Water ingress or leak?

[Guest Tracker]

alf - 2010-09-15 8:33 PM

 

Tracker

Where did the OP say leak only occurd when on the move only

 

he said and I quote " We did not use the Motorhome for sleeping for the first 2 nights as we were at a house. We were reverse parked on a drive nose down, from Friday evening to Sunday afternoon during which time there was quite a considerable rainfall. " it was after this before moving it he found the wet cushions.

 

This leads me to think of a window leak more than likely fron a newish van on its first trip away.

He also reports all other areas dry when tested with a damp meter.

When the OP sorts it I hope he reports back

 

Alf

 

Also cut from the OP? Which is why clarification is needed?

 

 

Later the same week when it rained we checked and found the same area to be dry. But when we came home, after some more rain we had arranged to have some rear cushion covers made, when we took them out it was wet again from the back for a distance of 28 inches along the nearside and again the underside of the cushions were wet.

[davoscar]

If its like a Starfire it certainly is in the middle of the floor under a hatch.  The filling system was an idiosyncrasy of Autocruise using the 'Crystal' system with a pressure reducer on the hose which fits to the side with little fiddly plastic clips - once you get used to it it works well and has the added advantage of being able to be filled from a container (if you are closet 'tugger') for which they also supplied a submersible pump.

If its from the tank it must be a split hose? but even this seems doubtful as any water down there should probably drain on to the road easily.

Just about to change my Van with its unique filling system for a Hobby so I can now join Brians Club with the usual 'petrol filler style' he describes.....

David

[Brian Kirby]

Further thoughts.  Are the locker frame, and the two filler/connection points themselves properly sealed to the external wall of the van?

Re Swift's response, ignore this!  It is the dealer who is wholly legally liable for defects, whether or not the manufacturer honours the warranty. 

If there was a water ingress warranty when the van was first sold, this could be argued to indicate the extent to which the van should normally be expected to remain watertight without further intervention, subject to annual (or as specified) checking.  Just keep taking the van back to the dealer who sold it to you, and get the specified checks carried out.  If he refuses to do this, on the basis the warranty is invalid, he should have advised you accordingly at the time of sale, so the basis on which you bought is suspect.  If he continues to take your money, and to do the checks, then he seems to me to be accepting responsibility for honouring the terms of the warranty himself.  He may later reject this argument, but I think it would stand a fair chance in court, if ever things got to that point.  If push really turns to shove, talk to Trading Standards, but otherwise, unless and until the dealer refuses to co-operate further, simply present the problem to him and ask him to sort it out.  It is his responsibility.

[Barbarian]

Hello Folks and thank you all again for your input.

I am going to try to cover all the points raised since my last posting. First, there is no change, we have had heavy rain but no new wet inside, we have not been able to try driving in the rain yet.

If you follow the link from Mel B to the starspirit it is the same model as ours. (Thank you Mel this is a big help) Looking along the nearside there are 2 lockers in view, ignoring the first high one, the wet area is inside above the rear, low oblong shaped locker which is an access to the rear under seat storage area. Opening this locker from the outside the wood above it is dry on the underside but wet on the top.

The water tank is forward of this same locker and is unusual in that it is an upside down L shape. The top of the tank is above floor level, the 'stick' of the L drops down below floor level into a plastic tub, for want of a better word. The filler top cap is accessed by raising the seat slats, there is no floor hatch for the tank. All the area under the seating and around the tank is completely dry and has no old signs of wet. Believe it or not the external filler for the water tank is on the opposite side of the van! The wet area comes 28" from the back forwards, then stops before the water tank, discounting the overflow.

We were parked nose down on a drive for the two days but we did not find the wet until we arrived at the CL and needed to put the water in, this was about 15 miles from the house in fine weather. However when we drove to the house and parked up it had been raining heavily on the journey down which was 180 miles, so it could have been wet before we parked up and we did not know! Sorry for adding that now but it has only just occurred to us.

The gas locker is located on the offside, opposite to the wet area so that discounts the drop vent.

Thank you for the suggestion that the black water spots could be old condensation marks, that makes good sense and helps us to concentrate on the main problem.

I hope I have explained the queries raised and of course we will keep you all informed of progress and the eventual resolution.

Thank you all again we are very grateful,

Regards, barbarian

[Mel B]

Ah ha, I see - out of curiosity, what's the locker on the nearside above the wheel then? Is it for the battery/charger?

 

Looking along the nearside there are 2 lockers in view, ignoring the first high one, the wet area is inside above the rear, low oblong shaped locker which is an access to the rear under seat storage area. Opening this locker from the outside the wood above it is dry on the underside but wet on the top.

 

So it may well be that the water is getting in round the seal somehow. The only other place I can think of is from around the top of the large rear moulding/side or bottom of the corner moulding - as these cover up the corner joint, if there's a gap in the seals, it could allow water to penetrate through to the interior.

[Mel B]

Just a thought, if I could see the van, I might be able to spot the problem - where in ERoY are you? I'm in Cottingham ... :-D

[Brambles]

My suggestion is going to be the window seal and water collects in teh blinds cassette moulding at bottom. When you drive or van slopes it then runs out dripping down the wall onto the wood. Water trickles down the wall finish may bead and fall or dry very quickly on wall.

Suspect parts of the window seal would be where the two ends of the

rubber seal meet.

Just my pennies worth you can have for a farthing.

Jon.

[tonyg3nwl]

Hi, I have just read through the saga and suggested solutions/possible reasons.

 

I currently own a Stargazer, and have previously owned a Starfire, but never your particular type.

 

However, I wonder is if possible that the wet is penetration through the nearside rear locker which gives access under the bunks. These locker doors are not guaranteed to be waterproof, and in my case the alleged seal is obviously a possible suspect entry point. Fortunately, I havent yet found any leakage problem on either van, but my next service is due at end of month.

 

I wonder if a new rubber seal might be worth considering, even if the original doesnt appear to be at fault.

 

The alternative entry point could be where mudguard/Wheel arch/floor joint is sealed letting road spray penetrate. Empty the locker and thoroughly examine the joint and reseal it as a possible offender.

 

Hope you find the problem soon.

 

tonyg3nwl

[Barbarian]

Hello again, Sorry for the break in my messages but on Friday we decided go away in the van for the weekend, we have just got back this evening.

'EUREKA' (we hope)

It started to rain during Saturday night, this morning we checked and all was dry! So we went for a drive in the rain, I was driving when a voice from the back shouted " I've found it "

The rain was coming in the rear window (Not the side one) from the top nearside corner, but only evident when the vehicle is in motion(?) The water was coming in quite fast, running down the inside of the window then travelling along with the roll of the van, and down the wall behind the cushions. This will also explain the old marks along the back, it just depends on the van position when the water comes in, but suggests it has been like this for a while!

We are presuming the wet we saw originally on the nearside was due to the roll or position of the van, the nearside window appears OK. (So far)

We have, ANOTHER leak found over the weekend, the window in the caravan door is letting rain in somewhere around the top of the seal, but at least we know the source and can rectify that. I am reasonably good at DIY, can you tell me if these are DIY jobs or need a professional?

Mel B, thank you very much for your offer of viewing our van, hopefully we have it pinpointed. The other small door you see on the nearside is a storage locker, the hook-up, levelling blocks, warning triangles, etc. fit in it.

We are optimistic that the window is the only entry point and can resolve it quickly, to be fair to him the guy we bought it from has been very good, so we hope he continues to be.

We had to take a very well known dealer to the small claims court in 2006, (Vehicle not fit for purpose Sale of Goods Act, replaced gear box) and won, but we do not want to take that route again.

A very BIG THANK YOU to you all for your help, we are very grateful that you took the time to reply, we will keep you updated on progress.

Best wishes and safe travelling to you all, Ian.

 

 

 

[Brambles]

Well done and glad you have found it. Water leaks can be the most annoying of things to find.

[Mike P]

Hi Barbarian,

just a thought that might prompt further investigation. We had an AT Cheyenne 634U a few years ago and had a leak from what we thought was the rear window. After a fair bit of scratching around we found that the actual leak was round the high level brake light, the water then running down the inside of the skin and some exiting from the rear window surround. I finished up removing the window surround(after first re-sealing the brake light) and leaving a dehumidifier running inside sfor a couple of weeks.

Mike P

[Barbarian]

Hi again, we have been to our local Motorhome / Caravan spares and parts place today (O'Learys) and been given the number for a very competent and local Motorhome repairer, I will call him tomorrow and mention the high brake light as a possibility, Thank you.

[Guest JudgeMental]

JudgeMental - 2010-09-03 11:41 PM

sorry cant help as I dont know the van..but normally the water can come from the failure of a seal around a window or a roof light? and can run down till it finds a gap.

 

quote from your first reply?

 

It nearly always is this and it is an easy fix....

[Mel B]

Barbarian - 2010-09-22 5:49 PM

 

Hi again, we have been to our local Motorhome / Caravan spares and parts place today (O'Learys) and been given the number for a very competent and local Motorhome repairer, I will call him tomorrow and mention the high brake light as a possibility, Thank you.

 

Is that the chap down the road from them? If so, we used to get our damp checks done there until he stopped doing them; he used to work at Swift many moons ago and could really tell some horror stories!

 

We had FM caravans do repairs on our Rimor when it got 'abused' in Holland in 2008 and a marvelous job they did too.

 

http://www.fmcaravans.co.uk/

[Barbarian]

Hello, Yes Mel, it is the chap down the road from O'Learys, phoned him at 1.30pm today and left a message but he has not called back as yet, it's now 9.00pm. Can you please tell me where FM are? I've not heard of them before, thanks.

I checked the inside route between the high brake light and the high exterior lights with a damp meter and it gave no reading. Also inspected the whole back end from steps from the outside, nothing was obvious.

We may be going away for the weekend, depends on what the weather is doing tomorrow! Thank you all. Barbarian

[Guest JudgeMental]

2 hours tops + materials(adhesives)

[Barbarian]

Hi Judgemental, you were correct from the start! We feel much better after your last comment re. repair time etc. Thank you for your assistance

Barbarian

[Mel B]

FM Caravans Ltd

169 Fountain Road

Hull

HU2 0LH

Tel: (01482) 823330

 

http://www.fmcaravans.co.uk/contact_us.phtml

[Mel B]

FM Caravans Ltd

169 Fountain Road

Hull

HU2 0LH

Tel: (01482) 823330

 

http://www.fmcaravans.co.uk/contact_us.phtml

[Barbarian]

Hi Mel, Thank you very much for the info. I will contact FM on Monday. The guy that O'Learys recommended has still not returned my call.

Regards, Ian

[Barbarian]

Hello all, Having looked at FM Caravans website we found that they are open 7 days, I contacted them on Saturday, (Thanks again Mel B) very helpful, fitted me in for an inspection the same day. Steve had a look and said 'in his opinion' the seal on the inside of the rear window was weak, too small for the job and didn't seem tight enough when the window was locked down.

True to his word he rang me at 9.30 Monday morning having been in touch with a contact in the trade. Apparently a weak seal on the rear window on this model was known to the manufacturer, if the owner found it within the warranty time it was repaired under warranty but not as a recall!

Anyway, he is sourcing the seal and can sort it for us, HOORAY!!!

We will let you know when it is done.........and if it worked. Thank you all again.

Regards - Ian

[Mel B]

That's great news, you can be sure he'll do a good job for you and you can enjoy your van without soggy patches (... just don't drink too much wine before bed! :$ ).

[Barbarian]

Hello all, just to keep you updated. I rang FM Caravans yesterday and was told they are still waiting for a part number for the window seal. I don't know why it is taking so long but I am in their hands and patiently waiting. The good news is that although we are having some really heavy rain at the moment but it is not coming in, the van is dry.

I will let you all know how we progress.

 

Ian

 

[flicka]

Hi Ian

Hope you get sorted soon, but knowing what the problem is means you are almost there.

one point, your Autocruise could be around the time Autocruise went into liquidation and Swift's bought the company from the receiver, how have not been helpful with problems associated with the original company's products. So you may find it difficult to identify the actual part No. if going that route.

If the Seal was a known fault, it may be wise to use something like the

Fiamma Drip Stop above the window to divert water away.

http://www.agentfiamma.co.uk/erol.html#6970X0

[Barbarian]

Hi Flicka, Thank you for that info. and link, sorry for not replying sooner but this week has caught me up and overtaken, this retirement life is very busy, I don't know how I fitted work in before! It's almost 2 weeks since the problem was identified, will contact FM Caravans again next week.

Going away in the MH for the weekend but undecided where to yet just to get away, might try Whitby we like it and the write up in the latest MMM mentions a parking area that we haven't tried.

Regards - Ian