Kg per litre. 

The payload is calculated by deducting the actual weight of the unladen van (in this case "unladen" means with spare wheel and any tools, all fixed accessories, full tank of water, full tank of fuel, and full gas cylinders, plus the driver, all present), from its MAM.  As above, you will need around 600Kg or better for the passenger, clothing, food, drinks, cooking utensils, crockery, cutlery, washing materials, bikes or whatever, and your camping clutter, plus a margin for anything you may buy as you travel.

However, you will not have free choice, and trying to draw up anything more than outline ideas will be liable to frustrate.  What you will be able to get will be what is for sale, and the older the van, the more likely you will be to find things that put you off.  I would suggest you concentrate on the makes that have the best reputation for quality, then look for the most popular models within those makes.  These may not match your requirements, but because there will be several for sale at any one time within the same price bracket, you will be able to pick and choose, albeit at the expense of a lot of miles travelled!

Motorhomes are small volume vehicles.  All the makers have extensive model ranges, but they build to order, so if a particular model doesn't catch on, only a handful are ever built.  If you happen to choose one of those layouts, your search will be of needle and haystack proportions.

All owners will tell you their make/model is the best ever produced - until just before they sell it!  Assertions that this or that van is ideal are, therefore, largely useless as advice or guidance.  There is a huge market of used vans, and all you can do is your own research, and your own searching.  However, get that book first, and good luck!

[dikyenfo]

We had the same requirements as you and ended up with entirely different spec. to that which we started with. We bought new for less than 25000 by negeotiating hard and counting pound notes out on the table until thr deal was done and everytime that things got sticky ask for extras and cover up the base price with a few more pounds on the table.

If you stand up and look as tho.you are leaving it is hard for salesmen to watch their performance figure for the month dropping.

Also with a smaller van 4/5 berth no garage with single and double beds easily made up and a double over the cab and no huge fridge or oven there is 900 Kg load permit on the MH.

Of course we all want the extras so I tow a nice looking trailer[bv64e] from Ivor and this carries all the more bulky things as we go for extended trips to France in particular and therefore are equipped to cook and eat outside. We have a lightweight tent of 3M sq. and in it we put the bbq extra fridge table chairs kithche with cooker and oven [electric] and then use the 5.9M MH as a car because it fits anywhere that a car will and gives us the freedom of movement that we like.

Also we have a French gas bottle for the tent so we can if not on an expensive site run the fridge and cooker and bbq[Cadac] on gas without worrying about replacement.

Fully loaded up for a 3 month trip at the w/e we weigh in at 3280 Kg so well legal for the van but as many carry all the stuff I put in the trailer I wonder some can run at all!

[Shell181]

Oh my goodness, there is a lot more to think about than we thought, especially the pay load that worries me a bit tbh. We have decided on a couple of things anyway - deffo do not want an overcab bed (thats me) and hubby doesn't want to make up beds (this would be my choice so more room in van) so the only compromise are the fixed beds I suppose unless I can persuade him lol.

 

Just from reading forums the older Hymers seem to be very solid, reliable and well made etc etc and have a good name and I am steering towards them so am now thinking maybe we should not think about setting our goal on getting year 2000 or above. Maybe we should buy an older one and take it somewhere to someone who can do it up a bit inside?

 

We are going to a couple more dealers this weekend to look round more but I just wandered if anyone knew of a fixed bed one that has a seperate shower and has the bench seats with a table that can be put up or taken down and used outside (thought this was a good idea as don't have to take an extra table for outside then)

 

Also I did see one that had storage in the overcab bit rather than a bed but can't remember which one it was (have looked at that many lol)

 

Any ideas please? We really appreciate all the help and time you have taken to reply and thankyou once again.

 

[Brian Kirby]

Shell181 - 2010-04-12 12:21 PM Oh my goodness, there is a lot more to think about than we thought ...................with a table that can be put up or taken down and used outside (thought this was a good idea as don't have to take an extra table for outside then) ...............

Yes, it is all a bit daunting at first.  Just take the time, and you'll get there OK in the end.  :-)

Re the table, I'm not convinced.  The ground outside is not generally level, and tables for use in vans tend not to have individually adjustable legs, so the chances of your van table being stable and level when used outside, will be slim.  A lightweight camping table, with fully adjustable legs will, generally, prove far more satisfactory.

[Brian Kirby]

Shell181 - 2010-04-12 12:21 PM .......... We are going to a couple more dealers this weekend to look round more but I just wandered if anyone knew of a fixed bed one that has a seperate shower and has the bench seats with a table that can be put up or taken down and used outside (thought this was a good idea as don't have to take an extra table for outside then) ...........

You may find something along these lines satisfactory.  Should have adequate payload and has a separate shower, though "compact"!  Burstner t585.  Was in production approx 2004-6.  Later models sold as Burstner Solano t585.  Older versions should be at about your price bracket.

[WANDALUST]

Hi Shell

I'm 6'2 so bed size was a major consideration when choosing our motor home. We eventually bought an Autotrail Chieftain which has a cross van rear bed with a low level garage under. (You can hop in and out of bed

without having to climb a ladder or steps...we previously had a Swift Sundance and slept over the cab...not a good idea (in my opinion) unless you are fond of mid night acrobatics accompanied by some bad language). I think the Autotrail bed is circa 6' 10" x 4 ' 6...absolute bliss although I still have to climb over my longsuffering and good natured wife for the middle night trip to the loo.

The Chieftain we have also has lovely long lounge settees (ideal for lying out on)...these make into another enormous double bed circa 6' x 6'6.

For reasons as mentioned previously we chose to have cupboards over the cab...not another bed...there are Chieftains available with this option.

It also has a shower with closable door...separate to the toilet. The table folds down and stores neatly away.

We bought new (this time) as we are nearing retirement...if you don't want to buy new there are plenty of good secondhand Autotrails about which will meet your needs. A look on the AUTOTRAIL Website will show you different layouts, models,sizes etc.

 

Kind regards and Happy Motorhoming

 

Alan

 

 

[WANDALUST]

Hi Shell just picked up your message re size...Autotrail Chieftains exceed 3500 so my type Motorhome would not be suitable for you needs.

 

Alan

[Shell181]

Thanks Brian, will have a look at that one, thanks Alan I haven't looked at a pic or anything but it was all going so well and sounded ideal until I finished the message and then read the one underneath lol, oh well will keep looking lol

[RubyExsis]

Take your time, don't rush into a purchase or what seems a good deal- there will ALWAYS be another. It is confusing at first because you don't know at that point what you want, but it is very enjoyable because you are going to buy something you really want to enjoy what you want to do - don't let it feel daunting. Slowly work out all the pros and cons for your lifestyle and how you will use the van by sitting for a long time in loads of vans - yes even at shows, but you do get more time and privacy at dealers.

We have a Hymer Exsis which is short and high, but narrow so can travel and park almost anywhere - that was our choice, it was right for us 3 years ago and still is now. Know what you want to use it for and choose accordingly - there almost always has to be a compromise.

[flicka]

Hi Shell

This will give you an idea of what is available under 3500kg:- http://www.lowdhams.com/used-motorhomes/details/properties/uniquecode-37356.3

Seating for 4 but only 3 berths, but has garage under rear transverse bed. Low profile (not the bulky overcab) & under 6m long.

I think this was a "budget" van when new, but in your price range & 2003 build.

Scroll down the page for the technical information.

Remember the 3 passengers eats into the available payload.

Have a look here also:-

http://www.symc.co.uk/motorhome_details.php?mhId=EBA150D30C5B564D80257631005BB2C8

 

For a 5 berth on a 3500kg van, I am reasonably sure you would have to look for an overcab bed.

[Shell181]

Thanks Ruby, and thanks Flicka I will have a look at that one

 

Shell

 

[colin]

Having read your requirements I'm going to offer up an example of layout that you might consider and point out (hopefully) it's good and bad points, note the only reason I'm using this example is because we hired a simerler model (but overcab) just before easter.

 

This has fixed rearbed, dinette that makes up to double, toilet with sepperate shower, ford based.

The front dinette has plenty of room for two, but is supposed to be four seater, yes you could seat four but it would be a squeeze. Makes up to a 6'x4'(? ) bed, which is narrow.

The fixed bed is 6'9"x4'2", plenty long enough(although note cut away) but once again narrow, you can use this for lounging in (gf did), the bed can only be used one way round, ok for level pitchs might be compromise if you go to uneven sites, the person in corner of bed will have to clamber over partner to get out of bed, gf hates this as triggers her claustrophobia. The bed is a bit of an hop up for us short uns.

Washroom has plenty of room with sepperate shower, we didn't use shower as used site facilties, but I don't think you would have any complaints about it.

Galley is small, for us this wasn't any problem, but with only two rings and a nuke the gourmets may be disapointed, also the nuke was a bit high, realy needed a step to locate turntable or clean.

The door is on offside, I personaly don't like this as it opens into traffic in UK and it's very difficult to see whats coming up road. Roof vents (like many) only open one way, I don't like this as they have to be shut if wind and rain is coming from rear of vehicle.

Many will like the layout, for us it was ok but not one I'd buy.

[Basil]

Shell181 - 2010-04-12 12:21 PM

 

Oh my goodness, there is a lot more to think about than we thought, especially the pay load that worries me a bit tbh. We have decided on a couple of things anyway - deffo do not want an overcab bed (thats me) and hubby doesn't want to make up beds (this would be my choice so more room in van) so the only compromise are the fixed beds I suppose unless I can persuade him lol.

 

 

It may be worth looking at the Chauson Welcome Suite (I believe that is correct) for a way round your bed problem.

Had a look inside one last week (it was new though so a little outside your budget at £31999) and found it quite novel. The bed stays made up like a fixed bed but electronically raises up into the roof of the motorhome.

It allows a much smaller in length van to have the same as a fixed bed without compromising the living area, probably not to everyones taste but certainly food for thought.

 

Bas

[Shell181]

Thanks Colin and Bas, will have a look at the ones you mentioned

 

Shell

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