Brian Kirby Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Armadillo - 2010-12-31 12:49 PM Thanks for that. We used to have a Honda 125 motorbike, but changed up to the 250 as we got nowhere fast on the other one, and often found ourselves doing bum-numbing round trips of 100 miles. It doesn't matter as much to me what we look like as it does to my husband! Unfortunately, compromise seems to be the name of the game. At least we can get the layout we want in our conversion. Can't have everything! Hope you won't think me rude, buy why, if you have a motorhome, are you travelling 100 miles on a small moped/motorbike. That must be well over two hours (three?) in the saddle? Surely it would be easier just to shift the van 25 miles down the road, and halve the distance travelled on the bike, even if that means leaving the van in a car park while you explore, and then driving on to your next overnight location? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Thats not the point Brian, You can get to places on motorcycles that are simply not accessible with a 4 wheeled vehicle, you also enjoy the fresh air, can see plants growing alongside and FEEL ALIVE . We have frequently done well over 100 miles pottering about exploring in a day. If you aint a biker then you won,t understand! C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Clive wrote: "I am sure there are many other equally competant companies. I am not sure it Pete Spreadbury will do it as a one off but he is well worth asking (PWS) ." See one of my earlier posts above. He told me that a standard Witter type bar will be OK; he's fitted a lot on panel vans and seems to discount the manufacturers 100kg limit in my case. He explained the reason why but lost me along the way. If he's right then the OP would not have a problem and neither would I. But as I said previously I am unconvinced but if anybody technically minded can explain how a 145 kgs load (bike plus rack) can be fitted onto a vehicle where the manufacturers towball limit is 100kgs I (and no doubt the OP )will be eternally grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 OK, but 100 mile off-road round trips? You have to be joking!Most settlements have roads, and vehicles the size of a Tranny can negotiate most roads, which is why they are the size they are.When the road runs out, get the boots on, and feel really alive, not only being able to see the plants, but also smell them and hear the dicky birds as well - at least until some prat on a smelly motorbike drones up the path frightening all the dicky birds and filling that lovely fresh air with rancid exhaust fumes! :-D Isn't the Stothert with you? I'm sure he'll get my drift! :-)Not something everyone can participate in, I freely admit, but not, IMO, a truly convincing reason for travelling so far on a small bike. I remain, Sir, your unrepentant servant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 We have to agree:-D orrible, dirty, smelly noisey things.....E bikes all the way for us! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 100 miles off road, where did that come from Brian? Personally we never do more than about 60 miles, round trip, a lot of the time only a few miles. It depends on the way you use your van, as I have said many times, do not like aires much so often stay on one site for 3/4 days. having the bike we can explore and walk a fair bit around the site without constantly moving the van. For example if we go to the Tarn Gorge can stay around the middle and cover the whole thing easily from one site, lots of places like this. A scooter has become indespensible to us and we do walk a lot, more than most I would guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 rupert123 - 2010-12-31 9:18 PM 100 miles off road, where did that come from Brian? ........ From the exchange between Angela, Clive and me, starting about four posts up. Angela referred to posterior numbing 100 mile trips. I queried why they didn't simply move their van along a bit to reduce the mileage, and Clive replied that the bike is more or less indispensable for reaching places inaccessible to four wheeled vehicles. Since I reckon to be able to reach most four wheeled accessible places in our van, and Angela's will be a Tranny conversion even more capable, I took Clive to mean that in Angela's shoes he'd only use his bike off road (though in truth I know our van, or Angela's Transit, can reach places Clive's could never get to :-)). I thought this an entirely specious argument, so said so. In truth, it's all about finding excuses to go chugging around on two wheels, and has nothing whatever to do with admiring the wildlife!! Geriatric rockers, that's what you lot are. :-) Why not just admit you enjoy it, and stop inventing spurious justifications. :-D I'll get me own coat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Maybe you are right Brian. In any case am off to Beddgelert Bridge now to see in the new year and packing my car tomorrow, off to the Alps Sunday for a few weeks skiing. So happy new year to one and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Mike88 - 2010-12-31 6:29 PM Clive wrote: "I am sure there are many other equally competant companies. I am not sure it Pete Spreadbury will do it as a one off but he is well worth asking (PWS) ." See one of my earlier posts above. He told me that a standard Witter type bar will be OK; he's fitted a lot on panel vans and seems to discount the manufacturers 100kg limit in my case. He explained the reason why but lost me along the way. If he's right then the OP would not have a problem and neither would I. But as I said previously I am unconvinced but if anybody technically minded can explain how a 145 kgs load (bike plus rack) can be fitted onto a vehicle where the manufacturers towball limit is 100kgs I (and no doubt the OP )will be eternally grateful. Re-posting this just to get this thread back to the original subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armadillo Posted January 1, 2011 Author Share Posted January 1, 2011 Until this summer we have always had (in our opinion, anyway) "quality" motorhomes which we would not dream of leaving on some random carpark while we got the bike out for a pootle around, or to get to the start of what are often remote day long mountain walks. The security of the campsite is paramount.We love exploring and admittedly the 100 miles round trip was an extreme example but it did rather stick in the mind! These are not off -road miles, wrong sort of bike and another can of worms altogether. You just can't beat a motorbike for really getting into the heart of somewhere. We find a suitable campsite and just go out from there as far and wide as we can. 99% of our motorhoming has been done abroad, France and Spain in particular, and the remoteness of the places we favour means that we do need a bike with a reasonable fuel tank size aswell. P.S. Geriatrics................how dare you! You are only as old as you feel!!http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/images/emoticons/icon_lol.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armadillo Posted January 1, 2011 Author Share Posted January 1, 2011 Clive - 2010-12-31 4:00 PM OK, I am sat on a camp site with the Hurrell and a couple of others and Dave said that if your tranny is similar to his it has the capability to take the weight but not with that rack or via the standard tow coupling. The rear overhang is small so the de-rating because of overhang is not too significant. You need to speak to someone who does chassis extensions and to make you a suitable rack. We did something very similar to hang two small motorbikes on the back of our previous Sprinter based Autotrail Scout. The firm who did this work were Newark Vehicle Bodies. I would recommend them. I am sure there are many other equally competant companies. I am not sure it Pete Spreadbury will do it as a one off but he is well worth asking (PWS) . Also ask Dave,s firm as they do a lot of bespoke work as well. You might have to re-locate the spare wheel. Tke care and use a weighbridge first to be sure. Chive Clive, when you say get in touch with Dave's firm, do you mean Watling again? Happy New Year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 "Geriatric rockers, that's what you lot are", Not so much of the geriatric old man!! No, here on this site are ourselves, Hurrell and Di and Pete Johnson. Andy and Marrion are on a mission elsewhere. The freedom small motorcycles give you is immense, for example last year we stayed at the camp site at Fleurie for about a week, most of the days we explored the dirt roads all over the Beuujolais hills on our bikes, E bikes would not have had the range over the hilly terrain and our knees certainly not if we were pedaling. We were doing typically 80 miles each day without any sore backsides as it was not continuous riding, stopping to talk to the grape pickers as our interest in their harvesting was matched by their interest in our bikes. Motorhomers are a diverse bunch of people and we all have our own individual ways of enjoying them. Back to that rack, yes give watling a ring. The rack they did for Hurry was bespoke. Its best to take the bike with you for the first measuring up session as the bike needs to be a snug to the back of the van as possible to minimise rear overhang. Happy new year to all Chive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Clive - 2011-01-01 11:27 AM ......... Motorhomers are a diverse bunch of people and we all have our own individual ways of enjoying them. ............ Chive Dead right, and long may it be so! BTW, are you fresh, or chopped and dried? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Its not the rack that is the problem; they can be picked up from many places. The problem is getting around the manufacturers towball limit which on a panel van is limited to 125kg on a Transit and 100kg for a Fiat. As I have previously stated Watling might make one up but how do they know what the weight limit will be? How do they know if the limit on their one off towbar can be any better than a standard Witter? As its a one off they will not have tested the weight capability surely? And for a one off rack the spare wheel will have to be relocated which is not a great prospect. As I've said PWS whom Clive mentioned (I think I spoke to somebody called Dave) states that a Witter type towbar could be fitted on a panel van and that there was no problem exceeding the manufacturers weight limit of 125kg for a Transit and 100kg for a Fiat. I did not understand the technical explanation he gave and hoped somebody else could produce a justification for such a statement. At that point the thread drifted into the plusses and minuses of bike ownership. If the original poster could fit a standard Witter towbar, coupled with a scooter rack weighing around 30kg then surely that would be the solution to his problem providing that the rear axle weight will not be overloaded. Perhaps the first step should be for the OP to speak to PWS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Mike we have been all through this max weight on tow hitch before and at some time you will have to trust what the engineers from the various companies are telling you otherwise forget about ever putting a scooter on a rack. However back to the beginning. Fiat give two weights depending on the van, one 100kg, one 120kg but this weight is the maximum tow hook weight. No one is suggesting you hang a trailor rack on a tow ball. The tow ball on a Fiat is often an extended one, with their standard setup, so is limited to what it can take. in my handbook their are drawings and fitting recommendations for the Fiat setup but this is nothing like my own one which is far stronger. My van has chassis extensions as standard and these are the same size as the main chassis surely you do not think this is only capable of taking a 100kg, hope not. If your van does not have a chassis right to the rear any decent company can sort it out, not exactly a major engineering exercise. If your van has extensions that are not full size they may need to be strengthened, again an easy job. Not sure what guarantees you need if you are not prepared to trust a company who states it can do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Rupert. Yes we have been down this road before and at the end of our exchange you said that you did not realise I had a panel van and I thought that was it as all your posts related to your coachbuilt van. I do accept what engineers tell me to a degree but would like to understand what they say. PWS told me that I could have a standard Witter bar and a scooter rack to carry a 114kg scooter to hang on the back (not a trailer or Easylifter) and to disregard the 100kg limit providing I was OK on axle weights. Do I accept this engineers explanation? I remain confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Henry's (Rupert 123) van is a Swift, is built on a chassis-cab unit, and so has a conventional chassis to which to a chassis extension can be attached. It is fairly common for extensions to be made to chassis-cab units, and his Fiat chassis doubtless has designated attachment points for extensions with load limits as appropriate. Providing the whole of the designated load addition has not been absorbed by the rack and bike, there should also be some remaining free load capacity to absorb "normal" loads from the van itself.Angela's van will be a pvc, and will not have the extendable chassis. That is a big difference. It is not usual for a basically monocoque, and therefore chassisless, panel van to need a "chassis" extension for any reason other than attachment of a towbar. This has been catered for within the design, but is subject to load restrictions at the mounting points. It is possible there may be alternative mounting points, or additional mounting points, that would permit greater loads to be attached, which towbar designers would not know about.My suggestion would be for Angela to get hold of the Ford Transit Body and Equipment Mounting Manual (BEMM) for her model of Transit, and see what it says about chassis adaptations. The BEMM can be downloaded free from Ford's commercial vehicles website. It may not answer all the questions, but it should at least help to refine the questions, which could then be passed back up to Ford's vehicle converter technical department. I found them moderately helpful with odd queries, but with a pronounced desire to charge for information. You may also find Dave Newell is able to help, as I believe he knows his way round Ford UK a lot better than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 For a rack capable of taking that 250cc bike you do NOT want to start with any standard tow bar system. It aint strong enough. Its a properly designed rear chassis type extension you require with wide apart mounts. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Clive - 2011-01-01 2:20 PM For a rack capable of taking that 250cc bike you do NOT want to start with any standard tow bar system. It aint strong enough. Its a properly designed rear chassis type extension you require with wide apart mounts. C. I would totally agree with this Clive and the original poster will have to re-think the bike. However although mine is a coachbuilt the extensions look to be Fiat ones and simply bolt to the original chassis. I was referring back to Mike's van and although he has a Mondial would have thought the chassis goes pretty close to the rear, personally never looked so may not be the case. My towbar is also not a standard one and again I agree would not start with a standard one that is designed for a trailor. Mikes main problem seems to be a lack of trust with the firms he has spoken to who say they can do the job. I understand this but in the end you have to decide, do you trust someone or not, if not then forget having a scooter rack. If the rear extension is not a full chassis weight one then it is a pretty simple calculation for any half competant engineer to work out what is needed and modify as required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Rupert wrote: "Mikes main problem seems to be a lack of trust with the firms he has spoken to who say they can do the job. I understand this but in the end you have to decide, do you trust someone or not, if not then forget having a scooter rack because a standard fit towbar is probably not going to do the job." Rupert. You clearly have not understood my posts. I'm being told that a standard Witter towball will do the job and it is this that I'm unsure about although I must admit I am not totally convinced by a purpose built one either but would be prepared to accept one of these if it did not require me to lose the spare wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyrider Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I will be off to the iom in august for the mgp in our legend auto-sleeper with small trail bike (serow) i got the bike rack from dave cooper racks cant wait for the trip B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob b Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I agree that a motorbike is ideal for exploring the out of the way places. My original motorbike was a 125 cc Honda 'off road' bike and I had lots of fun exploring Spain and portugal on it. I'd get to a campsite and stay put for a while and explore on the bike. There was a small rack on the back and I'd carry a small knapsack on my back. After a few days I'd study the guide book and map for somewhere of interest, then move on.I had fun riding along 'drovers' roads in the hills and 'scrambling' down to deserted coves for a dip in the briny. The 125cc bike has been replaced by a Honda Deauville, which means I have to forgo the offroad exploring, but I can explore a lot further in a day and in great comfort.I attach a picture taken in the hills above the Algarve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob b Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 I should add that my towbar was designed and fitted by Watling, but I have always trailed my bikes. The only drawback I've encountered is the dearer ferry fees. Towing the trailer has been given me any problems whatsoever.I've got no desire to tow a caravan Rupert, I like the motorhome and bike combo!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawcara Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Been following this thread from an interest point of view. I am surprised that manufacturers do not look at the whole issue of 'rear end payload', motorcycle racks and the like. There seems a great of different ideas, ezetow, easylifter, rack, trailer. It would seem that motorcycle manufacturers are attempting to keep weights low for these purposes at least. What trailer does Bob W use(?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Hi Just to add my tuppencworth. Started towing a bike 20 months ago - i hve to tow as bike weighs in at just over 200kgs - so far towed about 13000 miles including all round Italy, N spain, france, switzerland. the only problem was a puncture in Florence - i had a spare and the camp site arranged for tyre to be fixed. Best thing we ever did - i take bike places i would never take the van + parking in cities is a doddle. Also we found in Dolomites that many car parks have height barriers, even some for cable cars, - when we just took m/home a couple of times we had to pay campsites just to park up for a few hours! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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