laptop versus netbook

[BGD]

Can I make a pitch for OpenOffice.org as a FREE alternative to Microsoft Office.

 

Does everything and more that MS office does, but for free; and is open-source software, so is updated regularly by good people.

Also takes up miles less space than the MS Office, and seems to me (subjective opinion only) a lot faster too.

Can be used on any PC, including netbooks, and is a free download.

[Brian Kirby]

But be aware, for example, that programmes like Autoroute won't run under Linux or, I think, Ubuntu.  Don't know about Money, but would doubt it.  They may want Photoshop Elements, or similar for pictures.  They may also need to install camera specific software, such as Nikon Transfer.

The OPs said they were not technically proficient with computers: if they were, I doubt they would have posted their query.  I don't mean this to be taken as a declaration of competence or incompetence on my part, but I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to set up a VPN, so I suspect those who count themselves among the less proficient might struggle just a bit.

For all that it may have failings, Norton 360 (or its McAfee equivalent) is highly automated, is relatively simple to install, and combines anti-virus with a reasonable firewall plus pop-up blocker etc, and even a back up facility.  Windows 7 comes pre-installed on most consumer laptops, so is the easy default option.  Internet Explorer 8 is the most likely version to be supplied, and works well enough.  Windows Defender was integral with Vista, so I assume will be with 7, so shouldn't need downloading.

My suggestion was not to bank from home, but to automate their actual home banking by putting everything feasible onto monthly payments via direct debit, and then to run a model of their accounts on their laptop while away to monitor how their expenditure is affecting their balance.  Sorry if that was unclear.

That way, no revealing details are kept on their laptop, so if it is stolen, the thief gets nothing, and they don't need to use any kind of connection for internet banking, so no chance for eavesdropping or error.  Ultimately, if disaster strikes, most banks offer a telephone service!  Not technology as we know it Jim, but it works!  :-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

so it looks like a choice (netbook wise) between acer aspire one and samsung NC10...which is best amd more portable please? :-D

[RogerGW]

Brian Kirby - 2010-11-23 11:47 PM

But be aware, for example, that programmes like Autoroute won't run under Linux or, I think, Ubuntu...

I made suggestions of alternative and free approaches to your 'everything Microsoft (and Norton)' approach so that people can make up their own minds and perhaps save some money.None of the programs I mentioned is complicated to install or use but, even then, I did say that if it went over the OP's head to just go for what you originally recommended. Also, other people might benefit, which is why we say things in open forum rather than by email.To specifics:1. Microsoft Windows 7 Starter is the version that comes bundled with MS-based netbooks. It is cut down in price, size and capabilities compared to the versions on laptop or desktop PCs. For instance, it won't let you have two monitors going at once, which might scotch the OP's TV-watching wants, won't play back DVDs without downloading some extra software that doesn't always work and doesn't come with Windows Media Center for watching recorded TV and similar. (People mostly use free substitutes for the last, such as VLC Media Player.)To get all these things, the user must pay for and install an upgrade to Windows 7 Home Premium (£60 or more) or buy a laptop. I like Windows 7 and use it all the time but I'm running a more powerful machine than the OP envisages.2. A Linux machine will run any Windows software, from Microsoft or anybody else using (free) software called WINE or a variant of it called Crossover. I don't recall the OP asking for Autoroute (£40 or more) but that's possible under Linux or he could use an alternative. Here's a helpful list -- http://tinyurl.com/3hblj . Also, here are some thoughts on running Windows software under Linux -- http://tinyurl.com/2x46s8 . (BTW, Ubuntu is a kind of Linux.)3. "I wouldn't have the faintest idea how to set up a VPN". You don't need to and neither would the OP. Download Hamachi (3.2 Mb), install it (just follow the prompts), give your network a name, then forget it's there. It's like installing any small, consumer-grade application software.4. "For all that it may have failings, Norton 360…" The OP reported difficulties with Norton, so I'm not sure why he'd want another version of it. Of the paid-for alternatives, NOD ESET and Kaspersky both perform better than McAfee, which has gone off the boil recently. They both have all the features you mention for Norton. There is also the free Microsoft Security Essentials - not as many features but does a good job (see http://tinyurl.com/kwsxcu ).5. "Internet Explorer 8… works well enough". Indeed but slowly, as I said. If one is using a netbook or a low-spec laptop, speed becomes important. IE is still the main target for hackers and has fewer add-ins available than Firefox to increase its security.6. "Windows Defender… I assume will be with 7, so shouldn't need downloading." Correct but I'm not sure it would be with Windows 7 Starter. Microsoft is coy about this version's features.7. "My suggestion was not to bank from home, but to automate their actual home banking by putting everything feasible onto monthly payments via direct debit" -- which they would do from home, surely? And what about the infeasible stuff? (BTW, Microsoft Money was discontinued in June last year.)I think people get the picture. I won't flog this expired equine any further. 8=)Roger

[lennyhb]

I think this thread needs bringing back on track Brian asked for advice on the merits of Laptop verses Netbook & judging the request I would say he is not that techical.

The thread has gone off rambling about the virtues of different programs & operating systems not the information that was asked for.

 

However I will say my twopence on a couple of points raised:

 

A VPN is what it says it is a Virtual PRIVATE Network which enables to connect through a secure tunnel to your home or office computer network, no way would a bank let anyone connect to their network as suggested.

 

As for Linux I would steer clear of it unless you only want basic functions, I have installed Linux (Ubuntu for netbooks) as a dual book on my netbook it is great for browsing logs onto wireless networks in a tenth of the time Windows takes & comes with Open Office as part of the install, also you can read most of yor files on the windows partition.

However directly you want to do any system configuration or even simple tasks like installing programs you often have to do it via the command line and the syntax can be more challenging than DOS.

 

 

[Hughmer]

Ever since Samsung introduced the NC10, it has consistently been pick of the pops in review after review but Samsung have stopped making it now. You can still get 2nd hand and "resold/repaired" versions.

 

We bought the replacement N220 for the last trip and are very pleased with it. Overall size 10.5" x 7.5". Battery life 5-6 hours. Cost £300 ish from PCworld/Dixons incl a (separate) DVD writer

 

It comes with Windows 7 (starter) which does everything I want, - incl company and personal accounts, web browsing and so on. I download pix from our little canon and can view them quite happpily. I run photoshop 5 and paintshop pro on it so there's no apparent shortage for processor power or memory.

 

I loaded openoffice.org and the spreadsheet and wp functions looks just about as much like ms office as you could imagine. BUT it defaults to saving files in its' own format and I like to save the .doc and xls formats. Generally this presents no problem but when converting back, - little glitches occur such as £ signs disappearing , - so openoffice as a replacement for MS office is not a bombproof solution.

 

Ther N220 has a Linux boot option that is suposed to be better/quicker for web browsing (its been mentioned above) but I haven't bothered with it yet. I found that I could turn on the machine, drink my first glass of Ouzo and by the time I'd done that, - the machine was ready for me to start mucking about.

 

The l0.5" screen is "OK" but by the time you've got a couple of menu bars there's not a lot of space for work. I find I'm scrolling up and down a lot, - particulalry in talktalk webmail which seems to have so much standing information on the page, there's very little room for the text of the email. (Particularly noticeable after the Ouzo)

 

Otherwise I find the smallness of the unit very convenient.

 

One snag I haven't resolved yet is that the N220 charger is rated at 250 watts and wont run off my 300watt inverter. Wifey's 15" Dell Laptop has a similar power requirement and works off the inverter without a shrug.

 

So If you're planning to charge your new device off your leisure batteries, as opposed to mains, - check you have the kit that will work!

[Guest JudgeMental]

well this morning I bought a 14 inch Lenova thinkpad, unusually for a ultra portable it has a separate graphics card and DVD drive,

 

it is on offer ending 25th Novemeber for £350 originally nearly £600. My IT chap says it is a stonking deal at the price. it is this model.....

 

Lenovo IdeaPad U450p - M23L9UK - Dark Brown

 

http://www.lenovo.com/uk/en/

 

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/ww/products/lifestyle/ideapad/u-series/index.html

[Brian Kirby]

RogerGW - 2010-11-24 6:58 AM ....................... (BTW, Microsoft Money was discontinued in June last year.) I think people get the picture. I won't flog this expired equine any further. 8=) Roger

Roger, sorry if my comments seemed dismissive.  It wasn't the intention, but when I read what you had written, my heart sank.  I have been using computers, non-technically, since well into the DOS era, and couldn't understand the half of what you had written in technical terms.

Most of your recommendations I wouldn't contemplate experimenting with, because I don't understand what is involved, and I stay clear of anything on computers that takes me into the realms of free downloads from unknown (to me) producers. 

That is not a criticism of what you said, it is simply a statement on the extent of my knowledge (and some poor souls ask even me for help!).  So, my assumption of the OP's computer knowledge was that it would be somewhat less than mine.

You will, I am sure, say that these are all fine or you wouldn't recommend them, and they may well be, but forgive me, I don't know you, your level of expertise, or what detailed knowledge of the products you may have, or of their compatibility with other programmes.

Thanks for the information on MS Money, my copy is Money '97, and is running quite happily under Vista without using compatibility mode (which is to say if it is, Vista has selected it and it's nothing to do with me! :-))

Re the location from which the standing orders etc might be set up, I guess those who use internet banking possibly would do this from home.  I'm afraid I did it by going into the branch with a form, of which I kept a copy, and asking them to set it up.  I interfere with our accounts online as little as possible because, being a Luddite, I don't trust the banks' assurances about their security systems!

[Guest JudgeMental]

JudgeMental - 2010-11-24 12:57 PM

 

well this morning I bought a 14 inch Lenova thinkpad, unusually for a ultra portable it has a separate graphics card and DVD drive,

 

it is on offer ending 25th Novemeber for £350 originally nearly £600. My IT chap says it is a stonking deal at the price. it is this model.....

 

Lenovo IdeaPad U450p - M23L9UK - Dark Brown

 

http://www.lenovo.com/uk/en/

 

http://shop.lenovo.com/us/ww/products/lifestyle/ideapad/u-series/index.html

 

 

Just a reminder. anyone in the market for a decent spec travel laptop this is a good deal and offer ends today, remember attached review is at the original £600 price not the offer price of £350....mine is on the way:-D

 

 

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/pc-mac/laptops-portable-pcs/laptops-and-netbooks/lenovo-ideapad-u450p-656036/review#

[RogerGW]

Brian Kirby - 2010-11-24 3:22 PM

Roger, sorry if my comments seemed dismissive. It wasn't the intention....

Thanks for that, Brian. You have a PM.> ...I stay clear of anything on computers that takes me into the realms of free downloads from unknown (to me) producers.Would you feel more comfortable if you knew other people think? If so, try CNET (see http://download.cnet.com/windows/ ), the Web site of a large publishing group. You can read what ordinary users think of a product, how many times it has been downloaded and, if it's been tested, what CNET thinks of it.There's some good -- and often free -- software around, often without an equivalent from the major suppliers. (They've managed to brainwash many people into thinking that only their products are any good and are to be trusted. If only!)> ...I don't know you, your level of expertise, or what detailed knowledge of the products you may have...But you expected people to accept your advice, even though you now admit your knowledge to be limited. Motes and beams. 8=)Slightly out-of-date herogram here -- http://tinyurl.com/3xap8f6 .I use everything I suggested except AVG (I prefer NOD ESET, which I pay for). Also, everything* I suggested is mentioned favourably on CNET.*Except Force-CLS add-in, which isn't a freestanding program. That's certified by the Mozilla Foundation, which produces Firefox. (There have been over 25 million downloads of Firefox from CNET alone. It's not what you'd call obscure.)> ...or of their compatibility with other programmes.All the Windows programs (note the spelling) that I use work together fine.Linux and Windows are different worlds. As I said, you can get Linux versions of many Windows products or, if not, near equivalents. You can also run some Windows (and Macintosh) software within Linux, using WINE, etc. (You can also run Linux on Macs. OS X has a similar lineage to it.)As I also mentioned, file conversion is not always perfect but, then, Microsoft sometimes can't do proper conversions among different releases of its own products. If you don't have the latest versions of MS Office, for instance, you can't even read their output on earlier Office software. You have to download separate converters or readers, which sometimes don't operate with complete fidelity.Roger

[RogerGW]

snail - 2010-11-21 9:42 AM

 

...we have a 5year old laptop and looking for a replacement, am impressed by the size and battery life of these netbooks, questions are

laptop or netbook?

Hello Brian,

 

I'm sure you've been following the discussion avidly and with close attention [VBG]. I'd like to suggest a different approach, that might be of interest to other people, too.

 

Among its various faults and merits, Linux has the great virtue of being very efficient compared with Microsoft Windows. For this reason, people often use it to prolong the active life of old computers, especially those with meagre resources by today's standards.

 

If I were in your shoes, therefore, I'd think about putting Linux on your old laptop. (That assumes it's OK in other respects -- keyboard, display, etc.) You could save yourself several hundred pounds by doing so.

 

Now, before you throw up your hands in horror, I'd like to make a suggestion to you that commits you to a very small expenditure, is safe for your machine and won't require you to know anything you already don't.

 

1. The current edition of the magazine "Linux Format" has a DVD with it that contains the latest version of Ubuntu, a very popular kind of Linux. Cost = £6.49.

 

2. Back up all your data, just to be on the safe side. (You do anyway, don't you? Of course you do.)

 

3. Put the DVD in your machine and turn it off. Turn it on again, and you'll see a short menu inviting you to run Ubuntu (or a couple of variants of it) or your existing Windows operating software.

 

4. Select Ubuntu and press enter. Ubuntu will load itself and then run from the DVD. It puts nothing permanent on your hard drive. (It's slow in loading 'cos it's running from a DVD drive.)

 

5. You can then see for yourself whether it's to your taste.

 

If it's not, close Ubuntu. remove the DVD and tun off your machine. Turn it on again and there's Windows just as before.

 

6. The version the publisher has put on the disc has many optional addition programs on it, which you open and play with just as in Windows.

 

There's a list here -- http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/features . The DVD version comes loaded with all the 'included' software and much of the 'supported' software. You won't have to engage in hand-to-hand combat with obscure commands.

 

7. If you do like it, go back into Ubuntu and ask it to install itself. In doing so, it will set aside some disc space for its own use (aka a partition), so you'll need room for it. You would then be able to choose Ubuntu or Windows when you start the machine in future.

 

Alternatively, if you're sure you want to use it instead of Windows, it will completely take over the hard drive (a further reason for backing up data).

 

8. You can download Ubuntu free from the Web but it's a 700Mb file and won't have all the extra programs. You'd need to get them separately.

 

If this doesn't appeal, I'm sorry to have taken up your time.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[ips]

OK lets keep it simple...............ahem

 

If you dont need a cd drive cos mainly browsing or email then a netbook, if you need to play / load cd or dvd then a laptop. simples...

 

(I have a laptop mrs ips has a netbook so have experience of both)

[Guest JudgeMental]

Errr.....NO a laptop also is a fully functional compact computer, with plenty of memory/ram/ graphics card/ etc...etc... and probably just as importantly a decent processor for speed?

[ips]

Yes but if there only browsing etc then do they need all that speed / memory ?

We use mrs ips's MSI netbook at home and away in van and find it quite acceptable for that sort of use.

[Ian0354]

I'd love to ask which of the, way too bloated, programs you use that need more than the facilities of this NC10? This has about 100 times the processing power that NASA had to design and place rockets into earth orbit. I run Office 2007 for writing and accounting needs along with Paintshop Pro for simple photo editing plus Navigator 4.4.40 for route planning and GPS, VOIP software, Google Earth, Firefox and loads more. I don't know and so won't presume to guess other's usage but very few people use anything like the capabilities available but have to have the "latest and greatest" just because manufacturers say we need them. The only use really I see for greater power is perhaps if working on RAW format photography when a larger screen would also be a benefit. I have used computers since the Commodore Vic 20 came out in the very early 1980's and have had the "latest and greatest" through the years, both through business and hobby, and have now been through the liberating realisation of what is actually needed and now am enjoying the compact nature of this machine although I will conceed that sometimes having to use a remote optical drive can be a of a pain, but then again no more than the back-up hard-drive is. IMO the Netbook is a great developement, this is testified by it's huge popularity. It is perfect for travelling. Again, IMO, most Laptop buyers make their purchase through over-estimating both their needs and their capabilities. Gadget buying was ever thus!

 

So my vote is Netbook.

[PCC]

Just to add to JudgeMental's comments, the Lenovo also has a full size keyboard that feels superb, certainly better than any other laptop I've used. Price is at the mid point of the Samsung netbooks so certainly good value for money. No brainer in my view.

 

Just to go back to the question about anti virus programs - as I've said before, Microsoft Security Essentials is free, unobtrusive (you forget that it's there) and very highly rated.

[Brian Kirby]

RogerGW - 2010-11-25 12:36 PM

Brian Kirby - 2010-11-24 3:22 PM

Roger, sorry if my comments seemed dismissive. It wasn't the intention....

Thanks for that, Brian. You have a PM. > .........Roger

Thank you for your further comments, and the PM, Roger.

Sorry about questioning your credentials.  I'm afraid I have suffered a few times at the hands of people who claimed computer expertise, and turned out to know rather less than they claimed, including one notorious technician before I retired who could screw up anyone's computer given half an hour!  So just caution born of experience.  :-)  I expect you'll get all the computer queries on the forum from now on!  Oh dear!

As to my advice, it was merely intended to be helpful, and was, I trust, not actually wrong?  I hope I did not appear to be claiming expertise, it is certainly not a claim I would choose make on my own behalf.

Program?  I noted that you were using the American spelling, is that important?

I agree the latest versions of the Office software can be a bit of a drag, I usually just save them as the '97 version if sending to others.  Seems to work OK.

However, none of the above will be of much use to the OPs, so apologies to them for digressing.

[Guest JudgeMental]

PCC - 2010-11-25 5:56 PM

 

Just to add to JudgeMental's comments, the Lenovo also has a full size keyboard that feels superb, certainly better than any other laptop I've used. Price is at the mid point of the Samsung netbooks so certainly good value for money. No brainer in my view.

 

Just to go back to the question about anti virus programs - as I've said before, Microsoft Security Essentials is free, unobtrusive (you forget that it's there) and very highly rated.

 

well it arrived today in less then 24 hours, a cracking piece of kit....Mrs M loves me again (she thinks its for her:D)

 

 

[RogerGW]

Brian Kirby - 2010-11-25 6:24 PM

Program?  I noted that you were using the American spelling, is that important?

Going even further off topic. 8=)

 

It's the convention both here and there when discussing software. The ending differs when used in other contexts, such as radio.

 

Two hundred or so years ago, "program" was the normal British spelling, especially in Scotland. Thomas Carlyle and Walter Scott used it, for instance.

 

The Frenchified ending took over in the 19th century, although British English still uses the simpler ending for such analogous constructions as anagram, diagram and telegram. All are from Greek, of course.

 

Roger

[Brian Kirby]

Ah.  I asked because the dictionary suggests either spelling in all contexts.  Funny old world, ain't it?

[tonyishuk]

In ten years (or so !) time, we will be asking the same spelling questions but throw in the curl ball of " Is it chinese - american OR chinese - english spelling ? (!)

 

Rgds

[Brian Kirby]

More likely to be is it Mandarin or Cantonese, without the English!  :-D